Sal, can we have a knife that is legal for New York

[Blue72]

I am sure you probably heard what is going on in New York. declaring any knife that can be held by the blade and flicked open or dropped is considered a "gravity knife" and people are getting arrested for it.

I was hoping you could come up with a knife for us New Yorkers that would have scales that would cover the blade of the knife so it could not be grabbed to be flicked open. But still have a cut out on one side of the scale for the spydie hole so you can still have a one handed operation.

[zenheretic]

They have one already. It is called the Ladybug. Darned near impossible to flick open, you can't carry it visibly, and I believe it is under the length limit. :D

[Episteme]

Maybe a Swick or SPOT? If my memory serves me correctly, small fixed blades are not listed as prohibited to wear on your person in NYC. Perhaps even a Ronin would pass (although ANY knife worn in NYC ought to be kept out-of-sight, for prudence sake if for anything.)
Also, my SS Standard (CO5) cannot be opened via gravity even in the Spyder-drop method because I had peened the pivot pin just tight enough so that it always falls short of locking during a Spyder-drop, but can be opened with the hole via thumb pressure just fine.
Models to stay away from include those which are liner locks or compression locks, as these open much more easily by way of 'gravity'.
Also, my FRN Dragonfly cannot be opened by way of Spyder-drop nor by wrist-flick. The small FRN handle is much too light-weight for this, and the lock-bar has a fairly robust action to it.
-Mike

[Blue72]

Maybe a Swick or SPOT? If my memory serves me correctly, small fixed blades are not listed as prohibited to wear on your person in NYC. Perhaps even a Ronin would pass (although ANY knife worn in NYC ought to be kept out-of-sight, for prudence sake if for anything.)
Also, my SS Standard (CO5) cannot be opened via gravity even in the Spyder-drop method because I had peened the pivot pin just tight enough so that it always falls short of locking during a Spyder-drop, but can be opened with the hole via thumb pressure just fine.
Models to stay away from include those which are liner locks or compression locks, as these open much more easily by way of 'gravity'.
Also, my FRN Dragonfly cannot be opened by way of Spyder-drop nor by wrist-flick. The small FRN handle is much too light-weight for this, and the lock-bar has a fairly robust action to it.
-Mike

I dont think you are trying hard enough because my ladybug and frn dragonfly both drop

[Michael Cook]

I dont think you are trying hard enough because my ladybug and frn dragonfly both drop

:spyder: Some will, some absolutely wont.

Any pinned pivot knife can be peened until it won't spydie drop. Why not just be discreet, stay out of trouble, understand you'll get a knife-ectomy if you do get in trouble and write your congressman and alder person and try to change the laws you deem unjust and unfair.

Capitulation is such an ugly thing, do something about these laws and you'll sleep better even if they aren't changed. :spyder:

[Dr. Snubnose]

They have one already. It is called the Ladybug. Darned near impossible to flick open, you can't carry it visibly, and I believe it is under the length limit. :D

I can flick the ladybug open with inertia...no problem....Doc :D [/
Want a knife you could carry in NYC without a hassel get a Ronin...... B]

[Bolster]

Still, I like the OP's suggestion of a knife that has the spyder hole accessible from one side only, so it can be thumbed open, but not spyder-dropped.

[Th232]

Perhaps have it so said hole cover could be swapped (held in place using the screw holes for a tip-down clip?), so that the lefties among us don't have issues with it.

[yablanowitz]

The solution is obvious. If you want to carry a knife in New York City, get a badge.

[mongatu]

Unfortunately, for most people, that's not a practical option.

The idea of the handle covering one side of the blade so the blade can't be grabbed onto seems a simple and easy to implement solution. I think it's a great idea and there could be a lefty and righty version.

[carrot]

Nowadays I usually carry my Dozier K-7. It's a short fixed blade, less than half an inch longer than a Delica, bladewise, and it carries very easily. If I'm wearing an untucked collared shirt or a regular loose fitting t-shirt, it's invisible. I can also access it very quickly. It is also fairly expensive, and a poor choice to be carrying when a knife-ectomy occurs.

I'd love to see Spyderco make something similiar in size to what a fixed blade Delica would be, with a bit of a friendlier, less pointy shape, maybe like a sheepsfoot wharnie but with the same gradual curve of a Delica4 for the edge (think similar to RJ Martin's new Zing). Give it a very small or no integral guard and it'll be quickly apparent it's not designed for stabbing or for use as a weapon. A Dozier-style sheath would be *perfect,* as my Dozier hides perfectly under a t-shirt and is quick and easy to draw, as well as being pretty fast to re-sheath. Something sheeple-friendly like white micarta, full-tang and an MSRP of $100 or less would make this model very appealing to me and hopefully other New York knife lovers. I understand that fixed blades cannot be "Spyder-dropped" and such a model wouldn't fit in "dirk or dagger" category either by nature of its design. It could be called the NY Utility, or something equally innocuous.

[zenheretic]

I can flick the ladybug open with inertia...no problem....Doc :D [/
Want a knife you could carry in NYC without a hassel get a Ronin...... B]

The flick fu is strong in this one.

[RLR]

I don't usually chime in on these, but it may advance my quest for a more traditional slip joint with a small spyderhole as a nail nick. Basically a traditional shape, like a trapper or something, with a nail nick around a small spyderhole. Traditional with high end materials, maintains copyrights and patents and all that.

[The Deacon]

Has there been an acutal, verifiable case of some being charged and convicted in New York City of possession of a gravity knife where the knife in question was a non-locking folder? I can't really see any judge, even there, allowing the definition of a Gravity Knife given in § 265.00 sub 5 which specifies:

"Gravity knife" means any knife has blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device.

to be perverted that far.

If not, the UKPK, the DKPK, the Pride, and the upcoming Urban would all be safe choices, even if they can be dropped.

If so, then building a knife to comply with a law which is being misinterpreted and misapplied is an exercise in futility. If the courts in New York City are allowing the Police and District Attorneys there to get away with calling any Spyderco front lock in factory condition a gravity knife, then any knife can be so classified.

Then again, if that's the case, then perhaps it's time to just say "screw it, I might as well hang for a sheep as a lamb" and find a shady dealer willing to sell you a Citadel. :D

Please note that I have boldfaced CITY because the other 98% of New York State does not interpret the law that way. The only "grey area" up here are assisted openers. While they are sold openly, even by the "big box" stores, in many areas you may very well be charged with possession of a switchblade if caught carrying one, especially if guilty of "impersonating a chocolate starfish" at the time.

[Blue72]

Any pinned pivot knife can be peened until it won't spydie drop. Why not just be discreet, stay out of trouble, understand you'll get a knife-ectomy if you do get in trouble and write your congressman and alder person and try to change the laws you deem unjust and unfair.

Capitulation is such an ugly thing, do something about these laws and you'll sleep better even if they aren't changed. :spyder:

Trust me,

I am discreet and stay out of trouble, that is the whole reason why I am requesting this knife design. But all it takes is a subway spotcheck or I get into an accident for a police officer to discover the knife. Changing laws is not that easy, especially trying to convince NY to be more lax in their knife laws.

[Blue72]

Deacon

There have been many arrest and court cases. do a simple search at your local library on gravity knives. You would be shocked.

There even has been cases where a small pocket knive that does not flick open easy and only flicked open sometimes has been declared a "gravity knife"

such as

People v. Kong Wang
17 Misc.3d 133(A), 851 N.Y.S.2d 72 (Table)
N.Y.Sup.App.Term,2007.
October 31, 2007

(New York County)

Important quote, for our purposes:

Quote:
The trial evidence established that both knives possessed by defendant met the statutory definition of a gravity knife ( see Penal Law § 265.00[5] ). The testifying police officer demonstrated at trial that the knives opened with the use of centrifugal force. That the second knife did not open on the officer's initial attempt at trial did not preclude a finding of its operability as a gravity knife ( see e.g. People v. Smith, 308 A.D.2d 608 [2003] ). Finally, the Penal Law provisions defining “gravity knife” ( see Penal Law §§ 265.00 [5] and 265.01[1] ) are not impermissibly vague as applied to defendant ( see People v. Stuart, 100 N.Y.2d 414, 421 [2003] ).

Note, Kong Wang will not appear in the printed volume. It will only appear in the Reporter Table.

[Delica_Nut]

If the Popo confiscates BFD. They are very cheap.

[The Deacon]

Deacon

There have been many arrest and court cases. do a simple search at your local library on gravity knives. You would be shocked.

There even has been cases where a small pocket knive that does not flick open easy and only flicked open sometimes has been declared a "gravity knife"

such as

People v. Kong Wang
17 Misc.3d 133(A), 851 N.Y.S.2d 72 (Table)
N.Y.Sup.App.Term,2007.
October 31, 2007

(New York County)

Important quote, for our purposes:

Quote:
The trial evidence established that both knives possessed by defendant met the statutory definition of a gravity knife ( see Penal Law § 265.00[5] ). The testifying police officer demonstrated at trial that the knives opened with the use of centrifugal force. That the second knife did not open on the officer's initial attempt at trial did not preclude a finding of its operability as a gravity knife ( see e.g. People v. Smith, 308 A.D.2d 608 [2003] ). Finally, the Penal Law provisions defining “gravity knife” ( see Penal Law §§ 265.00 [5] and 265.01[1] ) are not impermissibly vague as applied to defendant ( see People v. Stuart, 100 N.Y.2d 414, 421 [2003] ).

Note, Kong Wang will not appear in the printed volume. It will only appear in the Reporter Table.

I see nothing there which implies, much less states, that either of the knives were non-locking folders. Nor do I see anything that supports your statement that one, or both, of them were small.

I am not arguing the fact that NYC has twisted the definition of a gravity knife to include almost any locking folder with a blade which protrudes far enough from the handle to be grasped between thumb and forefinger, but I do question whether they've ever successfully prosecuted anyone where the knife in question did not have a lock.

[Michael Bolton]

You could bypass all of this by simply carrying a totally concealed fb under 4"....Not as practical and definitely not NKP friendly...but it is one option..Ronin/Street Beat?

It is totally crazy, concealed Ronin is a-OK, Yojimbo, questionable....

[Blue72]

I see nothing there which implies, much less states, that either of the knives were non-locking folders. Nor do I see anything that supports your statement that one, or both, of them were small.

I am not arguing the fact that NYC has twisted the definition of a gravity knife to include almost any locking folder with a blade which protrudes far enough from the handle to be grasped between thumb and forefinger, but I do question whether they've ever successfully prosecuted anyone where the knife in question did not have a lock.

The section was only a small excerpt of one case as I noted above. I never said that non locking or locking folders where a problem.

I also did not post this to debate what gets constituted as a gravity knife and if people are prosecuted. There is no need for it. You can simply go on Westlaw or LexisNexis and search the cases for yourself. They are there in Black and White.

This thread was about asking to make a Knife for New Yorkers that can avoid the hassle. A fixed blade is not an option for me, because it can still fall under the "dangerous knife" laws and I wear a suit for work and a fixed blade would not be very professional.

A knife was supposed to get me out of trouble, not get me into some