Did Spyderco introduce "Super Steel"?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Verify this for me, please. My understanding is that before sal and Spyderco along with greats like the late Al Mar, commercial knife blade steel was limited to 440 Series stainless (which some count as the first super steel). Sal and Al began to introduce stuff like the Aichi Utility Steel, AUS, series, the Gingami series, and later alloys like VG10. Before that Bob Loveless did work with 154 CM but his knives were custom so that does not count. Tool steel is out because I consider true Super Steel to require serious corrosion, rust resistance. So to me carbon tool steel is not part of this.

The one big super steel that came before those came out of none other than Scandinavia. The Swedish Sandvik 12C27 and the Finnish stainless uses by Fiskars and Hackman and others was, in my opinion, super steel.

This seems to be confirmed by experience and Dr. Larrin's books.

[navin johnson]

What defines a“super steel”?

[riclaw]

I'll get the popcorn.

[Mage7]

I'll get the popcorn.

Lots of butter, please

...I need to oil my tool steel.

[The Mastiff]

Tool steel is out because I consider true Super Steel to require serious corrosion, rust resistance. So to me carbon tool steel is not part of this.

The one big super steel that came before those came out of none other than Scandinavia. The Swedish Sandvik 12C27 and the Finnish stainless uses by Fiskars and Hackman and others was, in my opinion, super steel.

So steels including 15V and Rex 121 are not "super steel" but 12C27 is?

[JARHEAD]

I’m going to pull up a chair. Yall go ahead !

[Larrin]

It was relatively rare to advertise steel types prior to the 70s and 80s. Some would advertise “finest cutlery steel” or similar without specifying a grade. It makes sense because when you go buy a car or a microwave you’re not asking what steel grades they are using, a customer generally does not need or even want to know the materials used in their products. Gerber would advertise their knives as being made with high speed steel and that it was superior to other choices, perhaps they could be argued to be first. There are also some more obscure historical examples that would advertise things like vanadium steel or chromium steel. I believe the first steel grade mentioned by name I found in factory knives was a Gerber in 440C in the late 1960s. That was not the first use of 440C in factories and use of that steel in factory knives was relatively rare. I would have to check my book.

I would not count something as being “super” unless the company was actually advertising the steel type and that it was supposedly “super.” The first steels called “super” were 154CM and to a lesser extent 440C. That was in the 1970s. Spyderco was not the first factory to use them as they did not exist yet. 154CM was used quite rarely in factory knives such as a Schrade collaboration with Loveless. ATS-34 became more common in factory knives later, perhaps due to better size availability and the rise of Japanese factories. Spyderco was the first or among the first factories to use many steels. If your arbitrary cutoff for “super steel” is PM steel then you could make an argument for Spyderco being the first but that probably isn’t where I would draw my line.

I wouldn’t count AUS or GIN grades as being particularly any more “super” than anything else being used at the time.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Tool steel is out because I consider true Super Steel to require serious corrosion, rust resistance. So to me carbon tool steel is not part of this.

The one big super steel that came before those came out of none other than Scandinavia. The Swedish Sandvik 12C27 and the Finnish stainless uses by Fiskars and Hackman and others was, in my opinion, super steel.

So steels including 15V and Rex 121 are not "super steel" but 12C27 is?

You convinced me, post updated. Yes! Super Tool Steel alloys are included.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

It was relatively rare to advertise steel types prior to the 70s and 80s. Some would advertise “finest cutlery steel” or similar without specifying a grade. It makes sense because when you go buy a car or a microwave you’re not asking what steel grades they are using, a customer generally does not need or even want to know the materials used in their products. Gerber would advertise their knives as being made with high speed steel and that it was superior to other choices, perhaps they could be argued to be first. There are also some more obscure historical examples that would advertise things like vanadium steel or chromium steel. I believe the first steel grade mentioned by name I found in factory knives was a Gerber in 440C in the late 1960s. That was not the first use of 440C in factories and use of that steel in factory knives was relatively rare. I would have to check my book.

I would not count something as being “super” unless the company was actually advertising the steel type and that it was supposedly “super.” The first steels called “super” were 154CM and to a lesser extent 440C. That was in the 1970s. Spyderco was not the first factory to use them as they did not exist yet. 154CM was used quite rarely in factory knives such as a Schrade collaboration with Loveless. ATS-34 became more common in factory knives later, perhaps due to better size availability and the rise of Japanese factories. Spyderco was the first or among the first factories to use many steels. If your arbitrary cutoff for “super steel” is PM steel then you could make an argument for Spyderco being the first but that probably isn’t where I would draw my line.

I wouldn’t count AUS or GIN grades as being particularly any more “super” than anything else being used at the time.

Thank you for this!
I am still amazed at how 440 series and 440 C really was such a widespread blade steel. It really went the extra mile. As you know some heat treats led to better variations.

Which current steel would you say is the "440C of the 2000 to 2050 AD" period? I hope Eric Drexler is right and diamondoid compounds become economical in the later 2020s to 2060s snd are then upended by Picotech and Femtotech as Ray Kurzweil predicts.


Pico Tech = direct control and alteration of the electron shells to create custom made atoms.

Nanotech = direct control of atom and molecule bonds

Femto Tech = direct control of Atomic Nucleus and components like protons, neutrons, quarks, gluons.

Nano is 10^-9 meters

Pico is 10^-10 to 13 meters

Femto is 10^-15 meters

I have total confidence that regardless of time frame, human science will conquer all of those.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

[Scandi Grind]

Defining "super steel" seems like defining "bowie knife," everybody seems to have a slightly different idea of what qualifies. I have a general idea of what I consider super steel in a modern context, but it is totally arbitrary. I think the name itself is basically arbitrary and was coined probably as an advertising pitch. That is also why people started calling things bowie knives, it was just for advertising, which helps explain why it has no solid definition.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Defining "super steel" seems like defining "bowie knife," everybody seems to have a slightly different idea of what qualifies. I have a general idea of what I consider super steel in a modern context, but it is totally arbitrary. I think the name itself is basically arbitrary and was coined probably as an advertising pitch. That is also why people started calling things bowie knives, it was just for advertising, which helps explain why it has no solid definition.

That is true. There was a knife historian who claimed all clip point blades are Bowie knives.

[Naperville]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

I'm biased toward the Native Chief so I suggest either of the two:
- Spyderco Native Chief in MagnaCut PE or SE
- Spyderco Native Chief in S110V

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

I'm biased toward the Native Chief so I suggest either of the two:
- Spyderco Native Chief in MagnaCut PE or SE
- Spyderco Native Chief in S110V

I saw an online picture of the MagnaCut version you suggest. Wow. Beautiful and functional knife!
Now I see why you prefer these. Perfect design.

[Naperville]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

I'm biased toward the Native Chief so I suggest either of the two:
- Spyderco Native Chief in MagnaCut PE or SE
- Spyderco Native Chief in S110V

I saw an online picture of the MagnaCut version you suggest. Wow. Beautiful and functional knife!
Now I see why you prefer these. Perfect design.

Hot-Diggity-Dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buy moar! One Spyderco Native Chief for everyone!

[riclaw]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

Seems like the S35VN Tenacious would fit the bill.

[Doc Dan]

Spyderco and Benchmade are the two companies that I remember most that specifically advertised the steel that they used.

[8th_Note]

If a friend who is not knife knowledgable at all and who is used to cheap flipper knives, asks me which Spyderco model should he buy that has a "super steel", which do you all suggest?

I would suggest the Para 3 LW in Magnacut is "The" super steel Spyderco to recommend to a non knife friend that is interested in getting into the hobby. It will blow the mind of anyone who's prior knife experiences consist of their grandfather's slip joint or mall-ninja-quality folders.

[Evil D]

I think it all changed in the '80s with (I'm not joking) Home Shopping Network, because prior to that most people had no idea what steel they had, it was just "carbon or stainless" but I think the HSN had so many knife segments talking about 440 this and 440 that, I think that's one of the first times that knife steel was pushed into people's living room and given a name and it has grown from there.

Of course I'm not saying nobody knew, just that the average buyer didn't know and the steel wasn't commonly advertised on the knife until around this time. I remember so many knives when I was a kid that either said STAINLESS or if you had a really cool knife it was SURGICAL STAINLESS because that just sounded so cool. I still have a Parker Cutlery balisong with super awesome surgical stainless.

I don't think I'd give credit to any one brand for this change, because it happened with other big names at the time too but I do think Spyderco has pushed the idea far more than any other brand and are definitely leading the pack with innovation regarding steel types.

[Larrin]

I think it all changed in the '80s with (I'm not joking) Home Shopping Network, because prior to that most people had no idea what steel they had, it was just "carbon or stainless" but I think the HSN had so many knife segments talking about 440 this and 440 that, I think that's one of the first times that knife steel was pushed into people's living room and given a name and it has grown from there.

Of course I'm not saying nobody knew, just that the average buyer didn't know and the steel wasn't commonly advertised on the knife until around this time. I remember so many knives when I was a kid that either said STAINLESS or if you had a really cool knife it was SURGICAL STAINLESS because that just sounded so cool. I still have a Parker Cutlery balisong with super awesome surgical stainless.

I don't think I'd give credit to any one brand for this change, because it happened with other big names at the time too but I do think Spyderco has pushed the idea far more than any other brand and are definitely leading the pack with innovation regarding steel types.

The main shift was the rapid rise of custom knives in the USA in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The custom knifemakers were advertising steel type, such as Loveless introducing 154CM to the knife world and Moran reintroducing pattern-welded Damascus. This pushed the market and the factories started advertising steel type more often. HSN was just advertising what the knife companies were telling them.