Advice on tipping etiquette please

[Mage7]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

I was in management idiot.

Whoa, you DO know how to use a different emoji than after all lol


Tipping culture annoys me. One of the most irritating things I hear is, "If you can't afford to tip, then you shouldn't eat out." I heard a person complaining about this after someone got a free meal at Denny's for their birthday, and if you can't find the grace to forfeit your entitlement to gratuity on what could generally only amount to a $12 bill at most, then you're just as bad as the cheapskates that think dropping $20 on a $200 bill should only occur if the service was excellent and start acting like it's an affront to society to expect $40.

The other thing is that the idea that servers live off of tips is really not true for every state and municipality. A few states forbid employers from counting tips toward the minimum wage, implementing tip pools, etc. and for the most part there's an overlap between states with the highest minimum wage and the states with such laws. In other words, while it's not the norm, a few states ensure that tips actually are gratuity and not a wage, and that the wage that's paid can actually support someone.

I'm glad to live in such a state so I can choose not to reward poor service without being party to exploiting someone for free labor by doing so.

[Ankerson]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

I was in management idiot.

Whoa, you DO know how to use a different emoji than after all lol


Tipping culture annoys me. One of the most irritating things I hear is, "If you can't afford to tip, then you shouldn't eat out." I heard a person complaining about this after someone got a free meal at Denny's for their birthday, and if you can't find the grace to forfeit your entitlement to gratuity on what could generally only amount to a $12 bill at most, then you're just as bad as the cheapskates that think dropping $20 on a $200 bill should only occur if the service was excellent and start acting like it's an affront to society to expect $40.

The other thing is that the idea that servers live off of tips is really not true for every state and municipality. A few states forbid employers from counting tips toward the minimum wage, implementing tip pools, etc. and for the most part there's an overlap between states with the highest minimum wage and the states with such laws. In other words, while it's not the norm, a few states ensure that tips actually are gratuity and not a wage, and that the wage that's paid can actually support someone.

I'm glad to live in such a state so I can choose not to reward poor service without being party to exploiting someone for free labor by doing so.

As I and some other posted in the thread.

I think the whole tipping thing just needs to go away and the restaurants etc. need to pay a living wage.

That whole tipping thing should have never started in the 1st place. Leaving things up to the customers was never a good idea from the start really.

Yes, the cost of eating out would go up as the result.

So the customers would end up paying more anyway, tips or no tips, could be even higher than if they tipped in the 1st place.

In the end it would be better off for the staff as they would have a much more stable income.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

Ease up with the "better attention at school" comment. I've seen people with degrees not able to handle a busy Friday night bartending. I've also known some bartenders & chefs that make a respectable income in their chosen profession.

Many years ago, I use to Bartend, and train Bartenders. I worked in local bars, clubs, and nice restaurants - never did the high-end fine dining though. It's funny how learning to handle being 3 deep at the bar with people calling out drinks, helping the service bar, and getting it all right while being pleasant has helped me in many other jobs over the years. Being "In the Weeds" as it was called helped me handle some situations in the Army. Got me through some busy nights as an EMT. And I still use it in patient healthcare to this day.

And re: known non-tipping customers receiving poor future service - definitely happens. If a person is known for not tipping, or poor tipping, the server/bartender will most likely write it off as a loss & focus on their other customers. Why waste the time on someone that will not tip you well when you can better focus on getting a better tip from your other customers. We had 1 guy like that at a bar I worked at. He'd sit at the bar, order a steak meal, and get 3-4 Bud longnecks, then barely tip anything. On top of that he was rude - snapping his fingers at you,etc. So all the bartenders there started getting to him last. We weren't rude, we'd just take care of everyone else 1st. Eventually he stopped coming in.

That said, after almost 6 years in the Industry I was burnt out. I was tired of having to put on a fake personality & jump through hoops to earn a good tip. I also didn't like the prospect of how a family life would be working in that profession. I'd watch my manager's families come visit them at work so they could have dinner together since they were at work so much. Left 2 jobs & college to go Active Duty Army. It had paid the bills, plus a 2nd sports car, and I had lots of fun times (plus met my wife), but it was time to move on for me.

If I may ask what are your thoughts on this?

1 Could a person who does not drink alcohol and is very responsible be a good bartender and make good money to pay bills and buy Spyderco knives, and get good tips?


2 Can they serve drinks to adults in good conscience or is there an inner gnawing fear that that served drink will lead to say a fatal car death?

3 Should a customer give one big good tip to their immediate server or bartender in restaurants and bars, or, give a bunch of smaller tips to each employee?

4. I once heard a story about a customer who would bring a bag of produce like apples with them and give an apple or orange as a tip. Would most restaurant and bar workers consider that unwanted?

[Scandi Grind]

Well if you want to call out someone's flaws then do that, but don't insult someone's intelligence

Yes! I think you're on the right track. I was trying, perhaps awkwardly, to point out a failure to take advantage of educational opportunities, the laziness of sitting around complaining about their position, ingratitude displayed by calling their customers unflattering names, and arrogance of bragging about providing poor service.

I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to say something flattering about those folks, but if I were to do so, it would be dishonest. I'm more comfortable being a pariah than dishonest. Those behaviors are not smart or productive. The smart people are the exact opposite of that.

If that was deffinitely the situation, then yes, I would mostly agree. But most of that applies to any profession regardless of whether it took college or not anyway. I have seen very poor workers in every station, from cashier to CEO. Obviously there are some instances where the customer legitimately becomes a problem too. Vivi and Halfneck described well how it can be a problem but can also be handled tactfully in most instances.

[Naperville]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

Ease up with the "better attention at school" comment. I've seen people with degrees not able to handle a busy Friday night bartending. I've also known some bartenders & chefs that make a respectable income in their chosen profession.

Many years ago, I use to Bartend, and train Bartenders. I worked in local bars, clubs, and nice restaurants - never did the high-end fine dining though. It's funny how learning to handle being 3 deep at the bar with people calling out drinks, helping the service bar, and getting it all right while being pleasant has helped me in many other jobs over the years. Being "In the Weeds" as it was called helped me handle some situations in the Army. Got me through some busy nights as an EMT. And I still use it in patient healthcare to this day.

And re: known non-tipping customers receiving poor future service - definitely happens. If a person is known for not tipping, or poor tipping, the server/bartender will most likely write it off as a loss & focus on their other customers. Why waste the time on someone that will not tip you well when you can better focus on getting a better tip from your other customers. We had 1 guy like that at a bar I worked at. He'd sit at the bar, order a steak meal, and get 3-4 Bud longnecks, then barely tip anything. On top of that he was rude - snapping his fingers at you,etc. So all the bartenders there started getting to him last. We weren't rude, we'd just take care of everyone else 1st. Eventually he stopped coming in.

That said, after almost 6 years in the Industry I was burnt out. I was tired of having to put on a fake personality & jump through hoops to earn a good tip. I also didn't like the prospect of how a family life would be working in that profession. I'd watch my manager's families come visit them at work so they could have dinner together since they were at work so much. Left 2 jobs & college to go Active Duty Army. It had paid the bills, plus a 2nd sports car, and I had lots of fun times (plus met my wife), but it was time to move on for me.

If I may ask what are your thoughts on this?

1 Could a person who does not drink alcohol and is very responsible be a good bartender and make good money to pay bills and buy Spyderco knives, and get good tips?

I think so, but it gets harder with mixed drinks. You have to know what a good drink mixture tastes like.

2 Can they serve drinks to adults in good conscience or is there an inner gnawing fear that that served drink will lead to say a fatal car death?

Some people cannot handle one beer.

3 Should a customer give one big good tip to their immediate server or bartender in restaurants and bars, or, give a bunch of smaller tips to each employee?

I often sat at the bar for a beer before being seated and I tipped on every drink in case I was called. At high end restaurants, I'd imagine you tip each person you are dealing with at the table, and there may be 4 to 5 people waiting on your table.

4. I once heard a story about a customer who would bring a bag of produce like apples with them and give an apple or orange as a tip. Would most restaurant and bar workers consider that unwanted?

I do not think that is right.

[Ankerson]

Well if you want to call out someone's flaws then do that, but don't insult someone's intelligence

Yes! I think you're on the right track. I was trying, perhaps awkwardly, to point out a failure to take advantage of educational opportunities, the laziness of sitting around complaining about their position, ingratitude displayed by calling their customers unflattering names, and arrogance of bragging about providing poor service.

I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to say something flattering about those folks, but if I were to do so, it would be dishonest. I'm more comfortable being a pariah than dishonest. Those behaviors are not smart or productive. The smart people are the exact opposite of that.

If that was deffinitely the situation, then yes, I would mostly agree. But most of that applies to any profession regardless of whether it took college or not anyway. I have seen very poor workers in every station, from cashier to CEO. Obviously there are some instances where the customer legitimately becomes a problem too. Vivi and Halfneck described well how it can be a problem but can also be handled tactfully in most instances.

Yeah, exactly.

Education level and or job position has zero to do with integrity.

[ChrisinHove]

Yeah, exactly.

Education level and or job position has zero to do with integrity.

That’s not entirely true in all circumstances. Many professional institutions demand, instill and police strict ethical standards.

[Ankerson]

Yeah, exactly.

Education level and or job position has zero to do with integrity.

That’s not entirely true in all circumstances. Many professional institutions demand, instill and police strict ethical standards.

Good luck with that one.

Don't drink the cool-aid.

There is still human nature and that is impossible to overcome.

Character problems are VERY hard, pretty impossible to get around.

[Halfneck]

Well if you want to call out someone's flaws then do that, but don't insult someone's intelligence

Yes! I think you're on the right track. I was trying, perhaps awkwardly, to point out a failure to take advantage of educational opportunities, the laziness of sitting around complaining about their position, ingratitude displayed by calling their customers unflattering names, and arrogance of bragging about providing poor service.

I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to say something flattering about those folks, but if I were to do so, it would be dishonest. I'm more comfortable being a pariah than dishonest. Those behaviors are not smart or productive. The smart people are the exact opposite of that.

You're still stumbling around on your explanation. People working in the service industry are not always doing it as a stepping stone while attending school for another career. Some people enjoy working as a Bartender, Chef, or Wait staff. To imply that someone who enjoys working in the service industry as a failure that does not want to get an "education" is still insulting.

Re: "Those behaviors are not smart or productive..."

I beg to differ. As a Bartender/Waiter it's all about maximizing your profit for the limited seating you have & the time the customer is there. You either need to turn that seating over to get more customers in & out or keep the customer running up a tab for a bigger total tip. If you have a known bad tipper occupying your bar/table that's a waste of time & effort. They're occupying a spot for another customer that could tip you. Spending effort on the bad-tipping customer takes away from the other customers you have that might lead to better tips. So you cut your losses & focus on the other customers.

[Blerv]

I usually range from 15-20%. Sometimes if it’s a chain restaurant (like Subway) and I’m picking up a sandwich I’ll drop to 10%. When finances were a bit better or on special occasions at fancy places I’d go 25%.

I think 15% as a budget is fair.

Hopefully things will revamp and food workers will be paid a living wage one day. I’d love to surprise with a tip than feel obligated. At the minimum until then…just do the math for me so I just need to sign the receipt, lol.

[RustyIron]

I beg to differ. As a Bartender/Waiter it's all about maximizing your profit

Striving to do the best work possible will carry one further and higher in life. Working hard and doing a good job is ALWAYS superior to doing shoddy work. Intentionally doing shoddy work is anathema to success. I can't do it, I can't respect it, and it's discouraging to see that so many actively support it.

[Scandi Grind]

I beg to differ. As a Bartender/Waiter it's all about maximizing your profit

Striving to do the best work possible will carry one further and higher in life. Working hard and doing a good job is ALWAYS superior to doing shoddy work. Intentionally doing shoddy work is anathema to success. I can't do it, I can't respect it, and it's discouraging to see that so many actively support it.

Striving to do your best is a good and proper thing, but allowing yourself to be taken advantage of is not a virtue in of itself. I don't think what Halfneck is describing is poor behavior when done with proper judgement. As with all things, you have to have proper balance and rigid rules typically fail to describe what is really "right." It takes judgement and the right intentions to strike a proper balance.

[Naperville]

Yeah, exactly.

Education level and or job position has zero to do with integrity.

That’s not entirely true in all circumstances. Many professional institutions demand, instill and police strict ethical standards.

Are you in the USA and over the age of 18?

I find the recent complaints about Somalians in Minnesota to be somewhat unjustified. Are there shenanigans? YES. Did they steal billions? Maybe. I would say 40% to 50% of the people or corporations in the USA will rip you off if given the chance.

I've been ripped off by everyone that I have done business with since the 1990's including the FBI. You have the be shrewd to do business in the USA and not get ripped off. The lack of ethics and morals is off the hook.

[Naperville]

Education level and or job position has zero to do with integrity.

[RustyIron]

Striving to do your best is a good and proper thing, but allowing yourself to be taken advantage of is not a virtue in of itself.

Dang! As much as I enjoy sharing differing ideas in a never-ending quest for enlightenment, I think we're in total agreement here. A person should respect himself and his craft. Of course that respect needs to be tempered, or it will metastasize into unbridled egotism. Somewhere there is balance. If you figure out where that is, please drop a pin and send it to me.

[cabfrank]

This thread has become a dumpster fire and train wreck combined.

[Ankerson]

[

I find the recent complaints about Somalians in Minnesota to be somewhat unjustified. Are there shenanigans? YES. Did they steal billions? Maybe. I would say 40% to 50% of the people or corporations in the USA will rip you off if given the chance.

More like 99.99999%.

[Naperville]

This thread has become a dumpster fire and train wreck combined.

Seems like a great discussion to me.

[Naperville]

[

I find the recent complaints about Somalians in Minnesota to be somewhat unjustified. Are there shenanigans? YES. Did they steal billions? Maybe. I would say 40% to 50% of the people or corporations in the USA will rip you off if given the chance.

More like 99.99999%.

Tipping is like steel work for society. If you will tip a stranger that serves you in some capacity, maybe you will help others in dire straits too.

Ankerson you are probably correct. I was trying to aim for something everyone could believe, but you are more accurate I am sure. Finding faithful friends and people that will not take you for everything that you have is hard.

I have less than 3 really tight "friends" that live within one hour of me and I wonder what they would do for me, or what they could do for me if I was in dire straits. As close as I am to these people, I do not think they could help me at all. That is not to say that there are not a few good souls here in the forums, I am sure there are, but I do not really know or live near any of you.

I am on my own. I am looking for close friends but few have the will or capacity to help. Hence, do not get yourself into a bad situation where you rely on tips, help, or the goodness of people.

I will be looking for a solid church when I get to where I am going. That may be what saves me.

[Ankerson]

[

I find the recent complaints about Somalians in Minnesota to be somewhat unjustified. Are there shenanigans? YES. Did they steal billions? Maybe. I would say 40% to 50% of the people or corporations in the USA will rip you off if given the chance.

More like 99.99999%.

Tipping is like steel work for society. If you will tip a stranger that serves you in some capacity, maybe you will help others in dire straits too.

Ankerson you are probably correct. I was trying to aim for something everyone could believe, but you are more accurate I am sure. Finding faithful friends and people that will not take you for everything that you have is hard.

I have less than 3 really tight "friends" that live within one hour of me and I wonder what they would do for me, or what they could do for me if I was in dire straits. As close as I am to these people, I do not think they could help me at all. That is not to say that there are not a few good souls here in the forums, I am sure there are, but I do not really know or live near any of you.

I am on my own. I am looking for close friends but few have the will or capacity to help. Hence, do not get yourself into a bad situation where you rely on tips, help, or the goodness of people.

I will be looking for a solid church when I get to where I am going. That may be what saves me.

We are in fact really talking about human nature and character.

Really highlighting the more negative points as it turns out as there are a ton of those, much more so than anything remotely positive.