Price point….

[jegred2]

Ever since MAP was enacted, I really can't afford most of the knives. I just get the Value Line (Resillience, Tenacious), a LW model (Para 3 LW) or a Byrd brand knife (Cara Cara 2 G10)

The byrd line knives have awesome handle designs, if they had the Seki FRN and blade thickness I’d buy more. The Cara Cara 2 handle is a superior design to the Endura 4 in my book.

[zhyla]

Car prices are insane, especially for what you get for your money. I drive a '98 Grand Marquis and it's not because I can't afford a car payment lol. 7 years in towing opened my eyes to a LOT in the car world, even more than I knew from working on them.

Inflation adjust car prices at lower than they used to be.

Driving a car from the 90’s isn’t entirely foolhardy, but there’s 25 years of safety improvements that have resulted in much lower fatality rates. It’s worth an upgrade.

[Jeb]

Heck guys, the last new truck I bought I couldn't keep it from going into limp mode and the dealer, nor the manufacturer knew how to fix all the mess with check engine lights and the limp mode.

After a few months and less than 30k miles I lost the engine and they put a new engine in it. At that point I told them the warranty was over and I started making parts to fix all the parts that were not build well enough to use this truck.

Took me about a year and 40k$ to finish building this truck where it is now. Yes it's over built, yes it's considered old by today's standard. I would much rather jump in it to go get something than any of this new stuff.

This truck has two 5th wheel hitches in it and a class IV bumper hitch. In short, it's a big beast. I have had my last new truck if I get any say in the choice.

These new trucks are absolutely killer looking, they just have a killer price and I know they still have serious trouble with them unless you trade them off before you get 60k miles on them.

[Jesla]

Driving a car from the 90’s isn’t entirely foolhardy, but there’s 25 years of safety improvements that have resulted in much lower fatality rates. It’s worth an upgrade.

Hmmm…. My ‘98 Outback has… safety glass, seatbelts, headrest, front airbags, all wheel drive, 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes, factory fog lights, government mandated bumper and side intrusion protection, front and rear wipers and defrosters, steel belted radial tires and weather radio standard. I’m sure I have failed to name them all however I don’t want more explosives, such as side impact airbags or self tensioning seat belts in my car.

So what modern safety “features” am I missing?

[TkoK83Spy]

I definitely feel for the newer guys just getting into the hobby now. I look at all these new releases, some cool knives...but I'd rather go to lunch with my wife and provide food for my family for a week over the cost of a new knife that I don't need because I already have enough! Some of these guys out there still gobbling up every new release these days...more power to ya, but I think you're crazy! Do we really need a 15th Para 3 to sit in a sock drawer?? You do you, but I'm definitely priced out and all but lost interest in the hobby at this point. I miss the heyday of 2017-2021 or so, all those new steels/exclusives and RARELY were any of them over $200. This forum was really popping at that time too. Wondering if price increases have driven off a lot of the members here?

[zhyla]

Hmmm…. My ‘98 Outback has… safety glass, seatbelts, headrest, front airbags, all wheel drive, 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes, factory fog lights, government mandated bumper and side intrusion protection, front and rear wipers and defrosters, steel belted radial tires and weather radio standard. I’m sure I have failed to name them all however I don’t want more explosives, such as side impact airbags or self tensioning seat belts in my car.

So what modern safety “features” am I missing?

Curtain airbags which for some reason you don’t want. A couple decades of structural safety improvements. Seat backs that flex forward when you crash to prevent whiplash. Some cars have active restraints which it sounds like you’re opposed to.

And a lot of nannies annoy me but probably prevent some accidents.

The crash tests were updated over the years to add things like frontal offset tests, which influences manufacturers to design to prevent failures in those tests. Most pre-2010 cars are completely vulnerable to that type of crash.

[aicolainen]

Choose a knife you want and like at your price point but no need to carry on about a knife that is too expensive for your liking.

A basic Para 2 is $200. That’s about half the cost of a handgun. And things only go up from there. Telling people to not express their concerns about price just isn’t a practical thing to say IMO.

Yes, but you can buy a Tenacious with a better, thinner grind and more cutting edge for $56 if $200 for a Para 2 is too much for you. I don't know how many people you have shot lately but you may find more utility in a pocket knife than a handgun and it would therefore be better value.

Dan

Just like all knives aren’t used for self defense, all guns aren’t either.
And just like with knives, you can find even cheaper guns if you’re open to buying imports from Asia, Turkey etc.

It is hard to argue that most people will have more use for a knife in their day to day life, but when you need a gun for whatever reason there is usually no replacement.

I too find that knives are getting prohibitively expensive, especially here in Europe. It’s just how it is, and I’m not blaming Spyderco or any other maker for being greedy - it could very well be the price they have to ask to make a decent living, but as consumers we still have to compare cost of new knives with everything else we want or need, and then it becomes quite clear that the real killer is the opportunity cost and not so much the price itself.

Circling back to the gun comparison, and this could be a Norwegian/European phenomenon, but the secondary market for guns is a real buyers market. You can get fantastic deals on used guns, whereas the secondary knife market is dominated by sellers trying to make a profit on rare or discontinued knives. So in practice the equation is even more in favor of guns.
Then again, if you’re not an enthusiast and only buy the one or two you really need, neither knives or guns will cause financial ruin.

[aicolainen]

If I compare prices to what they were when I joined this forum, a lot of models have doubled in price in less than 20 years. When I joined Para 2's, Manix 2's and Yojimbo 2's were all under $100, Enduras were about $50-55, Military and Police and C95 Manix folders about $125.

With the current prices I'm much more selective. I used to buy every sprint from models I liked, but now I'm being more selective. Skipped the cruwear and spy27 manix xl's for example, and don't see myself buying any Military 2 sprints now that I have a salt version - it can't be topped IMO.

If I look at other hobbies of mine, prices have gone up, but they have not doubled.
…

I wasn’t into knives 20 years ago, but what I do know (and should be true for most of us that were young adults 20 years ago) is that my financial situation and purchasing ability has significantly improved over that time, and I should be better positioned to buy knives today than I ever was, but I still find new acquisition harder and harder to justify.
Part of that could be that I already have such a broad selection already, but it’s also very much down to opportunity cost and what else that money can buy me instead.

[Jesla]

Hmmm…. My ‘98 Outback has… safety glass, seatbelts, headrest, front airbags, all wheel drive, 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes, factory fog lights, government mandated bumper and side intrusion protection, front and rear wipers and defrosters, steel belted radial tires and weather radio standard. I’m sure I have failed to name them all however I don’t want more explosives, such as side impact airbags or self tensioning seat belts in my car.

So what modern safety “features” am I missing?

Curtain airbags which for some reason you don’t want. A couple decades of structural safety improvements. Seat backs that flex forward when you crash to prevent whiplash. Some cars have active restraints which it sounds like you’re opposed to.

And a lot of nannies annoy me but probably prevent some accidents.

The crash tests were updated over the years to add things like frontal offset tests, which influences manufacturers to design to prevent failures in those tests. Most pre-2010 cars are completely vulnerable to that type of crash.

Airbags have been known to cause accidents due to malfunction. So by your own reasoning we should remove airbags to prevent one in a hundred thousand accidents. I been driving for over 50yrs and never had an accident like the one you describe. You don’t mention injuries caused by airbags, the industry never does, I don’t want explosives Inches from my ear such as side curtain airbags. The biggest safety “feature” of any car is the driver. Most drivers suck however I have seen no improvement in driver training or testing in those 50yrs, only added weight, cost and complexity to cover for a total lack of driver training or periodic testing. After age 40 driver test should be required for renewal. Also you shouldn’t even be able to get a license until at least 21 and only then after 3yrs of training. The driver is the cause of nearly all accidents so safety should start there and not in my car with explosives.

[Flash]

I can’t see anything wrong with talking about knives and their price points, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
After all is said and done though, nobody in the knife retail world is forcing you to buy anything against your free will. If you don’t agree with the cost, simply don’t buy it.

…and that is exactly what I intend to do the new Carbon Chaparral and its hugely inflated price.
I quite like Fat Carbon, I love the Chaparral, but there’s no way on earth I’m not falling for that one Spyderco. You naughty bunch of chancers!

[Red Leader]

I can’t see anything wrong with talking about knives and their price points, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
After all is said and done though, nobody in the knife retail world is forcing you to buy anything against your free will. If you don’t agree with the cost, simply don’t buy it.

…and that is exactly what I intend to do the new Carbon Chaparral and its hugely inflated price.
I quite like Fat Carbon, I love the Chaparral, but there’s no way on earth I’m not falling for that one Spyderco. You naughty bunch of chancers!

I agree, after seeing the price of the Chaparral, as well as the Balance and Starmate. The latter two seems to hit up the 'collector' side of the market, so perhaps they will be made in numbers that make sense for a smaller number of collectors to grab. But I think the issue with the Chaparral is that the ultra fancy Rafir Noble version (which we were able to pick up) has a retail of $185 I believe, and the $318 pricepoint of the new one is just so far away from any other pricepoints on this model. That is more than a $130 upgrade for the scales alone from the Rafir Noble version, and that version is no slouch. And as silly as it may seem, that is a small knife, so people may not see the value there for such a small knife. For just $100 more, and you start to get close to Chris Reeve territory.

Personally speaking, my knife ceiling is right around $250 or so, for a model I might really, really want, but even that is pushing it. Beyond that, and the law of diminishing returns is just too great to justify. Yet, there are folks that will drop $2500 on a custom, so there are all kinds.

[jasonstone20]

Ever since MAP was enacted, I really can't afford most of the knives. I just get the Value Line (Resillience, Tenacious), a LW model (Para 3 LW) or a Byrd brand knife (Cara Cara 2 G10)

The byrd line knives have awesome handle designs, if they had the Seki FRN and blade thickness I’d buy more. The Cara Cara 2 handle is a superior design to the Endura 4 in my book.

Try the Bryd line with G10 handles, a little more expensive, but it might be worth it if you don't like the FRN on the Byrd handle as much as the Seki FRN handles. For me, the FRN from the Byrd line is just fine, I find the Byrd FRN to be awesome actually. Now the other FRN on my Spyderco's is nicer, but that doesn't take away from the Byrd FRN being great.

[8th_Note]

Car prices are insane, especially for what you get for your money. I drive a '98 Grand Marquis and it's not because I can't afford a car payment lol. 7 years in towing opened my eyes to a LOT in the car world, even more than I knew from working on them.

That's a fine automobile. I had an 04 Crown Vic Sport for years. I still miss it.

[8th_Note]

Choose a knife you want and like at your price point but no need to carry on about a knife that is too expensive for your liking.

A basic Para 2 is $200. That’s about half the cost of a handgun. And things only go up from there. Telling people to not express their concerns about price just isn’t a practical thing to say IMO.

Yes, but you can buy a Tenacious with a better, thinner grind and more cutting edge for $56 if $200 for a Para 2 is too much for you. I don't know how many people you have shot lately but you may find more utility in a pocket knife than a handgun and it would therefore be better value.

Dan

Circling back to the gun comparison, and this could be a Norwegian/European phenomenon, but the secondary market for guns is a real buyers market. You can get fantastic deals on used guns, whereas the secondary knife market is dominated by sellers trying to make a profit on rare or discontinued knives. So in practice the equation is even more in favor of guns.
Then again, if you’re not an enthusiast and only buy the one or two you really need, neither knives or guns will cause financial ruin.

There are still many deals to be had on the secondary knife market. But you have to look for them and be ready to pounce when they pop up. Here's a few examples that I've gotten recently

Police 3 - $130
PM2 S90V teal exclusive - $90
Lil Native compression lock - $55

[sal]

Interesting thread. Thanx.

Running a business in today's business climate does have it's challenges, for many of the reasons mentioned. Survival of the business is critical. Keeping the quality up is important. Keeping your good staff is important. Listening to the customer is important. Those of you that are in business understand this. Knives are a unique product which complicates the business aspect even more. Most important is appreciation; the customer, the staff, the vendors, etc.

sal

[Flash]

I can’t see anything wrong with talking about knives and their price points, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
After all is said and done though, nobody in the knife retail world is forcing you to buy anything against your free will. If you don’t agree with the cost, simply don’t buy it.

…and that is exactly what I intend to do the new Carbon Chaparral and its hugely inflated price.
I quite like Fat Carbon, I love the Chaparral, but there’s no way on earth I’m not falling for that one Spyderco. You naughty bunch of chancers!

I agree, after seeing the price of the Chaparral, as well as the Balance and Starmate. The latter two seems to hit up the 'collector' side of the market, so perhaps they will be made in numbers that make sense for a smaller number of collectors to grab. But I think the issue with the Chaparral is that the ultra fancy Rafir Noble version (which we were able to pick up) has a retail of $185 I believe, and the $318 pricepoint of the new one is just so far away from any other pricepoints on this model. That is more than a $130 upgrade for the scales alone from the Rafir Noble version, and that version is no slouch. And as silly as it may seem, that is a small knife, so people may not see the value there for such a small knife. For just $100 more, and you start to get close to Chris Reeve territory.

Personally speaking, my knife ceiling is right around $250 or so, for a model I might really, really want, but even that is pushing it. Beyond that, and the law of diminishing returns is just too great to justify. Yet, there are folks that will drop $2500 on a custom, so there are all kinds.

Even if the Fat Carbon Chaparral was upgraded to Spy27 or Magnacut, at $318 it would still be a firm nope from me!

FairPlay to Spyderco for trying to sell me CTS-XHP Chap in fancy clothes for top money - they are a business after all. But the last time I checked I didn’t have “sucker” tattooed across my head so I’ll leave it in the shop for the next person.

I think $250 is an excellent price limit for any production knife. I’ve spent more than that once and the knife in question didn’t do anything exceptional aside from make me want to use it less.

…Look at that, this thread has us all unironically talking about prices.

[RugerNurse]

Interesting thread. Thanx.

Running a business in today's business climate does have it's challenges, for many of the reasons mentioned. Survival of the business is critical. Keeping the quality up is important. Keeping your good staff is important. Listening to the customer is important. Those of you that are in business understand this. Knives are a unique product which complicates the business aspect even more. Most important is appreciation; the customer, the staff, the vendors, etc.

sal

Must be challenging to offer so many different options as well. There are many models that have different steel, serrated or plain, coated and not.

[Evil D]

Car prices are insane, especially for what you get for your money. I drive a '98 Grand Marquis and it's not because I can't afford a car payment lol. 7 years in towing opened my eyes to a LOT in the car world, even more than I knew from working on them.

That's a fine automobile. I had an 04 Crown Vic Sport for years. I still miss it.

If you ever want another one I'd act sooner than later, prices are creeping up already. They're one of the last two body on frame cars ever made and they'll probably never make cars like this again. Eventually I'm going to break down and get a Marauder.

[TkoK83Spy]

That's clean David, impressive!

[8th_Note]

Car prices are insane, especially for what you get for your money. I drive a '98 Grand Marquis and it's not because I can't afford a car payment lol. 7 years in towing opened my eyes to a LOT in the car world, even more than I knew from working on them.

That's a fine automobile. I had an 04 Crown Vic Sport for years. I still miss it.

If you ever want another one I'd act sooner than later, prices are creeping up already. They're one of the last two body on frame cars ever made and they'll probably never make cars like this again. Eventually I'm going to break down and get a Marauder.

I'd like to get a Town Car, if I ever get another Panther-body. I love big cushy American barges