Zero play lockbacks - fact or fiction?

[vivi]

For years I've heard about Golden lockbacks exhibiting no play.

I'm still on the quest for an example.

I've been carrying and using Golden made lockbacks since the $40 Walmart Native 1. I've had four C95 Manix lockbacks, four or five Natives from gen 1-3, I've handled a few Chinooks from gen 1-3, handled Native 5's and S30V Chiefs and the Manix 2 lockback and Chaps, I own a Siren that's seen a lot of use, and my latest folder, the Rex45 Chief, is yet another Golden lockback.

In those 15 or so years of using Golden lockbacks, I have yet to handle one with zero play.

Now, they typically have a bit less than my Japanese models like the Police 1-4, Calypso, Caly 3, Pacific Salt 1-2 etc. They all lock up securely and have never failed me and I'm not at all bothered by a hint of lock rock. I am 100% happy with these lockbacks as is.

However...

After seeing these claims for years from forum members I trust and respect, I'd be lying if I claimed this wasn't in the back of my head niggling at me any time I handle a new Golden lockback.

At this point I'm convinced you folks simply aren't checking very hard.

I find it difficult to believe Golden makes a zero play lockback when all 40+ examples I've owned and all 150+ examples I've handled do have vertical play.

What say you?

[The Meat man]

Nope. I've never owned or handled a Spyderco lockback that didn't have at least a tiny bit of up-and-down play.

[dan31]

As we a folding knife is not a fixed blade. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could detect flex in virtually any lock design, especially after repeated attempts to check for play. My Native 5 cruwear has very tight lock up and I would say it has no play being reasonable in use.

[vivi]

The question isn't whether you notice play in use or not.

The question is, does any vertical play whatsoever exist in your golden lockbacks?

If you push the edge into a hard surface like a cutting board with great force is there vertical movement at the lock interface?

All of my Spyderco lockbacks show some.

My Native Chief locks up very tight in comparison to my Police 4, but it still has a hint of vertical wiggle using regular pressure on a cutting board.

[Sharp Guy]

I often say that most of my Spyderco lock backs (especially the Native 5's from Golden) don't exhibit any up/down or side/side blade play. I open the blade and push the edge into a block of hardwood and there no perceptible movement from the amount of pressure I'm applying. But based on what others have said there pretty much has to be at least a tiny bit just so the lock can work. I suppose I just have to push a lot harder on that blade in the hardwood block to feel the play. I have no practical reason to be applying that much pressure on a blade. If I need that much pressure when cutting something I'll use a different tool. So I guess I'll never know

[ladybug93]

the native salt is the closest i have. it still can wiggle a little and i had some weird issues with it early on that were probably related to fine sand in the pivot or something. i imagine the native with g10 and liners would be the most solid, but i didn't care for the balance on those. also, the manix backlock felt like a beast, but i don't remember if it had any play. i only held the last two i mentioned for a minute when visiting sfo a few years ago.

the only "backlocks" i've ever known to have zero play for sure are triad locks.

[skeeg11]

What I'm about to say may seem implausible, but the two (Hawkbill and Rescue) Byrd lock backs I have lock up like bank vaults and surpass my Spyderco lock backs significantly. Something to be said for sturdy liners if you don't mind the weight penalty. If Sal ever decided to branch out of the budget line in his Byrds and use better steels (even improved Chinese steels) I would be very interested.

[Abyss_Fish]

native 5 g10

[wrdwrght]

Golden (and Taichung) midlocks are tighter than Moki or Seki City ones in my experience.

Their vertical play being much less noticeable to me—less so in the Lil’ Native than the much longer Chief—my OCD tendency stays thankfully quiet and the fiction seems real, but a fiction nonetheless.

ETA: Actually, my Chaparral has NO blade play whatsoever.

[Evil D]

My Native 5s are about as close as you're going to get. The only knives I have that lock tighter are my Autonomy, Southard, Mantra 1, and probably some I'm forgetting but the Native 5 is among the best lockups I have of any lock. The Southard and Mantra are both on bearings and can be tightened to the point of having zero flex in any direction and still swing freely.

[kerrcobra]

My Native 5 Cruwear w/smooth G10 and my new Rex45 Native Chief both appear to not have any vertical lock rock. I'll test by pushing the edge into a cutting board later and come back here to edit & confirm or deny.

[Harkwit]

Most of the lockbacks I get don't have vertical play, actually. I've only noticed one Delica that had it (Damascus sabre grind model) of the 7 I've handled. I currently have a S90V Chief in my hand and no matter how much force I put on the spine, there's no play. I'd say if you have one with play, there's a defect in the lip of the lockbar and you should exchange it.

[ChrisinHove]

I cannot detect any in my N5 or NC, but I can in each of my Seki & Moki lockbacks.

[BLUETYPEII]

Of the 8 Spyderco lockback knives I own
2 Golden 1 Byrd the rest Seki City... only my Pacific salt has blade play and I’m honestly going to send it back for warranty repair because it just bothers me.

[MFlovejp]

I think there's a difference in how we are testing. I test for blade play by hand by grasping the blade and wiggling in all directions. I use as much pressure as I can to check for lock rock in this way, and by that standard I would say I have several Seki and one Golden with "zero" lock rock. My Native Chief, surprisingly, does have a bit. My Native 5 LW, on the other had, does not. My LC Pac Salt II has a lot (and it bugs the heck out of me,) but most of my other Sekis are great once I've performed maintenance and applied loctite. My Chaparral has no discernible play in the blade and I've never disassembled it. I've got some triad locks too and while I feel they're insanely strong and tight, I've never felt that my Spydercos weren't good to go (except that dang Pac Salt, my H1 version is very tight.)

[vivi]

I think there's a difference in how we are testing. I test for blade play by hand by grasping the blade and wiggling in all directions. I use as much pressure as I can to check for lock rock in this way, and by that standard I would say I have several Seki and one Golden with "zero" lock rock. My Native Chief, surprisingly, does have a bit. My Native 5 LW, on the other had, does not. My LC Pac Salt II has a lot (and it bugs the heck out of me,) but most of my other Sekis are great once I've performed maintenance and applied loctite. My Chaparral has no discernible play in the blade and I've never disassembled it. I've got some triad locks too and while I feel they're insanely strong and tight, I've never felt that my Spydercos weren't good to go (except that dang Pac Salt, my H1 version is very tight.)

I can do the same test on mine and come up with the same results as my cutting board test.

I do have tri-ad folders with zero play. I have not tried the power lock yet.

Anyways here's a random assortment of lockbacks of mine being tested. Some are easier to hear than see, so turn up your volume. Those clicking noises are the locks moving around, its not from the cutting board.

https://streamable.com/kbbj86

The first one up surprised me. A heavily used Pacific 1, and it was among the tightest of the bunch. Not sure what changed in the locks to make the 2's seem to come with more play than the 1's.

You can see / hear the Chief has very nice lock-up, but there is still a bit of wiggle when I slice an apple.

[Wartstein]

Vivi, didn't you start a similar thread quite recently?
Anyway, as I said there and I stand by it:
My Chap FRN does have zero up and down play indeed (but also an internal stop pin)
And it's not a Golden lockback of course

[kobold]

My Natives and Chaparrals (see my signature) have zero play. So both Taichung and Golden are good in my book. Which means none of my :spyder: back locks have play. Yet I voted "Yes, from Golden." for the lack of a better option. I wish there was an option saying "All OK" or "Fact", because it feels biased this way.

[VashHash]

My N5 exhibits no lock rock that I notice in my usage. If I squeeze the handle really hard my hand will start to disengage the lock. Just a little though and I rarely squeeze that knife that hard. If I grip at the choil then this doesn't happen. I'm wondering how hard you're bearing down on the knife for that to happen. If I press hard enough my hand will disengage the lock and I'll get play. But I'm pressing really really hard on a hickory handle to do that.

[vivi]

My N5 exhibits no lock rock that I notice in my usage. If I squeeze the handle really hard my hand will start to disengage the lock. Just a little though and I rarely squeeze that knife that hard. If I grip at the choil then this doesn't happen. I'm wondering how hard you're bearing down on the knife for that to happen. If I press hard enough my hand will disengage the lock and I'll get play. But I'm pressing really really hard on a hickory handle to do that.

The play I experience is independent of forces acting on the lock release.

The pressure I'm using is no more than I use when halving an apple or whittling a stick. Just normal usage type of pressure.