Balisongs Demystified by Fred Perrin

[Nemo]

Bonjour,



this is a copy of a draft of article we made with Fred but were enable to push on our old site. Since the SPyderfly is coming I thought you will found his thoughts on the subject of great value.



BTW I have pictured all his babys...

But I need time to reduce theirside.



Fred Perrin uses and makes a lot of Balisongs. It's a locking folder of quality. Easy to clean and with simple mechanism.



Now in France a lot of fishermen has adopted balisongs (actually cheap german bali's) as their EDF (every day fishing) knife.



Balisongs or Couteaux Papillon in France are used since a very long time.

Now it's current to say they are Filipino knives…

And some even say it's antique knives.

We would like to understand how people who could have and a carry fixed blades have invented folders instead



We think the Butterfly knives have not been invented in the Philipinnes !

In fact you can find Balisong in the Philipinnes since the 1920.

Because Manilla is a harbour. And the sailor used Butterfly knives made in Germany, France and the US.

Then Filipinos people has developped technics and made their own.

The utility of that knife is to be concealed. And the Boom was during WW2 when knives were prohibited.



There is three big production center in the Philipines Manilla Batanga and Balisong.

Balisong come from broken horn, but again, there is many books around that nmae (Imada or Coco Hernandez)



In 1904 in US Billing and Spencer has patented the Butterfly knife but it was allready patented since 1872 !!!

This is the first trace of Balisong in the USA.

You see how old is it !



In Europe… In France and Germany many brend were allready making Balisong.

The first trace has been found in 1780 in France with a knife called "Le Pied DU Roy". (The King's foot)

Circa 1800 the butterfly knives were common.

It's easy to find some butterflies from that time. They were made in Paris and Thier (Center of France). There is a beautiful collection of that old Butterfly Knives in the Thiers Museum.



You will notice in Thier Museum, "Le Pied Du Roy" like many old Butterfly got gradued handles à la Leatherman !!

French Army troop have been provided with a Butterfly Knife but after WW2 there is no more traces of Butterflies made by brend.

It was a question of fashion in Europe.

Fashion…



Now what you need to see in Butterfly design:

It's a folder with reliability.

You can have double edge blade… the combinaison are infinite.

The Butterfly is reallly solid and if you know isostatism, the three points of locking are centered.



Also the easy one hand openings and closing made it a great tool.

Easy maintenance: no springs !



Closed it's a yawara. Half opened it's a flail.

And it's really fun to play with and you make auto training and develop your feeling.

The more you play with it the more you develop a close relation ship with your tool.



Fred got very old Balisong in his collection like

this two tools who has been displayed for the Universal Exposition at the end of the 19th century.

The inventor is mr Gadget (that where the name come from&#8230<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

We think the butterfly knives has been a real hype in 1900 after the Exposition





Another balisong is a 19th century knife (circa 1880) made in Germany by BOTENGEN and SABIN.

3 inches carbon steel blade of course. The handle are in silver nickel and wood.

Its really well made! Excellent ! We don't know modern balisong made with that excellence unless expensive customs.

We find in their catalog these knives called "Springless Marvel) also Yatagan Blades.

In that time the Balisong were produced in good quantity and also exported because of their quality.

Looking at the quality at the pins at the axes. No glue were used !



Another one is a Butterfly knife from WWI. It was a reglementary and regular knife in the french forces .

It has been made in Thier (by Deluc Ets) the handles are folded steel and the blade is carbon steel.

There is an hard chrom finish. You can notice there is a guard on the blade. And when closed the tang is a screwdriver…







My own knife made by Fred Perrin.

The blade is 4 inches CPMT440V chisel ground tanto bowie.

The handle in titanium sandwich construction.

We have made a flip flap sheath in leather with low profile look.

It's look like a speed loader for gun.



I use it since 1996 and it is one of the rare folder I got which has always performed perfectly while working in the mud.



cheers



JM

[argyll]

Great article, Nemo.

I always enjoy your's and Fred's contributions.

Best regards,

Argyll

Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit -- Ovid (He who is not prepared today will be less so tomorrow)

[danzomekahiro]

Hi Nemo

Great article, thanks!

(Completely illegal in England, except inside your home....)

Danzo

Edited by - danzomekahiro on 11/18/2003 6:26:29 PM

[TomH]

Here's an old thread with article by Fred Perrin on why he likes balisongs.

Just wondering when Spyderco will be making their next one.

[Wartstein]

For a while I was into Balisongs and learned some tricks, never had one made by Spyderco though.

I think the SmallFly 2 is still in production, isn´t it? While the Spyderfly is not?
I actually really like the design of the SmallFly 2 for the reason that the blade looks to be actually good for real EDC knife tasks.
How the thing flips though I can´t tell, also not if the pocket clip would bother me when flipping it (could just take it off though).

Now don´t get me wrong, I think the Smallfly 2 IS worth the money they ask for it, I personally though would prefer let´s say a Byrd version for less.

/ Since we´re talking "out of the EDC box" knives:
I´d also love to see no spin throwing knives made by Spyderco for a reasonable price .(The SpyderThrowers look to be very nice for traditional spin throwing, but not so much for no spin and definitely not for instinctive half spin).

[Wartstein]

... To be precise: At least I have a BaliYo (Fun, but since it is a pen inevitably a bit too small and light to be ideal for flipping)

[Evil D]

I don't have any Spyderco Bali's but I did get a Janisong which is like a Bali on training wheels

I'm not opposed to them, I guess it would just take the right knife to catch my interest. I look at them as potentially being a harder use design than other folders because they have twice the pivot strength and rely less on body screws for structural rigidity, they seem to me like they could be built specifically as a hard use folder moreso than a fancy flippy floppy flashy effect sort of knife. They're also pretty safe when you consider how hard it would be to close one on your hand during use (I mean while cutting things). You don't HAVE to flip them around and potentially cut yourself.

I would like to see a single edge design that has a tall height blade with good slicing geometry and maximizes edge length as much as you can in a design like this. Lots of these knives use short height blades that end up having really poor cutting geometry, so give it a blade that can slice well. Titanium handles with some texture to them for grip. Maybe even go full Salt mode and make them in MagnaCut. This is something I always watch for with other makers but I need a knife with the Spyderco touch.

*Edited to add*

Oh, like a Smallfly 2. I don't know how I missed this knife but I just ordered one

[Actinolite]

Hi Nemo

Great article, thanks!

(Completely illegal in England, except inside your home....)

Danzo

Edited by - danzomekahiro on 11/18/2003 6:26:29 PM

So you can legally own one in England? In my state, simple possession is a misdemeanor.

[zuludelta]

Interesting article. I think it's pretty uncontroversial now to say that the balisong is definitely derived from the French couteau papillon. At the same time, I don't think anyone will disagree that it is in the Philippines that the design truly found its place in contemporary martial arts history and concealed carry practice.

I spent my childhood and a chunk of my early adult life in the Philippines & I can attest to the popularity of the balisong there (at least in the region where I lived at the time). I've owned a few since I was a teen, and I've been mugged/slashed with one, too. A lot of people—men and women—carried one for both self defense and as a personal cutting tool, despite public carry of the balisong (though not ownership) being nominally illegal in the country. Heck, my mum always carried one in her purse when she went out of the house. One of my aunts is from one of the older balisong-making families in Batangas, and she (along with her sisters) used to run a small shop that sold balisongs in various sizes, from tiny ones that could be carried as a keychain to full-size veintenueve (29 cm blade) balisongs.

Now this may sound strange coming from someone who has a personal connection to the balisong, but I tend to think of it now as an anachronism in terms of its utility as a tool and defensive implement. As far as ease of carry/deployment, user safety, and legality, there are just so many better options out there in the modern folding knife world. That said, I don't think any of them quite have the historical and cultural cachet that the balisong carries in certain circles. The balisong, as old and (relatively) impractical as it is today, is still the coolest folder in my mind.

I'd love to own a Smallfly or really, any of the modern balisongs made by reputable makers just to see and experience what the state of the art is now, but alas, possession of a balisong is illegal in Canada because of its legal classification as a "gravity knife" (this strikes me as being the equivalent of outlawing a single-shot break-action shotgun while allowing for the sale and ownership of a Mossberg 940, but hey, nobody ever said knife laws had to make sense LOL). I'd love to see a modern maker find a way to get around this whole gravity knife nonsense, but I suspect that the market just isn't there to justify the cost of research and development of a "more legal" balisong, especially since it makes more practical sense to carry a regular folder. (As an aside: wouldn't a balisong that doesn't have a locking latch qualify as a "non-locking folder"? Without thinking about it too much, I think it does because it's only the user's grip that keeps the knife in its "open" position, much like a friction folder)

[Drubieg]

Hi Nemo

Great article, thanks!

(Completely illegal in England, except inside your home....)

Danzo

Edited by - danzomekahiro on 11/18/2003 6:26:29 PM

So you can legally own one in England? In my state, simple possession is a misdemeanor.

Most likely the law refers to possession in public places. Possession in your own private home is a different ball game.at least in California, Nearly all knives/swords are legal to own as long as they aren't carried in public

[JARHEAD]

Nice read.

[Actinolite]

Hi Nemo

Great article, thanks!

(Completely illegal in England, except inside your home....)

Danzo

Edited by - danzomekahiro on 11/18/2003 6:26:29 PM

So you can legally own one in England? In my state, simple possession is a misdemeanor.

Most likely the law refers to possession in public places. Possession in your own private home is a different ball game.at least in California, Nearly all knives/swords are legal to own as long as they aren't carried in public

Washington. Mere possession is illegal. Of course, as long as your house is never searched…