Did Spyderco introduce "Super Steel"?

[JBoone]

Beat per post above. Was going to say my favorite advertising mumbojumbo was “surgical stainless” whatever that means.

[Scandi Grind]

That is true. There waa a knife historian who claimed all clip point blades are Bowie knives.

Clip points are the general characteristic that people define Bowies by, but the irony of the name "Bowie" is that nobody knows what the knife Jim Bowie used in the sandbar duel looked like. Many knife makers took advantage of the legend of Jim Bowie though and began calling whatever knife pattern they happened to be making a "Bowie Knife" despite not having any real idea what that knife might have looked like.

The most reliable descrption we seem to have is sparse, given by Jim Bowie's older brother Rezin as the original design elements for the knife he likely gifted to Jim. "The length of the blade was nine and one-quarters inches, its width one and one-half inches, single edged and not curved". Other than this, witnesses of the Sandbar Duel merely described it as looking like a "big butcher knife".

I don't suspect that this is in fact the original Bowie as claimed by actor Edwin Forrest who was supposedly given it by Jim Bowie himself, but I bet it looked very similar to this:

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Great points, Larrin and David and others. Thank you.
Two personal experiences on this.

First I want to say this.

Because of the super quality, actual caring and consideration for we customers and the quality control of the products, and such amazing and truly cool people like you, sal, Eric, Gail, Kristi, Michael and all the others, Spyderco is my Home Knife Brand. My foundational brand.
I know, some of my friends and critics say I often use too many words but I like to be clear.

That being stated, two experiences that support what you both said, Larrin and David:
1
I have not made a knife but I have spoken with many custom knife makers and have a book on custom knives from the early 1970s and it is as you said. Big focus on alloy type seems to have begun. In earlier literature like Sears Roebuck, Abercrombie and Fitch, and a range of catalogs and literature from the early 1960s back to the 1800s, no real mention of alloy types or alloy composition was mentioned. They used slang like terms like " bee sting sharp crucible steel" or "pot metal" to disparage their competition. I fou

2 I remember the tv Ginsu commercials and Home Shopping Network shows you mention, David. Remember how they popularized the term "Surgical Steel"?

Thank you, sal, for being committed to quality control, and telling us what our knives are actually made of.

Also, the steel guide that Michael Janich works on is unique. After you began publishing that, other (un named) knife companies began printing their own, but nowhere as detailed as Spyderco's.

Larrin, I also want to thank you, sir, for showing us on your website and in your books that AUS8 and 8Cr13MoV are compositionally pretty much identical.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What defines a“super steel”?

Perhaps better than previous steel for general and specialized cutting chores? But that can still be subjective, for sure.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

Seems like the S35VN Tenacious would fit the bill.

I considered that model. I was going to buy that, but the thread about liner lock failures scared me. I would trust a Spyderco Liner Lock, so this one is still being considered. If I am willing to use that model, I am willing to recommend it. Thank you, good one there.

[Evil D]

I think it all changed in the '80s with (I'm not joking) Home Shopping Network, because prior to that most people had no idea what steel they had, it was just "carbon or stainless" but I think the HSN had so many knife segments talking about 440 this and 440 that, I think that's one of the first times that knife steel was pushed into people's living room and given a name and it has grown from there.

Of course I'm not saying nobody knew, just that the average buyer didn't know and the steel wasn't commonly advertised on the knife until around this time. I remember so many knives when I was a kid that either said STAINLESS or if you had a really cool knife it was SURGICAL STAINLESS because that just sounded so cool. I still have a Parker Cutlery balisong with super awesome surgical stainless.

I don't think I'd give credit to any one brand for this change, because it happened with other big names at the time too but I do think Spyderco has pushed the idea far more than any other brand and are definitely leading the pack with innovation regarding steel types.

The main shift was the rapid rise of custom knives in the USA in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The custom knifemakers were advertising steel type, such as Loveless introducing 154CM to the knife world and Moran reintroducing pattern-welded Damascus. This pushed the market and the factories started advertising steel type more often. HSN was just advertising what the knife companies were telling them.

I don't mean HSN were the reason anything progressed, I mean they're why most common people became aware of it. I can only speak for myself but in the beginning of the hobby for me I didn't know anything about custom knives or steels but I knew what 440 was. I think we're talking about two different parts of the knife buying community here, enthusiasts vs Joe Schmoe that just wanted a pocket knife and saw a cool one on TV.

[Larrin]

I think it all changed in the '80s with (I'm not joking) Home Shopping Network, because prior to that most people had no idea what steel they had, it was just "carbon or stainless" but I think the HSN had so many knife segments talking about 440 this and 440 that, I think that's one of the first times that knife steel was pushed into people's living room and given a name and it has grown from there.

Of course I'm not saying nobody knew, just that the average buyer didn't know and the steel wasn't commonly advertised on the knife until around this time. I remember so many knives when I was a kid that either said STAINLESS or if you had a really cool knife it was SURGICAL STAINLESS because that just sounded so cool. I still have a Parker Cutlery balisong with super awesome surgical stainless.

I don't think I'd give credit to any one brand for this change, because it happened with other big names at the time too but I do think Spyderco has pushed the idea far more than any other brand and are definitely leading the pack with innovation regarding steel types.

The main shift was the rapid rise of custom knives in the USA in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The custom knifemakers were advertising steel type, such as Loveless introducing 154CM to the knife world and Moran reintroducing pattern-welded Damascus. This pushed the market and the factories started advertising steel type more often. HSN was just advertising what the knife companies were telling them.

I don't mean HSN were the reason anything progressed, I mean they're why most common people became aware of it. I can only speak for myself but in the beginning of the hobby for me I didn't know anything about custom knives or steels but I knew what 440 was. I think we're talking about two different parts of the knife buying community here, enthusiasts vs Joe Schmoe that just wanted a pocket knife and saw a cool one on TV.

No, I am saying that custom knives led to factories that would publish the steel types that would lead to cheap knives advertising the steel type. HSN would just be one of the stores selling the knives with the steel listed on them.

[sal]

I have to agree with Larrin about the Custom Makers. I was a member of the Custom Knifemakers guild for many years. An associate member mostly marketing sharpeners. But I spoke with the makers quite bit and that's how I learned about many of the blade steels back in the '80's & '90's. That got me started.

We've always promoted the Custom Makers and we've done many collaborations with the Custom Guys.

sal

[Stuart Ackerman]

I have to agree with Larrin about the Custom Makers. I was a member of the Custom Knifemakers guild for many years. An associate member mostly marketing sharpeners. But I spoke with the makers quite bit and that's how I learned about many of the blade steels back in the '80's & '90's. That got me started.

We've always promoted the Custom Makers and we've done many collaborations with the Custom Guys.

sal

For which we thank you, Sir!

[Infinite Zero]

For which we thank you, Sir!

Speaking of “Super Steel,” here’s a guy who knew that 440c could run circles around some of these steels when cast into a mold rather than use a traditional grinding process. Chemical makeup of the alloy is only part of the equation.

The Serrata will always be my favorite fixed blade.

[Stuart Ackerman]

It is only because David Boye did the initial work in casting 440C, that I did my work.

I am eternally grateful to Mr Boye.

And for spreading the idea worldwide, I am eternally grateful to Mr Glesser.

[sal]

Hey Stuart,

It's a beautiful piece, both the design, the material and the finished product. We thank you for giving us the opportunity to make such an "Outlier".

We also owe David Boye for his early experimentation, and his dent.

sal

[Makunochimaster]

steel can be only or good or stainless ©
(its not about powder steels)))

[N. Brian Huegel]

I remember a line called Rugged that was made in Japan in the late 1980s for the Remington (Shavers) Cutlery store chain that had "ATS-36" steel on the blade tang! Just advertizing foolery. https://www.ebay.com/itm/177179318457

nb