China

[Blerv]

I respect that Spyderco makes knives all over the globe. It allows them to have far more SKU’s going without seemingly the fear that something will shift and they will risk shuttering the company.

I’m eying the Gooney. It would be my first Chinese Spyderco/Byrd product though I’ve gifted a lot of Tenacious’ to people. Frankly I’d have more Spyderco products built there but I don’t like a non-round hole and frankly they seem kind of boring. I’d buy a Phil Wilson but I can’t even find a way to use my Temp SE sprint.

It’s a shame that everything is politics these days. I also think in the modern consumeristic culture we are prone to buy replacements before stuff it is truly needed. I’m trying to enjoy my old cars and old Spyderco’s. I’ve yet to wear out a Spyderco so my 50 or so will be really difficult to get though…

Also from the Byrd forum, sal and Ed Schempp are working on a Byrd Scimitar kind of folder. I do not know the current status but keep that in mind.

I would love to see Spyderco make a line of semi budget folders with FRN grips and blades in say Sandvik 14C28N steel.

I need to look more into this Scimitar design, sounds fun! Ty :)

[OnEdge]

No thank you, it’s an ethical decision on my part not to purchase from there. Nothing to do with politics, more to do with lack of economical morality

[ykspydiefan]

anyone that thinks there isn't good cutlery made outside of china is simply being lazy.

I'm a chef by trade and my knife roll has:

- USA made
- Switzerland made
- German made
- Thailand made
- Japan made
- Taiwan made

No chinese cutlery.

The best chef knives are japanese in my opinion.

You can get very high quality pieces in high hardness carbon or stainless with excellent geometry for a very reasonable price when you compare against what we pay for our 40th 3" folder.

There's a lot of US based makers that put out quality chef knives. Whether production companies like Spyderco or Ontario,or custom makers like LT Wright,Landi, etc.

Kitchen knives for many people often see some of the most frequent use but are probably the most neglected category by knife enthusiasts. Go figure.

I'm moderately slow on replies recently .

Can we include Canada, please. North Arm, Skaha, and Grissimo. Grohmann, Canadian Belt Knife.

[VandymanG]

I’d say Spyderco is still the industry leader in all its locations but one. The one that seems to be lagging behind is China. I’ve spent a lot of time looking at other knives from other companies producing knives out of China since @sal started this thread. And quite a few have better knife steel options and better handle material options. Sometimes both on the same knife. They also seem to have caught up on quality. I also found that out of the knives that were $100 or less the Spyderco knives cost more while offering less quality material wise. I have no doubt that the craftsmanship is top notch but the material being used is lagging behind.

[8th_Note]

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Mantra 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.

Thanx,

sal

I have no issue at all with buying Chinese made knives, so long as the quality is there. I really like some of the things makers like Vosteed, Kizer, Kansept/Tenable, We/Civivi, Artisan/CJRB, and Miguron are doing these days. And I own knives from all of these makers and will probably buy more too.

I also own 2 Tenacious, a Resilience, and a couple of Byrds from Spyderco, and they're incredible knives for the price point. I will definitely be buying the Mantra 4 and the new Gooney, and I'll probably get a Button-Up too.

I think Spyderco is making a smart move to offer more "value line" knives that are on par with what the best Chinese brands are doing. Those brands are hot right now, so why not leverage their ability to make world-class budget knives for Spyderco? You'll probably get some new customers who will be happy to pay $65 for a Mantra 4 flipper, but would not buy a $200 PM2 today. But once they get that 1st Spyderco in hand, they'll be much more likely to get one of your premium models in the future.

Edit to add: I agree with one of the previous posts on this thread that Spyderco should add the city of manufacture to the Chinese models as well. A small detail, but it's something unique that Spyderco does and I would like to see it across the board.

[8th_Note]

Chinese knives are often liner lock, the worst of all locks, so on top of the "china" stigma, they usually feature my least preferred lock.

$80 is still too much for a Chinese knife especially considering their bottom tier steel.

Others like them, but they have zero appeal due to their low tier steel, typical liner lock, and perceived budget positioning due to their origin.

Spyderco is a premium brand and doesn't need to chase the low end market. It's crowded. Let others have the low end. The factory seems plenty busy anyways.

This take on Chinese made knives hasn't been true for 15 years. Maybe so for gas station knives. But the top tier Chinese makers are using the exact same high end steels you find on US made knives with excellent heat treats. And they offer cross bar locks, button locks, compression locks, plus many others. They contract with designers from all over the world to design their knives

I encourage you to go on BladeHQ and look at the models that brands like Vosteed and We/Civivi are offering.

[sal]

Hi 8th_Note,

I don't know that it's a good sign or not? I watched the Chinese makers put many American and European businesses out of business taking over their industries with cheaper Chinese products. Try to find makers in the US making many products that we used to make; appliances, hangers, etc.

We met with the House in DC years ago and there were a number of US makers that were the last in their industry to be made in the US, and they eventually folded.

The Yuan is 6/1 to the dollar. Would you be willing to pay 6 times the price for those Chinese products?

sal

[Snacktime]

@8th_Note you forgot Kunwu!

[Skar]

I do have some China knives.
I don’t think the quality is up there with Spyderco knives I have.
which Spyderco is almost all I carry.

However I have noticed there are a lot of Chinese products.
Hobby lobby is all China, they are doing quite well.

I don’t like it, I also attempt to avoid China products yet They are here to stay.

[Naperville]

I just resigned from Amazon to sell my house. Amazon wasn't paying the bills and nothing else came along so, that is the end of that.

In my job I opened hundreds of boxes every day, took the items out and placed them into circulation for sale at Amazon.

I'd speculate that more than 90% of the boxes that I opened while working at Amazon were from China. I was part of the Chinese machine. I saw a few boxes from Vietnam, India, Cambodia and even fewer from Europe every week. I was gobsmacked whenever I saw inventory from Europe.

This is going on at all large US retailers. Just my opinion, but I think China is dumping products on The West's markets and driving out manufacturers. This has been going on for 15 years.

The West, should immediately stop importing everything from China, and commit to a unified disconnect. It will be painful to get a hold of Tupperware for a year, but folks, it's just Tupperware. The more Chinese Tupperware The West buys, the larger China's military becomes.

The Chinese took over "Tupperware" yesterday. Next is Spyderco and whatever remains of The West's manufacturing.

[zhyla]

The West, should immediately stop importing everything from China, and commit to a unified disconnect. It will be painful to get a hold of Tupperware for a year, but folks, it's just Tupperware. The more Chinese Tupperware The West buys, the larger China's military becomes.

Step function economic strategies never do good things for anyone. You’d have to know a lot about the overall supply chain to have any guess at the total magnitude of economic disaster that would bring on us.

Remember when that Fukushima disaster happened? It took out some factories in Japan. It had an immediate ripple effect on products my then employer was fabricating stateside. There’s all kinds of little things produced only in Japan. Same for Taiwan.

And same for China.

Bummer about your job… which was made possible by China

[Naperville]

The West, should immediately stop importing everything from China, and commit to a unified disconnect. It will be painful to get a hold of Tupperware for a year, but folks, it's just Tupperware. The more Chinese Tupperware The West buys, the larger China's military becomes.

Step function economic strategies never do good things for anyone. You’d have to know a lot about the overall supply chain to have any guess at the total magnitude of economic disaster that would bring on us.

Remember when that Fukushima disaster happened? It took out some factories in Japan. It had an immediate ripple effect on products my then employer was fabricating stateside. There’s all kinds of little things produced only in Japan. Same for Taiwan.

And same for China.

Bummer about your job… which was made possible by China

China did not directly impact me. Well. They kept me employed. I quit the job to clean out the home. Looking for a quick sale and relocation. I would have to pay the first half of the property taxes in March of 2026 and I cannot come up with $5500, so SELL.

India had the greatest affect on my employment possibilities over my career. We live in a global marketplace, and bringing in millions of H1B tech support folks with Masters STEM degrees from India killed my career. I only have a bachelors and a few associate degrees in networking, all STEM, and unless I am willing to live in Silicon Valley in a studio, the job market is really tight.

All of the foreign H1Bs have wives with tech degrees too, and they all work. All of the foreign students pursuing STEM degrees work. This drives down wages and makes entry into the market difficult.

[zhyla]

bringing in millions of H1B tech support folks with Masters STEM degrees from India killed my career.

Yeah the tech support industry definitely changed from a pretty high paid career in the late 90’s to… do we actually pay them now? I have a friend that does desktop support at a local company, she makes an ok living but it’s small potatoes compared to software development.

I think there was a lot of software innovation in that space that eliminated the need for as many tech support people, so demand didn’t grow as the tech industry boomed over the last decade.

[Naperville]

bringing in millions of H1B tech support folks with Masters STEM degrees from India killed my career.

Yeah the tech support industry definitely changed from a pretty high paid career in the late 90’s to… do we actually pay them now? I have a friend that does desktop support at a local company, she makes an ok living but it’s small potatoes compared to software development.

I think there was a lot of software innovation in that space that eliminated the need for as many tech support people, so demand didn’t grow as the tech industry boomed over the last decade.

Although this is not a statistical point, a manager that I had for an employer in Illinois, from India came in on an H1B with a EE degree and said he could not hack it. He somehow quit the EE gig and landed at the co I worked at as a tech support manager. OK, well the corporations got a job filled at what cost? His wife worked in tech support as well. There were a few Americans on the staff that could have done his job. Not me, but they were there before the new manager showed up and were not promoted to manager.

A biotech that I worked at in Silicon Valley had at least 45 to 55 Chinese trained lab employees. There were a few American scientists employed to manage the lab crews. My own girlfriend in Silicon Valley had a biochem degree from China and a Masters in Laboratory Sciences from UCSF.

At a networking company that I worked at in Silicon Valley, there were a few Americans. I worked in the NOC with a Chinese immigrant, a Vietnamese immigrant...not sure where others were from. The software development area was almost 100% India supplied.

STEM is not really a path right now for most Americans.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?

1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.

2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.

[Naperville]

Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?

1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.

2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.

That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!

[Naperville]

bringing in millions of H1B tech support folks with Masters STEM degrees from India killed my career.

Yeah the tech support industry definitely changed from a pretty high paid career in the late 90’s to… do we actually pay them now? I have a friend that does desktop support at a local company, she makes an ok living but it’s small potatoes compared to software development.

I think there was a lot of software innovation in that space that eliminated the need for as many tech support people, so demand didn’t grow as the tech industry boomed over the last decade.

You are so correct. I just received a placement offer for a Senior Desktop Support position, 12 months of full-time work in Santa Clara, CA, at $20 to $23/hour and you have to have 5 years of experience in Linux/MAC/Windows endpoint support!!!!!

At those wages, I doubt you could even afford to live in your car in Silicon Valley.

[ykspydiefan]

Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?

1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.

2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.

That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!

Following already posted logic regarding currency. The Philippines Peso is 58 to 1 USD.

So, is any one really going to pay 58 times for the same knife?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?

1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.

2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.

That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!

Yes! Me too!

I showed a Spyderco Endura ( my Foliage Green Endura 4) and the Centofante 3 to a Filipino guy who also likes knives, and who owns many of their local produced blades, and he loves them. He said he believes with the right equipment and training they can produce quality knives at reasonably low prices.

[Naperville]

Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?

1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.

2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.

That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!

Following already posted logic regarding currency. The Philippines Peso is 58 to 1 USD.

So, is any one really going to pay 58 times for the same knife?

58 to 1! I never imagined. How can such an impoverished country with no assets have such a strong currency?