Sal, can we have a knife that is legal for New York

[The Deacon]

And my one point is, that unless there is some tangible evidence that the definition of a gravity knife has been further twisted by NYC to include non-locking folders, such knives aready exist - the UK Penknife, DK Penknife, and Pride - and that another, the Urban will join them in the near future. Take the clip off any of them, drop it in your pocket, and your safe.

My other point was that it is difficult enough to design a knife to comply with a clearly written, uniformly interpreted, and correctly enforced law. Designing one to comply with the ever changing creative interpretations of a less than perfectly written one, and the failure of the courts to see that for the travesty of justice that it is, would be like shooting at a moving target while blindfolded.

[Blue72]

wether its locking or non-locking, it has nothing to do with it being declared a "gravity knife"

I agree a new design is hard to cover all the changing laws, but there is a market for it, if not why make a UKPK.

Maybe this knife should incorporate a few things to meet several cities strict knife laws, like a blade under 2 and half inches so it can be carried in Boston as well.

I agree that it is impossible to create a knife to comply with laws because many knife laws are very vague. However I am sure there are plenty of people who want a knife to minimize the risk

[The Deacon]

wether its locking or non-locking, it has nothing to do with it being declared a "gravity knife"

I repectfully, but emphatically, disagree. New York State law may be vague enough as to allow creative misinterpretation as to how much centrifugal force is needed to open the knife, where that force must be applied, and how reliably the knife has to reach battery when flicked. But it is crystal clear on the point that the blade, once fully opened, must LOCK in place. I am sorry, but I cannot imagine any judge ignoring that.

[Blue72]

I repectfully, but emphatically, disagree. New York State law may be vague enough as to allow creative misinterpretation as to how much centrifugal force is needed to open the knife, where that force must be applied, and how reliably the knife has to reach battery when flicked. But it is crystal clear on the point that the blade, once fully opened, must LOCK in place. I am sorry, but I cannot imagine any judge ignoring that.

As someone who comes from the law field, I can tell you that laws are interpreted differently by each judge.

If a knife can be declared a gravity knife by flicking it open, you can bet there is a judge out there that would declare a backspring a locking device

[cdf]

KOT , I have heard that most of these charges eminate from the Transit Authority PD , true or false ... Has anyone got drilled yet in an incident involving a multitool .... There are folders that lock both open and closed - the Paul knives , and CRKT has a couple .

I have a hard time believing an Urban , with a tight pivot would net you a bust . NYC must have a lot of room on their court dockets , to tie them up with chickenshipping charges like that !

Chris

PS , up here in Canuckastan in the late 70s they had a real hard on for Buck knives , ( which were being sold at Canadian Tire at the time ) . The fad died out .

[The Deacon]

As someone who comes from the law field, I can tell you that laws are interpreted differently by each judge.

If a knife can be declared a gravity knife by flicking it open, you can bet there is a judge out there that would declare a backspring a locking device

If that's the case, and enforcement of the law has become that whimsical in the City of New York, it would be an exercise in futility to even consider designing a knife to comply with it. I don't happen to think that's the case, but you obviously do, so I will not argue this any further.

OTOH, you might want to have a look at the Micro Dyad, the two blades "interfere" with one side of each other's holes enough to may grasping either one **** near impossible.

[CENTER]

[/CENTER]

[Vincent]

I carry my Military Daily? try that one


:rolleyes:

[Michael Bolton]

There was a really unfortuante incident on the uptown within the past year when a transit worker was jumped by a group of punk kids trying to rob him. I guess he was struck from behind when leaving the station and knocked to the ground. The group robbed him and then pulled a knife..the transit worker pulled a three inch fixed blade from a sheath and defended himself, two of the attackers were killed and the transit worker was charge with no crime. A statement from the police stated that it was clear he was defending himself. The nytimes also stated that he carried a fixed blade for the sole reason of protecting himself. He also holds a third degree black belt in jui jitsu. If you are planning on committing a crime I would definately suggest that one should not have anything that could be considered an illeagal weapon on them. But if it's for saftey or utilitarian reasons, pick a knife that doesn't look like a scary knife, keep it tucked away, be smart, and enjoy. I believe that the knife laws are intentionally vaugue so that the bad guys can get busted. For example, even if I were stopped for whatever random reason and a policeman found my lava on me I am not so concerned of being thrown in jail and have a subsequent record. I have no criminal record, I look like a nerd, I am a friendly guy, and I can readily prove that I use my lava in my studio, office, and day to day. The only blood it has drawn is my own when I accidentally cut my hand. Plus, tha lava looks about as puny as a pocket knife can get with a blade of around or just under two inches. Anyways, I just think that discussions about ny knife laws just spin around in circles. You can find a situation that supports one argument, then turn around and find another situation that supports the exact opposite.

[Michael Bolton]

I agree with the Deacon, as long as you're not planning committing a crime with the knife, or carrying it in the open, the UKPK or upcoming Urban seem totally A-ok for NYC carry. Yeah they can probably be Spydie dropped, but they don't lock open. Now that that is out of the way, it's up to the person carrying it to be responsible with it.

I definitely plan on getting an Urban when they finally do come out for my NYC EDC. My one question is: will the urban be an effective sd tool?

Maybe Mr Blonde can run some drills with it and give us a review when the urban sees the light of day (i mean retail-wise)

[VultureParade]

If that's the case, and enforcement of the law has become that whimsical in the City of New York, it would be an exercise in futility to even consider designing a knife to comply with it. I don't happen to think that's the case, but you obviously do, so I will not argue this any further.

I'm really going to have to agree with The Deacon on this one. I think the fact that the knife locks open is really crucial. I really find it hard to believe that a judge is going to nail someone to the wall for carrying a 2.5 inch orange pocket knife that doesn't lock.

But I don't doubt that we'll see something from Spyderco in the future that should fit the bill. Knife laws around the world are becoming stricter. But right now I don't know if there's much of a demand for an under 2" folder that can't be opened without using two hands.

And if the knife is being carried for defense, how effective is a 2" folder that can't be quickly deployed going to be? A 2" fixed blade like Le Shark by Fred Perrin would be a lot better and just as EDCable in a pocket sheath.

A 2" folder that doesn't open one handed would work fine for most utility chores, but I maintain the belief that the upcoming Urban, carried clipless in the pocket is the best way to go. If someone gets screwed over an orange clipless knife that doesn't lock, I fail to see how a new design would fair any better.

[Michael Bolton]

I absolutely agree. As far as knives go, a 2" non locking day-glo orange knife sounds pretty safe to me.

That kinda leads me to thing of the Lava...as a small SD knife, is there a way, design-wise to create something that would be effective for SD that doesn't lock, or would an SD knife require a string locking mechanism to be consuidered useful, or safe for the person holding it?

[Fred Sanford]

I agree 100% with Paul. No need to "create" a knife just for NYC. In fact, with all the BS I hear about people having problems with knives in NYC I would still carry one anyway if I ever went there. If they confiscate it for absolutely no reason I will fight it and fight it and fight it.

I actually have no interest to ever visit NYC, .......or LA. :)

[WOTANSON1]

I agree 100% with Paul. No need to "create" a knife just for NYC. In fact, with all the BS I hear about people having problems with knives in NYC I would still carry one anyway if I ever went there. If they confiscate it for absolutely no reason I will fight it and fight it and fight it.

I actually have no interest to ever visit NYC, .......or LA. :)

Come on David, NYC is a great place to visit! We New Yawka's are some of the friendliest buncha people ya eva wanna meet. Just because we are portrayed (as described by the comsumate New Yawka himself, Woody Allen)as a buncha Commie, Atheist, Jewish Pornographers doesn't make it true. I myself am neither an atheist, a communist, nor.........Jewish.(hey ain't no one perfect.) :) :rolleyes: :D :D :D :D
Cheers,
Rob

[Darkfin]

In any statute relating to knives and weapons in NYC or NYS, is the word "lock" or "locking knife" defined? E.g., §xxx.1 c. For the purpose of this statute, a locking knife is defined as one whose blade can not be closed without the manipulation of a button, lever, bar or some similar device to release the blade from its fully open position......

If not, I think that a Judge would have the latitude to interpret any blade that requires at least some force on it to get it to close as being "locked" open (e.g., UKPK).

In the law, one cannot assume that the publicly accepted definition for something that we take for granted is always the legal interpretation.

That said, there may be no way to comply with the OP's request in the most technical sense.

[bladese97]

:spyder: :spyder: :cool: :spyder: :spyder: Sorry to here about that dude; I thought knife laws in Mass were bad :rolleyes: I can easly flick mine, so I will assume the Poliwog is out :spyder: What about the Kiwi, and Kopa? I would think they would be difficult to flick'n drop, but.......Uh :confused: :D Hope things work out dude :)

[Medic]

This would be interesting, as I live 15 minutes outside of NY and go there often.

[Blue72]

I know that this thread is a few years old.

But now that spyderco will not sell any locking knives to New York. Will they consider designing a knife that cannot be spyder dropped?

I think a minor redesign to the back scale of the rock lobster might work

[ChrisR]

If NYC laws on gravity knives are like the ones here then the problem is not whether it can be freely opened - it is that it locks after being freely opened ... so SLIPITs would be legal. A Chicago-sized SLIPIT would be ideal because it already meets their laws.

If you want a locker to be NYC legal then that's much harder because it would have to be impossible to spydie-drop it AND impossible to shake the blade open ... and I have seen some guys with strong wrists who are able to shake open something pretty stiff like a UKPK. I think the only (im)practical way would be to force a 2-handed opening system ... like if you had to press 2 parts of the knife at the same time and those were impossible to reach in 1 hand. It's all a bit of a mess really

[MCM]

Might want to just carry one of these.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... s%3Disch:1

[Donut]

What is wrong with the non locking UKPK? If you keep your hand on the handle, it will not close.

If I was in New York, that would be my knife.