China

[sal]

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.

Thanx,

sal

[Naperville]

I think that you want to avoid the image that Cold Steel has. They contract every knife as far as I know and collectors bash them for it on knife forums. Their quality seems to have held up, but it isn't a good image.

I try to avoid buying things made in China, but it is impossible. Many corporations in The West have their goods made in China. I certainly do not buy Chinese brands and I try to shop wisely. All of my jeans and most of my clothing are made in the USA. It can be done for some things.

Make what you can in the USA, EU, ...and stay out of China. If you make a few knives in China to sell knives, that is a corporate decision based on sales. I do not buy them but some may.

[James Y]

I personally prefer to avoid China-made knives. However, I know that there are manufacturers in China that make quality knives. Or they appear to be high-quality. Some say as good as or better than some of the top US manufacturers.

Other than Spyderco's China-made offerings, I haven't seen any actual long-term user reviews on many (if any) of the amazing-looking knives made by the popular, stylish Chinese brands that seem to be constantly rolling out.

I would always have questions in the back of my mind, on whether they cut any corners (is it the advertised steel type? What about the hardware? etc.) that might become obvious at some point down the line. Of course, flaws can come from any manufacturer, anywhere on the planet. So that could just be a "me" thing.

Sal, continue doing whatever is best for business. If I prefer to avoid China-made knives, then I just won't buy them. I would never suggest that Spyderco shouldn't have part of their product line made in China because of that. Others appreciate the cheaper prices for a good, usable Spyderco brand knife, and that's serving an important demographic, especially as prices on everything are rising.

But I would NEVER want to see most of Spyderco's lineup made in China.

Jim

[Malte]

I have Spyderco knives from China, Taiwan, Japan, Maniago and the US. All have their Pros and Cons, but the quality was always high, no matter which factory it came from. Coming from a perspective of affordability and the current economical climate of the world, I wholeheartedly agree to sell more affordable knives. This forum is a special place for like-minded knife afficionados and we know our steels and blade shapes by heart. If I ask my uncle or a colleague from work, if they would buy a knife for more than 50 $ or Euros they would look at me in astonishment. For them a 70 $ Manta 4 would be top of the line (they maybe use and have a Victorinox or an Opinel laying around somewhere). They would never get a Sprint Run 15V Military for almost 300 Euros, like I did.
So to offer affordable, high quality knives in an easy to handle and to sharpen steel (remember most people do not know how to sharpen their knives!) is a valid and necessary way for Spyderco to earn enough, so they can resume to offer niche steels and knives for the likes of us on this forum

[Danke]

I'm not in the US so I'm less focused on Made in the USA. I trust Spyderco to use a factory that will deliver quality.

The Shelter Cove is cool I don't have a fillet knife and I cook a lot of salmon so that looks good to me.

But maybe take this to marketing and note that a release of mostly China knives could be problematic for the foreseeable future.

[Synov]

If people buy it, keep making it. Country of origin doesn't bother me, nor does Spyderco making a knife I wouldn't buy bother me. People get worked up over nothing.

[cycleguy]

I mostly try to avoid product from China if I can, but, shamefully cross the line on occasion. Stok Bowie has tempted me on multiple occasions, but I have held my ground. Likely if done elsewhere I would have purchased one by now.

I can understand the consumer with little to no disposable income, I lived that. Fortunately today I can prioritize other considerations over out of pocket.

I purchased a couple z-cut recently for not much coin that are marked USA, and I have a Mora that didn’t cost much that is marked made in Sweden.

Seems basic can be done at home and can still be affordable for many.

On the flip side, i purchased a Native Chief Crucarta that I’ll nominate for “Knife of the Year”!

CG

[Zipper]

I am not from the USA, so no brand loyalty for USA made knives. Our (Aussie) domestic knife manufacturing (outside of custom makers) ceased a long time ago along with many other industries. Sadly, we are a good example for Americans to remember at this time in their history.
I first got into Benchmade and later Spyderco because USA quality brought me a sense of pride in ownership. After all we are heavily influenced by USA. I don’t see that changing unless quality control slips or pricing becomes ridiculous. Coincidentally, Spyderco opened my eyes to Taiwanese quality, and I own quite a few. Spyderco also introduced me to China manufacturing done with a degree of ethics that makes buying the products acceptable to me. Whether they are actually ethical or whether I just fell for the marketing, I will never know. I don’t know Sal and I will never visit China or their Spyderco manufacturing partners. I guess this is a good example of my trust in the brand. So while I only own one China made Spydie (the Goony), it is one more than I ever had before!
From a global customer perspective, I think Spyderco has a good balance at the moment. It allows them access to a lot of markets and diversifies manufacturing.

[Coastal]

For me, the latest Reveal contains 3 must-buys, and all are from China. (A couple of others I'll probably buy, as well. It's a nice Reveal, in my opinion.)

I don't get too wound up about buying from China, as long as the quality is good -- which it always is if it's branded "Spyderco." The low prices are a result of governmental policies: theirs and ours. I may not agree with the policies, but if they allow me to own something I want for a price I'm willing to pay, I'll accept the favor and buy it, 10 times out of 10.

Before anyone asks, this doesn't include buying Chinese imitations of trademarked items. The sale of these should be illegal, as they would be if the imitations were made in the U.S.

[civilian_g10]

For me, I look at quality first. If the country of origin is the US, Canada, or Europe, that's a plus. I'm not into politics. I judge people by their workmanship.

With that said, I've never seen a Chinese made product that could stack up to its North American or European counter-part.

Sal, as a business man, you have to choose what economic segments of the market you wish to target. For the lower end, it's simply a fact that China can produce cheaper than nearly anyone. For entry level products, it makes sense. For the mid-tier, high end, and limited runs, produce them in the location best suited for said product.

[Wallach]

I can't lie, I try not to buy Chinese made products when possible. It's not a hardline rule or anything, but when I can support my local economy, I try to. In that sense I don't really see an issue with Spyderco having some of their production come from China. They offer plenty of models from various places on Earth, and I can use my own discretion.

If I had any criticism of the Chinese models, it would only be that they don't appeal to me in the sense that many of them don't have the features I generally look to Spyderco for. But, again, it's not much of a criticism as I don't really see it as taking away from Spyderco's wider catalogue. I don't think you'll see a lot of folks really suggest Spyderco is "falling off" or whatever unless these Chinese knives start becoming a much larger part of your business, or they somehow start impacting models coming out of Golden, Seki, Taichung or Maniago.

[Scandi Grind]

I have mostly avoided Chinese knives since becoming an enthusiast. The last Chinese knives I bought was a kitchen knife set on clearance for $12. It was an unusually good deal and would be useful, so it seemed a shame not to get them. However, for buying anything for serious personal use I haven't really bought Chinese any time in recent history.

I don't have a stance against Chinese quality much these days, given the right manufacturer, but my knives are special to me. In a certain way, sacred. I am very concerned with the spirit of my knives as odd as that may sound, and a pride in a tool that is made in a way that I appreciate. And yet I still understand the need for a tool that is affordable and just gets the job done. I don't have much money myself, and knives are actually one of the only catagories in which I have ever invested in premium products. So if your not a knife nut and need a good tool, Chinese made is probably what you will get, and it is nice that the affordable option exists.

I wish that people bought less Chinese products. I wish that we could be less of a disposable product culture, but I can't change how millions of people think. Most of the market isn't me, and to make good business you can only work with the market you have. It only seems practical to me that Spyderco makes some of their products in China, I just want to see them keep making great US products too. Every once in awhile I get disappointed that a design I like is only made in China, the Tenacious is kind of one of those for me in fact, but there are a lot of good options from Spyderco. It is actually rare that I like more than a couple options from most other makers, so you guys are doing pretty good from my perspective having a dozen or more different models that I would really love owning.

[ladybug93]

couldn't care less where they're made as long as they are good quality and good value. i can support small businesses locally, but there aren't local knife makers, so it doesn't matter to me if my knife is made in colorado or japan or taichung or italy or china.

[jdw]

I have no particular loyalty to US made knives but I do believe that having so many Spyderco knives made in China cheapens Spyderco’s image. Gas stations and cheap online stores are full of cheap Chinese made knives while quality and performance defines Spyderco to me. I have no idea how prices and profit figure into the equation though.

[bearfacedkiller]

I’m a knife geek, the Chinese Spyderco’s just aren’t made for me and that’s ok. I have more premium folders than I know what to do with. Spyderco should make what sells.

As an outdoorsman the decision to make the Bow River and Shelter Cove both budget knives is a bummer. I have a Southfork and Sprig as well as quite a few Bark Rivers. I’m not lacking good hunting knives.

Sadly, premium fillet knives are about as rare as hen’s teeth so I was hoping Spyderco could fill that void.

That’s all I got. If I start to wander into geopolitics and globalism my post will become a diatribe nobody wants to read. I don’t have much control over any of that anyway. I just try to spend my money consciously which is why I have only ever purchased one Chinese knife.

[zhyla]

With Spyderco it’s always felt like the Chinese factories got the less important designs. Seems like that’s reversed a bit.

Carried my Astute today. If Spyderco made most of their products there I’d still buy primarily Spyderco. It’s a great knife, no caveats.

[JARHEAD]

I prefer USA!

[vivi]

I don't buy chinese knives 99% of the time. Every once in a while I'll pick one up, like the under $3 bait knife I posted about recently, or dirt cheap beaters to use as house knives at kitchens I run. $5 or less type of knives.

The chinese budget knife market is a lot different than the $150-300 high performance production knife market. People are obsessed with on paper specs, fidget factor, the latest trends like buttons locks or ultem scales, etc.

A lot of the people that make up that market got into knives post-covid, don't know how to sharpen, don't know diddly about edge geometry, etc.

This isn't so much to turn my nose up at this crowd as it is to outline that to cater to them it takes a much different approach than the "been on bladeforums since the 2000's" crowd.

I wish Spyderco the best in all their endeavors, but I plan to stick to US and Japanese spydies for the most part.

I will say I'm a big fan of the resilience design. Roomy handle, edge all the way back, neutral ergos etc. The blade steel always worked fine for me, especially in CE where I'd use the serrated part for things that dull a blade faster. If they weren't liner locks I'd still have one or two in my collection. While I never had a spyderco liner lock fail me, it's at the bottom of my list for locks I prefer along with frame locks.

That was one of the only exceptions I've made in the past decade for my personal collection, the two Resilience folders I used to own.

I also bought a cold steel machete, an 18" latin d guard, and realized when I opened it I got one of the new ones made in china vs south africa by lasher tools. I thought about sending it back but shipping would cost nearly what I paid out the door for it on sale. One day I'll try it and see how it holds up to the south african made models.

I won't dig too deep into the why, but overall you'd be hard pressed to sell me a chinese knife. It'd have to be something really special to make me think about it. I'm way pickier about the price too on chinese knives. It'd have to be top of the line best you can get materials for me to ever think about dropping over $100 on one, and even then I'd still more than likely pass. I think $55 is the most I've spent on a chinese knife.

[Spyderwebs]

Chinese knives are often liner lock, the worst of all locks, so on top of the "china" stigma, they usually feature my least preferred lock.

$80 is still too much for a Chinese knife especially considering their bottom tier steel.

Others like them, but they have zero appeal due to their low tier steel, typical liner lock, and perceived budget positioning due to their origin.

Spyderco is a premium brand and doesn't need to chase the low end market. It's crowded. Let others have the low end. The factory seems plenty busy anyways.

[RustyIron]

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

The critics are saying that last week you were a leader. Yesterday you revealed some new knives made in China, and you're still making the old knives. Now they're saying you're not a leader. I would call into question their reasoning.

But you asked what I think. I think that the new knives don't really appeal to me, but my first thought after seeing them was, "Spyderco is listening to some of its disgruntled users and is making some more affordable knives." It makes sense that you'd try to appeal to the demographic that might be priced out of the high-dollar knife market.