China

[Brock O Lee]

...have the city name on the blade, pretty please The city name just does something psychologically for adding a bit of "soul" and character to the knife. It makes it more local and connected to the people who actually made it, and less focused on a nation-state. When I talk about my Spyderco collection, I don't have USA-made knives and Japan-made knives and Taiwan-made knives. I have Golden knives, Seki knives, and Taichung knives. It really does make a difference, for me at least.

This is a good suggestion Ryan. I agree.

[Enactive]

...have the city name on the blade, pretty please The city name just does something psychologically for adding a bit of "soul" and character to the knife. It makes it more local and connected to the people who actually made it, and less focused on a nation-state. When I talk about my Spyderco collection, I don't have USA-made knives and Japan-made knives and Taiwan-made knives. I have Golden knives, Seki knives, and Taichung knives. It really does make a difference, for me at least.

This is a good suggestion Ryan. I agree.

I also agree this is a great suggestion, one of the best insights in the thread. I had meant to comment earlier. Thanks, Ryan and Hans.

[sal]

Most of the makers are in Yang Jiang, so the city name won't say much.

Eric discussed this with Phil Wilson as the cost of his knives, especially with premium steels, took the models out of reach of many and the beauty of the designs could not be appreciated by as many. Phil's models made in China are more popular.

A clear demonstration of why the Chinese keep the value of their Yuan low?

sal

[jwesley235]

I'm late to the party but as a Spyderco collector I prefer not to buy Chinese-made knives. I own ~45 Spydercos and only the Tenacious is made in China, and that was an impulse buy on a marked-down knife at the SFO. Chinese labor practices and their disregard of Intellectual Property (along with everything else listed above) makes me leery; maybe Spyderco's contractors in Yang Jiang are the best paying, most honest knife makers in China. They're still in China.

[sal]

That's kinda the problem and the purpose of this thread. We've been working with some of them for more than 20 years. 2nd generation for some.

In the early days, we caught a few makers selling out the back door, and we dropped them. If we even get a hint that we're being betrayed, we stop working with the maker. I think there is mutual respect with the makers and Spyderco.

sal
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

"Loyalty before all else, except honor".

[Snacktime]

@Sal how many other brand Chinese knives do you have?

[sal]

Hi Snacktime,

Just the "byrd" brand and the "economy Spyderco's". Originally, we just planned for the "byrd" brand, but the market kinda required that we add Spyderco's. A long story.

sal

[Jimandchris2]

So very grateful for to see this. Sal, sir, you do you.

[Snacktime]

@Sal you need to buy a few knives for research and testing. You need a base line of what your competitors are doing.

[WilliamMunny]

I have been thinking about this one hard and have and read about half the thread. My thoughts, trying not to be political.

Idealistically: China is not anyone's friend, nothing of any significance should be made for the US in China to including Spyderco knives. Manufacturing should move to North America, Europe or even Central/South America with nations that are more aligned with the United States.

Realistically: The US government and citizens have embraced Chinese manufacturing to save money regardless of potential national threats and humanitarian abuses. Just look at how our society has embraced Temu, Wish, AliExpress, etc, even after COVID seeing the strangle hold they have on us with even basic things such as masks let alone the current monopoly they have on rare earth materials.

Sal, with this in mind, anyone who can make your knives to the quality you demand for the best price should be used, to include China. If you don't, other manufactures will, and you will no longer be as competitive. Until the playing field is leveled and made fair, I don't think you have another option but to manufacture in China to stay competitive on your budget knives. The United States and world need to make a stand and stop funding a country that is against our best interests. As a whole if you could make the same knife for $150 in the US, $125 in Mexico or $90 in China, most people will take the cheapest option for the same exact thing. Not to say people have bad intentions but the dollar really doesn't go far anymore, and people need to save where they can.

[Red Leader]

@Sal you need to buy a few knives for research and testing. You need a base line of what your competitors are doing.

I would be really curious if maybe Spyderco is already doing this, and if they don’t have the very latest models, they should.

I don’t make the decision on China or no China, but if you are going to do China it has to be spectacular or it won’t keep up. The market is moving so fast and the competition in the $40-$80 range is probably the fiercest in the entire knife industry.

If you want some examples, the Tenable Fenrir for $64, the Ruike P801 for an amazing $25, Vosteed Racoon and Porcupine (can get them for under $60), you can get the S35VN AD10 for $70 right now. SRM-411 for under $30. Other new offerings from Real Steel, Kizer, Civivi, QSP, Miguron, Ganzo, Petrified Fish, CJRB, and many others. Many will have 14C28N/154CM/Nitro V as a standard offering.

Also, one more thing. I have seen people major influencers hammering on the Chinese based companies coming out with these budget knives on their heat treats, especially now as ‘HRC’ becomes more and more a mainstay in the knife community vernacular. Because the competition is so intense, most makers are looking for any little advantage they can get. In short, I wouldn’t count on Spyderco having much of a ‘but the heat treat…’ advantage in the coming future. Makers are going to soon start figuring that out, and then that main advantage will be lost.

[Gears_QQQ]

Sigh ok going to try and redirect this back to the original request by Sal. Please no politics as requested by @sal in the first post.

I have a question that has been percolating in the back of my mind. Does China have any premium, tool or super steels? Maybe @Larrin could weigh in on this? If China does have any of these steels why don’t they seem to be used for knives? I’d be more interested then. But would need to know the equivalent matching steels from around the globe or at least compared to the steels that Larrin has in his charts.

A little-known company called tuotown produces its own steel. Unfortunately, I can't tell you which ones, but the information is accurate

[RyanY]

Most of the makers are in Yang Jiang, so the city name won't say much.

Eric discussed this with Phil Wilson as the cost of his knives, especially with premium steels, took the models out of reach of many and the beauty of the designs could not be appreciated by as many. Phil's models made in China are more popular.

A clear demonstration of why the Chinese keep the value of their Yuan low?

sal

I believe most of the knife makers in Japan are in Seki City, but I still like Seki City on the blade of my Delica. Just my 2 cents. everything in the dollar store says "made in china" on it, none of it says made in "Yang Jiang". I think there is a small marketing perception thing here, and also would be more 'on brand' for Spyderco to keep the city name on all knives.

That said, I'll let it be as I am personally in the prefer to avoid Chinese production camp.

I will second Red Leader's points about the phenomenal competition in the $40-$80 range. Kizer and Vosteed are setting the bar painfully high at that price point, especially with the compression lock and axis lock patents having expired. If I have a budget of $150-$200 I will be buying a Spyderco almost without a doubt, but if my budget is $80 the decisions become difficult, especially if it is all coming out of China anyway.

I don’t make the decision on China or no China, but if you are going to do China it has to be spectacular or it won’t keep up. The market is moving so fast and the competition in the $40-$80 range is probably the fiercest in the entire knife industry.

If you want some examples, the Tenable Fenrir for $64, the Ruike P801 for an amazing $25, Vosteed Racoon and Porcupine (can get them for under $60), you can get the S35VN AD10 for $70 right now. SRM-411 for under $30. Other new offerings from Real Steel, Kizer, Civivi, QSP, Miguron, Ganzo, Petrified Fish, CJRB, and many others. Many will have 14C28N/154CM/Nitro V as a standard offering.

[ykspydiefan]

However this is rationalized, I do not think it is a currency issue. The Yuan has been closer to 7:1 for as long as I can find a chart.

Is regime change still an appropriate topic for discussion? There are still several posts suggesting it as a good idea.

Counterfeiting is idealistically easy to solve. The real problems is all the people who want top quality appearance at rock bottom price.

To solve counterfeiting; open every package, container, and bin at the point of entry, narrow entry points and defend your own boarders. It is easy to look at what comes in and be sure it matches to invoices and documentation. It is proving hard to stop China from sending counterfeits.

Practically, no one wants to pay to keep their supply lines safe, or their country safe.

[vivi]

Most of the makers are in Yang Jiang, so the city name won't say much.

Eric discussed this with Phil Wilson as the cost of his knives, especially with premium steels, took the models out of reach of many and the beauty of the designs could not be appreciated by as many. Phil's models made in China are more popular.

A clear demonstration of why the Chinese keep the value of their Yuan low?

sal

I believe most of the knife makers in Japan are in Seki City, but I still like Seki City on the blade of my Delica. Just my 2 cents. everything in the dollar store says "made in china" on it, none of it says made in "Yang Jiang". I think there is a small marketing perception thing here, and also would be more 'on brand' for Spyderco to keep the city name on all knives.

That said, I'll let it be as I am personally in the prefer to avoid Chinese production camp.

I will second Red Leader's points about the phenomenal competition in the $40-$80 range. Kizer and Vosteed are setting the bar painfully high at that price point, especially with the compression lock and axis lock patents having expired. If I have a budget of $150-$200 I will be buying a Spyderco almost without a doubt, but if my budget is $80 the decisions become difficult, especially if it is all coming out of China anyway.

I don’t make the decision on China or no China, but if you are going to do China it has to be spectacular or it won’t keep up. The market is moving so fast and the competition in the $40-$80 range is probably the fiercest in the entire knife industry.

If you want some examples, the Tenable Fenrir for $64, the Ruike P801 for an amazing $25, Vosteed Racoon and Porcupine (can get them for under $60), you can get the S35VN AD10 for $70 right now. SRM-411 for under $30. Other new offerings from Real Steel, Kizer, Civivi, QSP, Miguron, Ganzo, Petrified Fish, CJRB, and many others. Many will have 14C28N/154CM/Nitro V as a standard offering.

There are so many non chinese options across the globe at under $80 though. If you want examples I can list them.

[Snacktime]

I think the biggest draw for me lately has been collaboration. Chinese makers are now capitalizing on people in the industry to increase sales. The out sourcing of design over stealing intellectual property is becoming a bigger selling point.

David C Andersen from Knifecenter, Metalcomplex, Neeves Knives...

Through the process I have found brands I like and ones that I will never buy again. This has lead to $200+ Chinese knife purchases which is the whole purpose behind budget offerings. This reminds me I need to go buy a CJRB nanner.

Side note
The Phil Wilson Shelter Cove is just wrong, that is a lifetime item. Cheap fillet knives come from the commercial boat store or you buy a Mora. Once you go to the next step up which is something you won't drop over the side of a boat it becomes a lifetime item. I will never buy a China Fillet Knife that cost more than a Mora. Hence I have a custom USA made 440c fillet I bought for $100 with a contoured PM2 handle and kydex sheath.

[Red Leader]

There are so many non chinese options across the globe at under $80 though. If you want examples I can list them.

I 100% agree with you Vivi, which only compounds the issue for Spyderco selling Chinese knives at $75.


I picked up a Boker balisong and a brand new Kershaw Leek (second) for under $40. Both of these were made in USA. Heck the ‘Craftsman folding knife’ has a button compression lock, runs on bearings, and is under $20 and NOT made in China (Vietnam). Garbage steel, but it makes a great work beater.

There are plenty of others as well. I think for value, Mora leads the pack at non-Chinese production with many examples under $20. I picked up a Mora Robust for my son and daughter. I think they were, what, $12 each? Best in this value class. Everyone needs a Mora!


My $15 work beater:

[Blerv]

I respect that Spyderco makes knives all over the globe. It allows them to have far more SKU’s going without seemingly the fear that something will shift and they will risk shuttering the company.

I’m eying the Gooney. It would be my first Chinese Spyderco/Byrd product though I’ve gifted a lot of Tenacious’ to people. Frankly I’d have more Spyderco products built there but I don’t like a non-round hole and frankly they seem kind of boring. I’d buy a Phil Wilson but I can’t even find a way to use my Temp SE sprint.

It’s a shame that everything is politics these days. I also think in the modern consumeristic culture we are prone to buy replacements before stuff it is truly needed. I’m trying to enjoy my old cars and old Spyderco’s. I’ve yet to wear out a Spyderco so my 50 or so will be really difficult to get though…

[zhyla]

The Phil Wilson Shelter Cove is just wrong, that is a lifetime item. Cheap fillet knives come from the commercial boat store or you buy a Mora. Once you go to the next step up which is something you won't drop over the side of a boat it becomes a lifetime item. I will never buy a China Fillet Knife that cost more than a Mora. Hence I have a custom USA made 440c fillet I bought for $100 with a contoured PM2 handle and kydex sheath.

Curious, why? If the Bow River is any indication it's likely to be well made. Spyderco's Chinese knives are typically 2x the cost of what other companies would sell them for but I've not been disappointed yet. I don't fish so not interested in a Shelter Cove but I low key want a stack of Bow Riveres.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I respect that Spyderco makes knives all over the globe. It allows them to have far more SKU’s going without seemingly the fear that something will shift and they will risk shuttering the company.

I’m eying the Gooney. It would be my first Chinese Spyderco/Byrd product though I’ve gifted a lot of Tenacious’ to people. Frankly I’d have more Spyderco products built there but I don’t like a non-round hole and frankly they seem kind of boring. I’d buy a Phil Wilson but I can’t even find a way to use my Temp SE sprint.

It’s a shame that everything is politics these days. I also think in the modern consumeristic culture we are prone to buy replacements before stuff it is truly needed. I’m trying to enjoy my old cars and old Spyderco’s. I’ve yet to wear out a Spyderco so my 50 or so will be really difficult to get though…

Also from the Byrd forum, sal and Ed Schempp are working on a Byrd Scimitar kind of folder. I do not know the current status but keep that in mind.

I would love to see Spyderco make a line of semi budget folders with FRN grips and blades in say Sandvik 14C28N steel.