China

[zhyla]

Interesting thoughts. I wonder what that 10% really means. Unit volume? Revenue? Profit?

I was assuming revenue. You wouldn't spin up an entire Chinese wing of the product line to sell 10% knives at 25% of the price of USA knives. But who knows.

[BeggarSo]

Hi Sal, funny to come across this topic I have been thinking China has caught up.

I honestly dont care where things are made so long as they are well made and China is capable of great manufacturing.

The thing is China can build great things it all depends on the spec they are paid to build to.

In my lifetime I have seen Japan become renowned for quality when once there products were considered junk.

It's one world too bad this will not come to pass as a unified humanity in my lifetime.

The idea of Spyderco manufacturing in China is not a negative purchase consideration for me.

I do think Spyderco is missing the boat on rereleasing great models like the wharncliffe PM2 and would love some more CTS-XHP.

[mikey177]

I get what you both mean but still wonder: Perhaps it is that Spyderco as a company and as a whole can stay healthy, thrieve or survive and thus actually be able to produce in the US and create Jobs there right because they also have their "Chinese branch"?

Just something I ask myself, no idea how the situation really is.

I don't know the real situation either.

If this is the case, how is Spyderco different from companies like Benchmade, Opinel or Morakniv that, AFAIK, do not have a manufacturing presence in China yet seemingly also thrive?

[Midnightrider]

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.

Thanx,

sal

I thought I posted on this but I don't see it.

Well, for me I buy Spyderco because they're Made in America. I do have a few offshore models and they're good knives.

It's kinda rare for anything to be made outside of China, I think it's a big distinguisher for Spyderco.

I mean, how many people would be ok if Coors moved to China. The Chinese can absolutely make great stuff. But it ain't like home.

[Danke]

I get what you both mean but still wonder: Perhaps it is that Spyderco as a company and as a whole can stay healthy, thrieve or survive and thus actually be able to produce in the US and create Jobs there right because they also have their "Chinese branch"?

Just something I ask myself, no idea how the situation really is.

I don't know the real situation either.

If this is the case, how is Spyderco different from companies like Benchmade, Opinel or Morakniv that, AFAIK, do not have a manufacturing presence in China yet seemingly also thrive?

Well let's run on over to Blade HQ for a look, least expensive Benchmade when sorting by price is a Griptilian (USA) at $150 US. Then when we sort Spyderco by price the least expensive one is an Ambitious (China) at $47.25.

So Benchmade is thriving by making knives that cost consumers 3x what Spyderco's cost. Crazy but it seems to be working. So as long as you're willing to shell out $150 for a USA made Ambitious this could happen.

How do Mora and Opinel get away with their prices when making knives in Sweden and France, both locations are Capitalist countries but they also happen to have robust social and public services. Not sure about moving Spyderco to Sweden or France so I'll get back to you on that.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Maybe Spyderco can make a test run of a budget general purpose fixed blade that goes for between 30 to 60 dollar price range with a budget steel and molded FRN grips and polypropylene sheath. 3 to 4 inch long blade.

[Jesla]

Maybe Spyderco can make a test run of a budget general purpose fixed blade that goes for between 30 to 60 dollar price range with a budget steel and molded FRN grips and polypropylene sheath. 3 to 4 inch long blade.

FRN molds are incredibly expensive…. Hardly something you do on a whim.

[Naperville]

What is the cheapest a folder with AUS-10 could be made? That seems to be a decent steel and then the knives would be made in Japan.

Knife Center carries AUS-10 knives down to $25.

[BeggarSo]

How about a PM2 Wharncliffe in Magnacut and fat carbon scales made in China DLC and Satin and Polished versions.

Spyderco can take advantage of lower cost manufacturing, and give us something great at a regular price and profit.

Seems like there is some odd perception China should only be for cheaper things, when they have proven they can put out top steels in top quality designs CIVIVI is no joke.

The whole USA only or only for nicer things is a nice sentiment and has its place where people are willing to pay more because everything here costs us more but reality does not and has not aligned with US only for many decades now. If anything it has been used for spin in the political arena from all sides.

China has been unfare with reciperical trade and that is being worked out.

I submit weather people like it or not China has made things more affordable and lives better for the United States but we should not continue to not do things for ourselves.

If Spyderco gives me the above described knives as an option to buy the ones from the U.S. at this higher price or this one from China for this lower price, I will buy the US made one to support US families but buying the Chinease one will also support US family's and workers as Spyderco profits so do there US manufacturing workers and so on.

There is a win win here as long as things are kept here also.

But what do I know I'm just a dumb ol knife nut

[sal]

I don't think that quality is a big issue now. The Chinese makers have gotten very good and they use all of the same equipment. I think the big problem facing US Manufacturers is the value of their Yuan. When you can produce a product for 1/6th the cost of making the same product in the US, it is challenging to compete. That's how the Chinese have dominated manufacturing globally in the past 20 years. I think a level playing field would change the game, but it's not likely.

Some one posted earlier that car parts were being made in China to replace the country of origin parts? So is a car supposedly made in the UK or Germany, really made with Chinese made parts?

'Tis a puzzlement.

sal

[Naperville]

I don't think that quality is a big issue now. The Chinese makers have gotten very good and they use all of the same equipment. I think the big problem facing US Manufacturers is the value of their Yuan. When you can produce a product for 1/6th the cost of making the same product in the US, it is challenging to compete. That's how the Chinese have dominated manufacturing globally in the past 20 years. I think a level playing field would change the game, but it's not likely.

Some one posted earlier that car parts were being made in China to replace the country of origin parts? So is a car supposedly made in the UK or Germany, really made with Chinese made parts?

'Tis a puzzlement.

sal

I can hear the peanut gallery howling at my response already. My responses are not unlike the many of responses from anyone else in this thread, yet they howl.



My big thing with China is, they are not an ally, and they are not our friend in any way. They are predators. I say starve the beast. Remove all manufacturing from China and watch them bump into things in the darkness that befalls them.

Would I like to see them enter THE DARK AGES? YES otherwise we are looking at WW III.

[Danke]

Glad we all understand what "Keeping Politics Out" means. So refreshing.

[BeggarSo]

Well I respect everyones right to feel the way they do and it is good to know how your customer base feels.

It's nice Sal and Spyderco care enough to ask, I like that. Speaks volumes.

[gk4ever2]

What is the cheapest a folder with AUS-10 could be made? That seems to be a decent steel and then the knives would be made in Japan.

Knife Center carries AUS-10 knives down to $25.

^ I was thinking pretty much the same thing with non-Chinese 440C steel (it happened to be the first steel I thought about). Ideally US-made 440C steel with the knives made in the US would be best.

My feelings are sending money to China for any product is helping our enemy, not our friend, and eventually it will be our country's downfall. I don't care how good and cheap Chinese products are - I will not buy them!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What is the cheapest a folder with AUS-10 could be made? That seems to be a decent steel and then the knives would be made in Japan.

Knife Center carries AUS-10 knives down to $25.

^ I was thinking pretty much the same thing with non-Chinese 440C steel (it happened to be the first steel I thought about). Ideally US-made 440C steel with the knives made in the US would be best.

My feelings are sending money to China for any product is helping our enemy, not our friend, and eventually it will be our country's downfall. I don't care how good and cheap Chinese products are - I will not buy them!

I have brought up 440 C before and the message I appear to have been told is, "been there, done that."
Some of my favorite American and Japanese
Folders and fixed blades from the 1970s to 1990s had 440C steel.

I like the AUS 10 idea of Naperville.

[Naperville]

Glad we all understand what "Keeping Politics Out" means. So refreshing.

I do NOT want my nephew and niece to have to deal with the CCP and WW III. If I can get you to understand that much, I've done a decent job.

Are you in the USA? Do you know how many years we would fight a war with China? Do you know how many would die? I'd like to avoid that.

[Naperville]

What is the cheapest a folder with AUS-10 could be made? That seems to be a decent steel and then the knives would be made in Japan.

Knife Center carries AUS-10 knives down to $25.

^ I was thinking pretty much the same thing with non-Chinese 440C steel (it happened to be the first steel I thought about). Ideally US-made 440C steel with the knives made in the US would be best.

My feelings are sending money to China for any product is helping our enemy, not our friend, and eventually it will be our country's downfall. I don't care how good and cheap Chinese products are - I will not buy them!

I agree with you on China. Sal may not want to hear us say drop China, but that is what I am thinking to myself.

Who is using 440C in modern folders? Anyone? I'd have to check with Knife Center's interface to check.

There are quite a few using AUS-10 and it has good properties and is used by one of our best allies, Japan. I am not against buying knives from Japan. Building up Japan, I am all for. Toyota is spending almost $1 trillion in the US to set up shop here now. Support our allies.

[sal]

Please let's keep the discussion to the knife industry. We are not discussing WW 111, investments, or car companies, or even allies. Your kind understanding and cooperation is appreciated.

sal

[BeggarSo]

Is AUS10 a 440C equivalent? I have a buck 110 in 440C and cant day it holds a edge very long, so cant really say it is something I would buy.

S30V however still continues to amaze.

[Polecat]

I would think you would want to avoid doing business with someone that has no problem selling fake knock offs of the very knives you are letting them produce. Politics aside, you guys do you.