Strange eBay auctions for Civilians

scullshoalk · #61

The listing is back on e-bay but the buy it now price is $59.99.

LorenzoL · #62

From a different seller but with the same pictures and description...

Netsquash · #63

eBay ended up sending me an email suggesting this user was phishing for information in our communications. It's kinda funny because I was the one doing the phishing as a means of getting to see if they were legit. I asked for a phone number, which the said they could not afford the bill. Then I asked for them to talk to me on Skype, or Yahoo, or MSN, or AOL and they said they did not know how to use them. That is where the bull **** was 100% clear as opposed to the 99% that I suspected before. If you can post a ebay listing you can use MSN.

Bluntrauma · #64

Yeah I sent emails to the other seller earlier and by the time I checked again they had been banned. So looks like they're back under another ID. I'm reporting this one too. This **** burns me up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Spyderco-Civilian-G ... 2|294%3A50

Netsquash · #65

I think the seller, tmf1481, for this new auction was one of the buyers listing feedback for the original seller. I am also pretty sure this account was being used to drive the price up on my bid on one of the items. It makes sense now why the seller of the auction sent me an email this morning telling me that I was outbid and that I should go make another bid if I want to win it. They were driving the prices up by their own means.

Why do they think they can get away with this?

scullshoalk · #66

Listing removed, what a mess. Great Job by this boards members alerting e-bay.

LorenzoL · #67

I think this time it was the cross-bidding that Netsquash pointed out that did them in.

Clawhammer · #68

Netsquash wrote:I think the seller, tmf1481, for this new auction was one of the buyers listing feedback for the original seller. I am also pretty sure this account was being used to drive the price up on my bid on one of the items. It makes sense now why the seller of the auction sent me an email this morning telling me that I was outbid and that I should go make another bid if I want to win it. They were driving the prices up by their own means.

Why do they think they can get away with this?

Because everyone is getting away with it :mad:
See my post #48
Running the bids is illegal everywhere but eBay.

LorenzoL · #69

Shilling is totally illegal on eBay, the problem is that it is difficult to identify and prove because you have to establish a connection between two members. Here it was easy because both members had very few completed transactions and because they were stupid doing it at the same time as running a scam.

Bluntrauma · #70

LorenzoL wrote:Shilling is totally illegal on eBay, the problem is that it is difficult to identify and prove because you have to establish a connection between two members. Here it was easy because both members had very few completed transactions and because they were stupid doing it at the same time as running a scam.

Hey Lorenzol good eye. When I looked at the name of the 2nd seller last night it looked familiar, but I didn't make the connection until you said what you did. I remember seeing the name as a bidder on scumbag number one. Ebay wrote me back and gave me their usual thank you for your report yada yada form letter.

LorenzoL · #71

It actually was Netsquash that spotted the cross buying and feedback, I just reported it to eBay like many other members here. It should be easy to spot these guys in the future unless they smarten up and finally post a different picture for those Civilians (actually, I do not even think they have more than one Civilian, so they could try their scam with a different model). Let's keep our eyes open for suspicious multiple listings...

Bluntrauma · #72

I hear you! I usually make it a habit every morning to check new listings. That's how I have caught a few of these and reported.

Something else I see a lot and wonder if others have noticed. You will see a knife up for auction, maybe even have it in your watched items. The auction ends with whatever the final price was. Then, the next day you see the same item, same pic and description back up.

I have seen that quite a few times. I guess it could be explained by the buyer backing out but in 24 hours? Seems more like a seller w/multiple accounts trying to run the price of his own item up and got stuck with it. Thoughts?

The Deacon · #73

Bluntrauma wrote:Something else I see a lot and wonder if others have noticed. You will see a knife up for auction, maybe even have it in your watched items. The auction ends with whatever the final price was. Then, the next day you see the same item, same pic and description back up.

I have seen that quite a few times. I guess it could be explained by the buyer backing out but in 24 hours? Seems more like a seller w/multiple accounts trying to run the price of his own item up and got stuck with it. Thoughts?

Whether or not a scenario like that would raise any red flags for me would depend somewhat on the item being auctioned and the seller. If it's something NIB, it could just be a case where a person purchased multiples of a discontinued item at closeout prices, held on to them for a while, then put one up on eBay. When it fetched a good price they decided to list another right away using the same photos and text. Could also be a dealer who just finds it better not to have multiple auctions going for the same item. I wouldn't consider any of those to be suspicious. But, if it's a used item, then that would be a red flag, especially if the bidding pattern in the first auction had been something along the line of "A" bid once, then "B" bid multiple times, each one raising their bid one increment.

That said, add me to the list of people that think the anonymous bids (aka "the eBay shill bidder protection program") are a very bad idea.

Bluntrauma · #74

The Deacon wrote:Whether or not a scenario like that would raise any red flags for me would depend somewhat on the item being auctioned and the seller. If it's something NIB, it could just be a case where a person purchased multiples of a discontinued item at closeout prices, held on to them for a while, then put one up on eBay. When it fetched a good price they decided to list another right away using the same photos and text. Could also be a dealer who just finds it better not to have multiple auctions going for the same item. I wouldn't consider any of those to be suspicious. But, if it's a used item, then that would be a red flag, especially if the bidding pattern in the first auction had been something along the line of "A" bid once, then "B" bid multiple times, each one raising their bid one increment.

That said, add me to the list of people that think the anonymous bids (aka "the eBay shill bidder protection program") are a very bad idea.

Hey Deacon I probably should have been more specific. I think like you do on new items. The ones that have stood out to me are older knives with the exact same blemishes or things that make it stand out as kind of a one of a kind knife that you know is the exact same one. Sorry for not being clearer. :D

yablanowitz · #75

I think they instituted the shill protection program to replace the seller feedback hostage program. Not letting sellers leave negative feedback is pretty lame, but I personally have seen a huge increase in shipping speed on my purchases. Fewer sellers seem inclined to wait a week or two to ship when the buyer can leave negative feedback without reprisal.

CombatGrappler · #76

yablanowitz wrote:I think they instituted the shill protection program to replace the seller feedback hostage program. Not letting sellers leave negative feedback is pretty lame, but I personally have seen a huge increase in shipping speed on my purchases. Fewer sellers seem inclined to wait a week or two to ship when the buyer can leave negative feedback without reprisal.

Apparently some sellers get a discount on fees if they get 5 stars on all the feedback questions. I recently bought a Tilley hat on eBay and received it promptly. It had a letter thanking me for the purchase and stating point by point why they should receive 5 stars on all the questions. They were right and I rated them all 5's.

By the way...love the hat!

LorenzoL · #77

The rating issue is a delicate one. I do not like to rate sellers that do not leave feedback for me first. My reasoning is that if I pay promptly I have fulfilled my end of the deal, and therefore I should be rated positively, regardless of the fact that I leave the seller a feedback or not.
Of course, I understand the opposite argument that says that if a seller rates the buyer straight away, then most buyers just "forget" to rate or, in some extreme cases, give an unwarranted negative rating.
What do you guys think, am I wrong?

yablanowitz · #78

For me, the seller leaving feedback first is the difference between excellent and perfect in my comments. Prompt payment is not the only factor involved in rating a buyer. They must receive their purchase, examine it and accept it or reject it before their part of the transaction is complete. I appreciate a seller with the confidence to leave feedback first in the belief that he has done everything in his power to make me happy. On the other hand, my feedback is how he knows that he has succeeded or failed to do so.

LorenzoL · #79

I remember once buying a knife from an eBay store and waiting for the seller to rate me in order for me to rate him. After a couple of weeks, I receive this e-mail through eBay saying something like: "Please remember to leave feedback for me so I can leave feedback for you...". That really p++++ed me off, so I replied that I would not rate first. The seller replied that he was not aware of that message I received and that it must have been an automated eBay message. He never left feedback and neither did I.

The Deacon · #80

When I was buying a lot on eBay, I made it a habit to leave feedback the day I received the item, unless there was an issue which needed to be resolved with the seller. About 50% of the seller's had left feedback for me already, 40% left it after I left mine, and 10% just plumb forgot. If I bought again from someone who'd neglected to reciprocate, I'd mention that in the feedback for the new item. :D

Funny how things work sometimes, but now that I have more time and am buying less, I've gotten sloppy and have occasionally forgotten to leave feedback. :o