Zero play lockbacks - fact or fiction?

[J-man_46]

I think there's a difference in how we are testing. I test for blade play by hand by grasping the blade and wiggling in all directions. I use as much pressure as I can to check for lock rock in this way, and by that standard I would say I have several Seki and one Golden with "zero" lock rock. My Native Chief, surprisingly, does have a bit. My Native 5 LW, on the other had, does not. My LC Pac Salt II has a lot (and it bugs the heck out of me,) but most of my other Sekis are great once I've performed maintenance and applied loctite. My Chaparral has no discernible play in the blade and I've never disassembled it. I've got some triad locks too and while I feel they're insanely strong and tight, I've never felt that my Spydercos weren't good to go (except that dang Pac Salt, my H1 version is very tight.)

I can do the same test on mine and come up with the same results as my cutting board test.

I do have tri-ad folders with zero play. I have not tried the power lock yet.

Anyways here's a random assortment of lockbacks of mine being tested. Some are easier to hear than see, so turn up your volume. Those clicking noises are the locks moving around, its not from the cutting board.

https://streamable.com/kbbj86

The first one up surprised me. A heavily used Pacific 1, and it was among the tightest of the bunch. Not sure what changed in the locks to make the 2's seem to come with more play than the 1's.

You can see / hear the Chief has very nice lock-up, but there is still a bit of wiggle when I slice an apple.

Okay I must retract a bit after testing again. The Chaparral feels just like a triad lock- essentially a fixed blade when opened. Then, a Native 5 LW and a ZDP Delica that are so close to perfect I really can’t tell if I’m flexing the FRN or if it’s rocking. All the rest have noticeable play on the cutting board, as well as when I try real hard by hand.

Interesting to see a lone triad lock in the picture. I actually have the same color Broken Skull. Broken in so smooth there isn't any issue with the strong backspring. Still no blade play after 1-2 years of hard use.

[kennethsime]

I don't know about ZERO, but I will say that my Native 5 LW has a lot less play in it than any of my Seki knives. I don't think it's any more or less safe to use, but it does lock in there more.

[Doc Dan]

I've got some Triad locks from Cold Steel with zero play no matter how hard I push. I have a couple of Chaparrals without any play in any direction. These knives all have the added benefit of a stop pin.

I have a Manix 2 backlock that has no blade play using considerable hand strength, but it has just a barely perceptible amount when pushing very hard into a cutting board...lock rock. It is so minuscule you have to be looking for it to see it, but it is there.

I think all back locks should have a stop pin.

[Holland]

I've got some Triad locks from Cold Steel with zero play no matter how hard I push. I have a couple of Chaparrals without any play in any direction. These knives all have the added benefit of a stop pin.

I have a Manix 2 backlock that has no blade play using considerable hand strength, but it has just a barely perceptible amount when pushing very hard into a cutting board...lock rock. It is so minuscule you have to be looking for it to see it, but it is there.

I think all back locks should have a stop pin.

100%

[awa54]

I'm pretty sure that a true "zero play" back/mid lock is a physical impossibility, as the mating surfaces need to have at least a tiny amount of clearance in order to move against each other.

That said, the Golden LBs I own (N5, N5LW and M2LB) are all exceptionally solid, with no obvious lock rock and no feeling of blade movement even when cutting hard media. My Chaps are in that same league as well, but the locks are much tighter as far as ease of manipulation when compared to the Golden models. I've also had several Japanese made Spydies with very solid lockup, though the majority display mild to moderate lock rock and the worst (still far.from sloppy lockup) can be felt to have blade movement under heavy loads.

This is like the blade play... Bearings can approach zero play, well executed bushings/washers can too with careful adjustment, but really, if you put enough side-load on the blade it *will* deflect at least microscopically (this of course assumes the pivot is adjusted so the blade can move without significant drag).

I voted "other".

[Evil D]

I think all back locks should have a stop pin.

Yes. Literally every lock design, and do them just like the Chaparral has, with the pin going through the tang and traveling along grooves in the liners.

[JRinFL]

I don't believe traditional back locks can have zero play. I believe Sal when he said, years ago now, that it is inherent in the lock design. Testing a couple of mine here confirms that statement.

It is a non-issue for me unless it is excessive like on my Siren. Even so, it is not unsafe to use.

[steelcity16]

The first one up surprised me. A heavily used Pacific 1, and it was among the tightest of the bunch. Not sure what changed in the locks to make the 2's seem to come with more play than the 1's.

I don't have my Pac Salt 1s anymore, but my H1 SE Pac Salt 2 has the tightest lockup of my many Seki backlock models. I no longer have any Natives either, but I remember they were all pretty solid, especially the LWs. There is really no perceptible play (to me at least) in my H1 SE Pac Salt 2.

[FRNFanboy]

Just picked up a Rex 45 Chief. No play of any kind, action is light and quick.

[Trav64]

For years I've heard about Golden lockbacks exhibiting no play.

I'm still on the quest for an example.

I've been carrying and using Golden made lockbacks since the $40 Walmart Native 1. I've had four C95 Manix lockbacks, four or five Natives from gen 1-3, I've handled a few Chinooks from gen 1-3, handled Native 5's and S30V Chiefs and the Manix 2 lockback and Chaps, I own a Siren that's seen a lot of use, and my latest folder, the Rex45 Chief, is yet another Golden lockback.

In those 15 or so years of using Golden lockbacks, I have yet to handle one with zero play.

Now, they typically have a bit less than my Japanese models like the Police 1-4, Calypso, Caly 3, Pacific Salt 1-2 etc. They all lock up securely and have never failed me and I'm not at all bothered by a hint of lock rock. I am 100% happy with these lockbacks as is.

However...

After seeing these claims for years from forum members I trust and respect, I'd be lying if I claimed this wasn't in the back of my head niggling at me any time I handle a new Golden lockback.

At this point I'm convinced you folks simply aren't checking very hard.

I find it difficult to believe Golden makes a zero play lockback when all 40+ examples I've owned and all 150+ examples I've handled do have vertical play.

What say you?

Only spyderco lockback I have is my newly acquired native chief rex 45, if there is slop in the lock up, I can't tell...yet well see after some use.

[MFlovejp]

I can add another to the list of “no discernible play” and that is the Centofante 3. Thing is solid as a rock and my how it slices.

[dj moonbat]

If there’s no such thing as zero play, there’s definitely “play escaping detection by the test equipment.” If the blade on my Rockjumper moves in any direction, it’s too subtle for my fingertips or eyeballs to pick up on.

[yalel]

It is an old item I know but I recently acquired a Native 5 in G10 and FRN and those had no lock rock at all . I replaced the scales with Micarta scales and …voila, ….LockRock was there. So i started to investigate what difference in the after market scales made the difference. I found out that is all a matter of tolerance in the cutting detail of the scales . The little holes that house the pin that goes through the lockbar on the inside of the scales that sit near top end of the scales where you see the little silver point coming out of the scales from the outside. When those “pockets” are not making that pivot pin fit tight you will have lockrock. I wrapped part of the pin ( only around the wider part of it, not the thinner pointy parts that are visible from the outside) on both side that goes through into the scales with plumber tape ( very finnicky job with a pincet and a appr. 1 mm wide stroke that goes around 2-3 times in my case) hence making the fit of the pin into the scales tight. ( slightly pressing was needed now) I am not native English so I don’t know if I use all the correct words and phrasings but I guess you guys understand what I want to explain. I hope it might help some of you experiencing lock rock wirh a back lock. I got rid of that lock rock in mine

[yalel]

One more time in other words maybe :
“The lockbar pivots perfectly around the center of the pin, so that’s not the issue. The problem is the fit of the pin in the handle scale recesses on either side of the lockbar. On some scales these recesses aren’t tight enough, which allows slight movement of the pin and causes lock rock. By wrapping a little plumber’s tape around the pin only at those contact points with the scale recesses (not around the center where the lockbar pivots), the fit becomes snug and the lock rock disappears.”

[Brock O Lee]

Chaparral (with the stop pin in the blade)

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

If zero literally means zero, then fiction. There will always be some amount of play (whether it's perceptible or not) with any type of folding knife.

That said, the Chaparral and its stop pin construction really does feel like there's zero blade play. It's awesome and everyone should try one.

[Tristan_david2001]

[Paul Ardbeg]

You can stop looking....ZERO play on this one! However, my fluted Ti version with a lot of force on it does have minute bit of play. The Ti version is solid.

[Ramonade]

Native 5, Chaparral and Native Chief. But they can come out of the box with some minuscule lock rock anyways. I've had dozens (more) of Native 5s over the years and most were rock solid, 2 or 3 of them had a bit of lock rock if you really searched for it.

Same with my Native chief in Rex45, but considering the long blade it's pretty darn impressive anyways.

As for the Chaparral, I've had the stepped Ti : no movement, the CF one : no movement (even with the scales i made for it afterwards) and the Sun&Moon : a little bit of lock rock.

If it is a really important thing for the buyer, buying in person would be cool !

[vivi]

my chiefs have all been very close to no play, but not quite. definitely less than my pacific salts though.