Advice on tipping etiquette please

[cabfrank]

By the way I think i get more of what you are saying now. It involves rude people and generally bad customers whom also don't tip, as opposed to generally decent regulars who just happen to be cheap. I still don't see the second group getting refused service and run out just because they are cheap, but the first group with no redeeming qualities certainly wouldn't be welcome forever.

[Ankerson]

By the way I think i get more of what you are saying now. It involves rude people and generally bad customers whom also don't tip, as opposed to generally decent regulars who just happen to be cheap. I still don't see the second group getting refused service and run out just because they are cheap, but the first group with no redeeming qualities certainly wouldn't be welcome forever.

People who don't tip are bad customers.

I don't care if they are there everyday, they are not good customers if they don't tip. They are jerks or any other negative label one can come up with. It's actually even worse if they are regulars and don't tip. They are wasting the wait staff's time that should be used for good customers.

They need to go elsewhere like fast food or get takeout.

It all never averages out, that missed tip will never be recovered, the server will always be that tip amount short in the end.

Unless the restaurant pays the server that missed tip, that won't happen so...

Management needs to deal with it, that is their freaking job to take care of the staff.

[cabfrank]

I'm on the side that should be agreeing with you. As I said though, at least where I work, there is a large amount of generosity that more than compensates for the occasional cheapness.

[Pacu0420]

I remember when it wasn't called a tip, it was a gratuity. And the gratuity amount depended on how good or bad the service was. I used to work in restaurants and have dined in many. I see both sides. Yes, customers can be rude and cheap, but servers and restaurant staff can be the same. Or just plain bad at their job. I don't feel very gratuitous when a grumpy server slams my food on the table with a grunt, then disappears for the remainder of the meal. Yes, that has happened!

Or maybe I'm just a cranky old fart these days.

Just to clarify, I do tip, but not if the service is terrible.

[Ankerson]

I remember when it wasn't called a tip, it was a gratuity. And the gratuity amount depended on how good or bad the service was. I used to work in restaurants and have dined in many. I see both sides. Yes, customers can be rude and cheap, but servers and restaurant staff can be the same. Or just plain bad at their job. I don't feel very gratuitous when a grumpy server slams my food on the table with a grunt, then disappears for the remainder of the meal. Yes, that has happened!

Or maybe I'm just a cranky old fart these days.

Just to clarify, I do tip, but not if the service is terrible.

That's not actually true except for restaurants that paid a living wage.

There has always been a standard tip amount and that has changed in percentage over the years.

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs who always look for a way to not pay or cheap out, and or get over. It is total complete BS.

And or those who think they are entitled or everyone should be graced by their presence.

Most service issues are the fault of management, not the wait staff.

Have a complaint talk to the manager, don't take it out on the server.

The staff has to be there to make a living, the customers however don't, they are there to be waited on.

Tipping should never be in question at all, leave a tip of the basic percentage, say 15%.

[RustyIron]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

[Halfneck]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

Ease up with the "better attention at school" comment. I've seen people with degrees not able to handle a busy Friday night bartending. I've also known some bartenders & chefs that make a respectable income in their chosen profession.

Many years ago, I use to Bartend, and train Bartenders. I worked in local bars, clubs, and nice restaurants - never did the high-end fine dining though. It's funny how learning to handle being 3 deep at the bar with people calling out drinks, helping the service bar, and getting it all right while being pleasant has helped me in many other jobs over the years. Being "In the Weeds" as it was called helped me handle some situations in the Army. Got me through some busy nights as an EMT. And I still use it in patient healthcare to this day.

And re: known non-tipping customers receiving poor future service - definitely happens. If a person is known for not tipping, or poor tipping, the server/bartender will most likely write it off as a loss & focus on their other customers. Why waste the time on someone that will not tip you well when you can better focus on getting a better tip from your other customers. We had 1 guy like that at a bar I worked at. He'd sit at the bar, order a steak meal, and get 3-4 Bud longnecks, then barely tip anything. On top of that he was rude - snapping his fingers at you,etc. So all the bartenders there started getting to him last. We weren't rude, we'd just take care of everyone else 1st. Eventually he stopped coming in.

That said, after almost 6 years in the Industry I was burnt out. I was tired of having to put on a fake personality & jump through hoops to earn a good tip. I also didn't like the prospect of how a family life would be working in that profession. I'd watch my manager's families come visit them at work so they could have dinner together since they were at work so much. Left 2 jobs & college to go Active Duty Army. It had paid the bills, plus a 2nd sports car, and I had lots of fun times (plus met my wife), but it was time to move on for me.

[Ankerson]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

I was in management idiot.

[Ankerson]

A lot of that BS about tips being some sort of reward was started by cheap jerkoffs

Maybe you should have paid better attention at school so you could get a job that didn't require you to depend upon the kindness of jerkoffs.

Ease up with the "better attention at school" comment. I've seen people with degrees not able to handle a busy Friday night bartending. I've also known some bartenders & chefs that make a respectable income in their chosen profession.

Many years ago, I use to Bartend, and train Bartenders. I worked in local bars, clubs, and nice restaurants - never did the high-end fine dining though. It's funny how learning to handle being 3 deep at the bar with people calling out drinks, helping the service bar, and getting it all right while being pleasant has helped me in many other jobs over the years. Being "In the Weeds" as it was called helped me handle some situations in the Army. Got me through some busy nights as an EMT. And I still use it in patient healthcare to this day.

And re: known non-tipping customers receiving poor future service - definitely happens. If a person is known for not tipping, or poor tipping, the server/bartender will most likely write it off as a loss & focus on their other customers. Why waste the time on someone that will not tip you well when you can better focus on getting a better tip from your other customers. We had 1 guy like that at a bar I worked at. He'd sit at the bar, order a steak meal, and get 3-4 Bud longnecks, then barely tip anything. On top of that he was rude - snapping his fingers at you,etc. So all the bartenders there started getting to him last. We weren't rude, we'd just take care of everyone else 1st. Eventually he stopped coming in.

That said, after almost 6 years in the Industry I was burnt out. I was tired of having to put on a fake personality & jump through hoops to earn a good tip. I also didn't like the prospect of how a family life would be working in that profession. I'd watch my manager's families come visit them at work so they could have dinner together since they were at work so much. Left 2 jobs & college to go Active Duty Army. It had paid the bills, plus a 2nd sports car, and I had lots of fun times (plus met my wife), but it was time to move on for me.

I worked behind the scenes in management or cooking, but I know what you mean.

Then want back into the Grocery Business management once I moved.

I really never liked the restaurant business, I liked cooking and being behind the scenes.

I think it's a crappy business because of the way they are paid. People need to make a living wage really, even the wait staff and bartenders.

[James Y]

Just because someone is working a job in a service industry in which tips are expected does not make them uneducated or stupid. There are many people who work as servers, etc., who do those jobs on the way to doing other things. Even if that's all they ever do for work, it's an honest living, and not something to be looked down on.

I also worked for several years as a licensed massage therapist, in which tipping was also expected. I think I almost always got tipped during my 13 years in that profession. Maybe a couple times I didn't get a tip.

Way back when I bussed tables, occasionally we had customers who dined and dashed. A couple of times we caught them outside, before they could make their escape.

Jim

[Ankerson]

Just because someone is working a job in a service industry in which tips are expected does not make them uneducated or stupid. There are many people who work as servers, etc., who do those jobs on the way to doing other things. Even if that's all they ever do for work, it's an honest living, and not something to be looked down on.

I also worked for several years as a licensed massage therapist, in which tipping was also expected. I think I almost always got tipped during my 13 years in that profession. Maybe a couple times I didn't get a tip.

Way back when I bussed tables, occasionally we had customers who dined and dashed. A couple of times we caught them outside, before they could make their escape.

Jim

Jim,

Absolutely.

Education has nothing to do with intelligence.

I always had nothing but respect for service workers.

Jim

[RustyIron]

Just because someone is working a job in a service industry in which tips are expected does not make them uneducated or stupid.

Indeed. Sniveling about it online might make people think that one was indeed uneducated and stupid. Sniveling about it and calling your customers derogatory names reinforces the label. The advice to provide shoddy service to ungrateful customers is another reflection upon one's character and work ethic. I'm going to double down on my advice to work hard in educating oneself no matter one's age or position; strive to obtain the position you want; and do impeccable work regardless of the circumstances. To do anything less is mediocre.

[TkoK83Spy]

My wife and I typically eat dinner/lunch at the bar of restaurants, unless it's somewhere fancy or a special occasion. The past few years at a local place, we had got to know a younger bartender (mid 20's). She was always so friendly, smiley, all the regulars love her. She remembers everyones names, family members that are talked about, etc. She was using her job as a bartender to get her through nursing school. She's been an RN for close to a year now. Very happy for her to get the job she was working hard for...but the bar experience is no longer the same, and we don't frequent there for lunch as often as we used to. I like to think, since she was such a great worker and seemed to be an overall good person, that we were able to somewhat help her towards her goal. We always tipped her generously.

[James Y]

Just because someone is working a job in a service industry in which tips are expected does not make them uneducated or stupid.

Indeed. Sniveling about it online might make people think that one was indeed uneducated and stupid. Sniveling about it and calling your customers derogatory names reinforces the label. The advice to provide shoddy service to ungrateful customers is another reflection upon one's character and work ethic. I'm going to double down on my advice to work hard in educating oneself no matter one's age or position; strive to obtain the position you want; and do impeccable work regardless of the circumstances. To do anything less is mediocre.

I've personally never sniveled about work. As a busboy, I wasn't the one receiving the tips. It was the waiters and waitresses that got the tips, and at the end of the night at around 1 a.m., they gave the busboys a percentage of their tips. I do recall one time a couple who were getting ready to leave, motioning me to come over. The man handed me a sizable tip (around $30 or $40, as I recall). Even now, but especially back in the early '80s, that was a really good tip, IMO. He told me, "This is for you. Not for the waitress. It's for YOU." I wasn't sure what had happened between them and the waitress, but I took it.

Jim

[cabfrank]

A lot of people who haven't done the job think they know a lot about it. Newsflash, they don't, as with any other job.

[Scandi Grind]

Indeed. Sniveling about it online might make people think that one was indeed uneducated and stupid. Sniveling about it and calling your customers derogatory names reinforces the label. The advice to provide shoddy service to ungrateful customers is another reflection upon one's character and work ethic. I'm going to double down on my advice to work hard in educating oneself no matter one's age or position; strive to obtain the position you want; and do impeccable work regardless of the circumstances. To do anything less is mediocre.

Well if you want to call out someone's flaws then do that, but don't insult someone's intelligence based on the job they had because that has nothing to do with it. In my experience many people doing low wage, "basic" jobs turn out to be much more virtuous than the people I have encountered doing high paying educated jobs. You can't really stereo type anyone based on profession, which is what I am trying to point out, but honestly I tend to see things happening backwards from what is typically assumed.

[James Y]

Having held so-called "low-level" jobs in my much younger years (including janitor), I know for a fact that MANY people look down on people they see as being in "menial jobs." I've received some of that treatment in the past, so I know what it's like. And is one of the many reasons I never look down on anyone for the job or profession they are in. Unless they are criminals; and criminals exist in all educational and income levels.

How someone treats those whom they perceive to be in lower positions in life than they are, tells a lot more about them than it does about the people they are judging.

My oft-repeated saying, "Don't Underestimate Anyone" applies to many things. Some of these people who may be looked down upon by some others can be incredibly intelligent, gifted people, with insights and potential that far exceeds those who are looking down on them. You also don't know what anyone has been through and had to overcome in life.

Jim

[Naperville]

I have had a number of jobs starting at 14 years of age in architecture and construction. I ended up working primarily in construction until I was around 27. I worked a few other jobs too, at car dealerships, and as a hockey referee because I could skate well and it paid during the Winter when construction slowed down.

Then I tried to join the US Marine Corps and they found a heart murmur on my ship date. They did not take me. Doctors told me to get out of construction and at the time I was working as an electrician for the IBEW.

I went to college, graduated and started to look for work. I was not in the top 10% of all graduates and it led me to selling everything and heading to Silicon Valley to look for work to land a job. I slept in a tent for 6 weeks in the San Bernardino National Forest in Southern California in the Fall of 1999 to land a job out of college.

The one thing that I learned is that if you work hard, work smart, and do what you are supposed to be doing while at work, it's a job, and it isn't usually easy. You can make it easy by slacking off but that isn't what you're getting paid to do.

I never take for granted that anyones job is easy. I never take it for granted that the people holding any particular job are making what they should be making income-wise either.

I always tip. Not because I am wealthy. I am not wealthy. I've been poor my whole life. I tip because if I was in an industry where tips were part of the wage, then YOU TIP.

On holidays I tip my Uber drivers $10 and $20 for a short ride, off holidays I probably tip $10 for a short ride, and $30 for a long 15+ mile ride. The other day I had junkmen here (2 hard working Latino guys) and they worked very hard in the cold to clear out my garage, and they asked for $475, I gave them $550.

Treat your fellow man how you would want to be treated.

[Naperville]

Just because someone is working a job in a service industry in which tips are expected does not make them uneducated or stupid.

Indeed. Sniveling about it online might make people think that one was indeed uneducated and stupid. Sniveling about it and calling your customers derogatory names reinforces the label. The advice to provide shoddy service to ungrateful customers is another reflection upon one's character and work ethic. I'm going to double down on my advice to work hard in educating oneself no matter one's age or position; strive to obtain the position you want; and do impeccable work regardless of the circumstances. To do anything less is mediocre.

I've got multiple degrees and spent $20,000+ beyond that for additional coursework in technical support. Those degrees never paid off at all, they sucked at helping me to make a living, but I was told by doctors and the US Marine Corps to get out of construction so that I may live longer. I had a bicuspid aortic valve that was repaired with open heart surgery in 2017.

Education worked for some. Labor worked for some. There is no easy answer, education is not it, it is a matter of market timing an in demand position, getting your foot in the door and making a living for 30 years in that field.

IT'S ALL A CRAPSHOOT

[RustyIron]

Well if you want to call out someone's flaws then do that, but don't insult someone's intelligence

Yes! I think you're on the right track. I was trying, perhaps awkwardly, to point out a failure to take advantage of educational opportunities, the laziness of sitting around complaining about their position, ingratitude displayed by calling their customers unflattering names, and arrogance of bragging about providing poor service.

I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to say something flattering about those folks, but if I were to do so, it would be dishonest. I'm more comfortable being a pariah than dishonest. Those behaviors are not smart or productive. The smart people are the exact opposite of that.