Price point….

[standy99]

I just bought a new 4x4 after driving one similar for 18 years.
So I am kitting the new 4x4 same as I did 18 years ago.
New bull bar, tow bar, underbody protection and storage etc

I still have all the receipts for the last kit out.
Nothing is at a believable price now to 18 years ago.

But like the knife world. I can go Spyderco gear on the new 4x4 or I could go (add cheap made in china knife company here) Both would do the job but one would last longer and make me enjoy it more.

Point I am trying to make is, plenty of options out there at every price point. So these threads don’t always have to become about price rises and price points.
Choose a knife you want and like at your price point but no need to carry on about a knife that is too expensive for your liking.

Maybe we can all start to have a nudge about pricing in this thread and leave it out of every new release thread.

Thanks for listening

[R100]

I just bought a new 4x4 after driving one similar for 18 years.
So I am kitting the new 4x4 same as I did 18 years ago.
New bull bar, tow bar, underbody protection and storage etc

I still have all the receipts for the last kit out.
Nothing is at a believable price now to 18 years ago.

But like the knife world. I can go Spyderco gear on the new 4x4 or I could go (add cheap made in china knife company here) Both would do the job but one would last longer and make me enjoy it more.

Point I am trying to make is, plenty of options out there at every price point. So these threads don’t always have to become about price rises and price points.
Choose a knife you want and like at your price point but no need to carry on about a knife that is too expensive for your liking.

Maybe we can all start to have a nudge about pricing in this thread and leave it out of every new release thread.

Thanks for listening

I got a nasty shock when I went to get a motorcycle exhaust system made by a local manufacturer who had last made one for me 25 years ago. The proprietor, who is an old friend, said "you're the kind of bloke who thinks a pie should still be 30 cents". There's a few of us here and I agree that it can get a bit tedious.

Spyderco themselves give us a huge range of price points and choices. I'd rather talk about the knife itself then make my own judgement about the value because that's a personal decision. Some people are going to be outraged when a $10 digital watch goes up to $12 and others will be chuffed to find a $10,000 dollar Rolex.

Dan

[zhyla]

Choose a knife you want and like at your price point but no need to carry on about a knife that is too expensive for your liking.

A basic Para 2 is $200. That’s about half the cost of a handgun. And things only go up from there. Telling people to not express their concerns about price just isn’t a practical thing to say IMO.

[R100]

Choose a knife you want and like at your price point but no need to carry on about a knife that is too expensive for your liking.

A basic Para 2 is $200. That’s about half the cost of a handgun. And things only go up from there. Telling people to not express their concerns about price just isn’t a practical thing to say IMO.

Yes, but you can buy a Tenacious with a better, thinner grind and more cutting edge for $56 if $200 for a Para 2 is too much for you. I don't know how many people you have shot lately but you may find more utility in a pocket knife than a handgun and it would therefore be better value.

Dan

[Red Leader]

I'm guilty of it myself, but I suppose what could bring balance to it is some of the great deals that exist in this space as well.

I recently picked up a Para 3 LW in 15V that was $153 at the SFO, and I think online retailers actually had it for less, so you get an awesome knife steel in a pretty affordable package. The pricing on the Dyad and the Metropolitan (especially for M398) seemed especially good, and those are two to keep an eye out for.

[zhyla]

Yes, but you can buy a Tenacious with a better, thinner grind and more cutting edge for $56

Yes, and it’s a great knife. Though on the bottom end Spyderco faces a lot of competition. It’s both true that there’s a Spyderco at most price points and that Spydercos at every price point are expensive in a relative sense.

[apollo]

95% of the time Spyderco's prices from the spydies i like are nothing to complain about.

But sometimes very rarely they build a variation of a knife and slap on a price that makes me fall off my chair.

The new Chapparal is an example of this.
You can buy a lw chapp at 150€ where i live you can buy any other version then the Ti chapps for around 200/250€ but for some reason this new one go's for 430€ while the handle scales that make it different would cost me at max 120€ to get from a scale maker.

So i can build my own copy using a LW as base for about 270€ instead of 430€ so that really makes no sense to me how they decided to go so high on price as in comparison to the Ti chapps this new one is a piece of cake to make just like all other capps as it does not need any hard cnc work like the Ti ones at all.

So in the future that is what i will probably do because i am not going to trow away 160€ to have the same knife while i can buy an extra PE harpy with those funds and have 2 Spydies instead.

[ladybug93]

it's a discussion forum. people are going to discuss whatever aspects are on their minds. the economy isn't great and everything is getting more expensive. what are we supposed to do, ignore it? when a design you've waited for for years is released and you can't afford it because it's priced outside of your budget for a pocket knife, whatever you do, don't discuss it on the discussion forum. just go buy something cheaper you'll be less happy with.

i get it... no one likes constant complaining. but it's valid to bring up rising prices and how it's affecting your purchasing. spyderco needs to hear that feedback. they need to know what kinds of thresholds they're dealing with in the market and see when people start dropping off.

personally, i'm spending more on individual knives that i ever thought i would and buying less than i have in the past, but we're getting to a point where i'll have to stop altogether. it's getting way too expensive.

[Brock O Lee]

My take on it is that quality tools and gear have always been expensive. This is still true today.

Buy whatever you want today, and in 10 years time you can marvel with fond memories at the "low" price you paid. Hopefully whatever you bought was durable enough to last a decade, ideally longer. If you disagree about the price of an item, vote with your feet and walk away.

Fortunately quality remains long after price is forgotten.

Edit: spelling

[Paul Ardbeg]

I don't mind spending money on good quality products and rather have less of something, but good quality. However, there are limits to what I want to spend, and I will express my opinion on this forum. As a MFR it would be interesting to me what my end users are willing to pay for a product.

Beauty (as is value) is in the eye of the beholder.

[vivi]

95% of the time Spyderco's prices from the spydies i like are nothing to complain about.

But sometimes very rarely they build a variation of a knife and slap on a price that makes me fall off my chair.

Yep.

When I saw the new black coated stainless Police 2, I thought it'd be cool to add to the collection. I love the Police but the stainless models are a bit slick for my tastes, and there's corrosion concerns for the handle. The black coating solves those issues to a degree.

I expected $180 or so, since last I looked the Police 2 sells for about $145 uncoated.

At $280 I scratched that one off my list quick.


If I compare prices to what they were when I joined this forum, a lot of models have doubled in price in less than 20 years. When I joined Para 2's, Manix 2's and Yojimbo 2's were all under $100, Enduras were about $50-55, Military and Police and C95 Manix folders about $125.

With the current prices I'm much more selective. I used to buy every sprint from models I liked, but now I'm being more selective. Skipped the cruwear and spy27 manix xl's for example, and don't see myself buying any Military 2 sprints now that I have a salt version - it can't be topped IMO.

If I look at other hobbies of mine, prices have gone up, but they have not doubled.

I can still get a pocket hand gun for $250, and a full sized high quality pistol for $400-500, which is about what I paid 20 years ago.

I can buy new videogames for $60 on release day, which is $0-10 more than I would have paid 20 years ago at the tail end of the gamecube / ps2 era. I usually wait until they're $30 though.

Fiskars hatchets went up from $25 to $30-35. More expensive but not twice as expensive.

I can still grab a solid entry level machete for $10-25, Mora Companions for $10-15, Opinels and Swiss Army Knives for $10-25 etc. like I could decades ago. Leatherman Micras did double in price though....used to gift those a lot more often.

skateboard decks used to be $30-40 for blanks, $60 for graphic decks. Now it's about $55 for blanks and $80 for graphic decks (many of which are now made in china or mexico). I paid $80 for a non-chinese made deck for my last build. More expensive but not twice as much.

Books are cheaper than ever. Kindles and amazons have been great for physical book prices. I rarely pay more than $10 for any book I'm interested in, which is less than I was spending decades ago.

Ammo is pricier but not twice as much. Out of the rounds I shoot .380 has seen the biggest jump. 9mm is still reasonably priced.

My last bass guitar wasn't much different price-wise compared to decades ago. Higher end stuff may have seen a bigger jump, but I've never bought a stringed instrument over $1000 so I wouldn't know.

Hammocks, tents, packs and other camping gear is about 10% more expensive across the board VS 20 years ago. I've compared the prices of specific tents, tarps, packs, shoes, etc. I've bought to todays prices. $75 eureka solitaire, for example. I can buy one right now for $85. That's not double the price.

Some things have dropped in price. TV's are super cheap these days compared to what you got in the 2000's. My first HD TV was a 37" toshiba 1080p set for $380, these days that'll get you a 70"+ 4K TV.


Bottom line is knives, specifically Spydercos and Leatherman Micras, have gone up much more relative to other goods.

A skateboard deck going from $60 to $80 is a much smaller % price increase than a Spyderco Military going from $120 to $250.

Why that's the case, I don't know, but what I do know is the higher the price of a knife, the pickier I am about the details and the more selective I am about my purchases.

I might put up with a sharpening notch on a fixed blade design I otherwise like for $50-100, like I do with SRK's. If I'm paying $300 for an LT Wright or $500 for a Fiddleback Forge, I'm not accepting one, or other small details I dislike. I planned to order a Winkler knife last summer but, as petty as this sounds, I passed because they wouldn't make me one without a lanyard hole. I'll accept one on a $50 fixed blade or a Mora, but if I'm paying $350 and waiting six months, I want it made to my preferences.

Bottom line is I think it's ok to be critical of knives jumping up in price more than most other consumer goods over the past few decades.

Spyderco has never limited us discussing pricing on their forum so I think it's a little unreasonable for forum members to try to shoot those talks down when they happen. If they don't want us talking about something (politics, for example), they'll let us know.

[Rezimus]

Ammo is pricier but not twice as much. Out of the rounds I shoot .380 has seen the biggest jump. 9mm is still reasonably priced.

Honestly, its still painful to buy ammo post covid. Everything went up so much. I remember going to places like Dicks sporting goods and being able to buy literally buckets of 22lr/9mm for next to nothing. I know its gone down a bit, but certainly not remotely what it was even just 5 years ago.

[WilliamMunny]

95% of the time Spyderco's prices from the spydies i like are nothing to complain about.

But sometimes very rarely they build a variation of a knife and slap on a price that makes me fall off my chair.

Yep.

When I saw the new black coated stainless Police 2, I thought it'd be cool to add to the collection. I love the Police but the stainless models are a bit slick for my tastes, and there's corrosion concerns for the handle. The black coating solves those issues to a degree.

I expected $180 or so, since last I looked the Police 2 sells for about $145 uncoated.

At $280 I scratched that one off my list quick.


If I compare prices to what they were when I joined this forum, a lot of models have doubled in price in less than 20 years. When I joined Para 2's, Manix 2's and Yojimbo 2's were all under $100, Enduras were about $50-55, Military and Police and C95 Manix folders about $125.

With the current prices I'm much more selective. I used to buy every sprint from models I liked, but now I'm being more selective. Skipped the cruwear and spy27 manix xl's for example, and don't see myself buying any Military 2 sprints now that I have a salt version - it can't be topped IMO.

If I look at other hobbies of mine, prices have gone up, but they have not doubled.

I can still get a pocket hand gun for $250, and a full sized high quality pistol for $400-500, which is about what I paid 20 years ago.

I can buy new videogames for $60 on release day, which is $0-10 more than I would have paid 20 years ago at the tail end of the gamecube / ps2 era. I usually wait until they're $30 though.

Fiskars hatchets went up from $25 to $30-35. More expensive but not twice as expensive.

I can still grab a solid entry level machete for $10-25, Mora Companions for $10-15, Opinels and Swiss Army Knives for $10-25 etc. like I could decades ago. Leatherman Micras did double in price though....used to gift those a lot more often.

skateboard decks used to be $30-40 for blanks, $60 for graphic decks. Now it's about $55 for blanks and $80 for graphic decks (many of which are now made in china or mexico). I paid $80 for a non-chinese made deck for my last build. More expensive but not twice as much.

Books are cheaper than ever. Kindles and amazons have been great for physical book prices. I rarely pay more than $10 for any book I'm interested in, which is less than I was spending decades ago.

Ammo is pricier but not twice as much. Out of the rounds I shoot .380 has seen the biggest jump. 9mm is still reasonably priced.

My last bass guitar wasn't much different price-wise compared to decades ago. Higher end stuff may have seen a bigger jump, but I've never bought a stringed instrument over $1000 so I wouldn't know.

Hammocks, tents, packs and other camping gear is about 10% more expensive across the board VS 20 years ago. I've compared the prices of specific tents, tarps, packs, shoes, etc. I've bought to todays prices. $75 eureka solitaire, for example. I can buy one right now for $85. That's not double the price.

Some things have dropped in price. TV's are super cheap these days compared to what you got in the 2000's. My first HD TV was a 37" toshiba 1080p set for $380, these days that'll get you a 70"+ 4K TV.


Bottom line is knives, specifically Spydercos and Leatherman Micras, have gone up much more relative to other goods.

A skateboard deck going from $60 to $80 is a much smaller % price increase than a Spyderco Military going from $120 to $250.

Why that's the case, I don't know, but what I do know is the higher the price of a knife, the pickier I am about the details and the more selective I am about my purchases.

I might put up with a sharpening notch on a fixed blade design I otherwise like for $50-100, like I do with SRK's. If I'm paying $300 for an LT Wright or $500 for a Fiddleback Forge, I'm not accepting one, or other small details I dislike. I planned to order a Winkler knife last summer but, as petty as this sounds, I passed because they wouldn't make me one without a lanyard hole. I'll accept one on a $50 fixed blade or a Mora, but if I'm paying $350 and waiting six months, I want it made to my preferences.

Bottom line is I think it's ok to be critical of knives jumping up in price more than most other consumer goods over the past few decades.

Spyderco has never limited us discussing pricing on their forum so I think it's a little unreasonable for forum members to try to shoot those talks down when they happen. If they don't want us talking about something (politics, for example), they'll let us know.

Vivi,

I agree with your logic, but it can be hard to compare. To keep a profit margin during an inflationary period you either need to raise the price or lower the cost to make.

I think Spyderco took the first option, kept the quality, location of manufacturing, workers, methodology, etc. and is raising the price to keep enough profit to keep the company operating.

Not in all instances, but some of the items you are comparing them to may have lowered the cost to make the product. Maybe they outsourced parts, maybe moved factories, paying cheaper labor, using cheaper materials, etc. I don't think anyone hasn't heard the phrase "They don't make them like they used to." Yes TV's are cheaper now but back in the day you would keep it for 10-20 and they would just keep working, hard to kill. Now, while cheap, they are disposable, if it breaks in 3-4 years just get a new one, no big deal.

Not that I have time, but it would be interesting to chart Spyderco price increases vs inflation and no not that fake inflation they use today to make everyone feel better but the real inflation formula from the Carter era. The new inflation numbers they use since Carter uses product substitution to low the inflation number.

I don't think Sal and Eric are raising prices just to get every last penny out of the knife they can, but more to keep their people well paid, R&D and money to move forward. If they didn't have a larger pool of capital, then when Crucible was going under, they could not have stocked up on all those steels we love. If I ever feel like Spyderco turns into a money grab company, then I will stop buying.

I still feel myself $200 is a lot of money for a knife, each one I purchase is a hard well thought out choice. But I do feel that, with proper use, these knives will all out last me.

[zhyla]

I don't think Sal and Eric are raising prices just to get every last penny out of the knife they can, but more to keep their people well paid, R&D and money to move forward.

I don’t think anyone really suspects Spyderco of skyrocketing their prices to make more money. From the bits Sal has hinted it sounds like they more or less operate off fixed margins.

My best guess is Spyderco hasn’t been able to out compete in terms of production efficiency over the last decade. It’s a robotics game these days.

[ykspydiefan]

Personally, the price points slow me down. Not as much as my own personal finance stuff and priorities, but that is my business. Spydercos pricing is their business and not mine.

I do appreciate the forum and perspective and the openness to express things here and not hold onto the frustration at home. In my mind, anything that arises from policy eventually becomes political, but that is just me. There are not posted rules regarding price and economic discussion, so....

I get it. I would like to see more people checking Spydercos sale page and noticing how drastically reduce the S35vn models are. M390 sale $90. Also, between MAP holidays and sales at other retailers, I have been able to keep buying very selectively.

I also understand the next new hotness is expensive. In Canada many Spyderco are over $400+, so yeah, I think it is really really expensive. But, only expensive for a guy who can't pay. I like the next new hotness. But, for anyone wanting wonder steel, the Sage 1 Maxamet is on sale too $80 vs $300. Next new hotness or really really affordable hotness? All so many choices. Spydercos pricing policy mostly makes choosing really hard. So much stuff, variety, price points for everyone too.

I get than people do not like complaint posts over and over. The flip side are the "crazy good deal," pages. I think if every deal posted, was posted on a sperate page, it would overwhelm price complaints and complaint pages would drop off.

Crazy good deals, has 117pages in part 2 alone. Not to mention Europe. But, yeah I too have notice that the deals pages are 3 pages back, and this topic is upfront.

Chat on, Team.

[apollo]

Ammo is pricier but not twice as much. Out of the rounds I shoot .380 has seen the biggest jump. 9mm is still reasonably priced.

Honestly, its still painful to buy ammo post covid. Everything went up so much. I remember going to places like Dicks sporting goods and being able to buy literally buckets of 22lr/9mm for next to nothing. I know its gone down a bit, but certainly not remotely what it was even just 5 years ago.

This is a strange mistake i never replied that as i do not even own guns...
Ow i see that its a quote from vivi that somehow got under my name

[Rezimus]

Ammo is pricier but not twice as much. Out of the rounds I shoot .380 has seen the biggest jump. 9mm is still reasonably priced.

Honestly, its still painful to buy ammo post covid. Everything went up so much. I remember going to places like Dicks sporting goods and being able to buy literally buckets of 22lr/9mm for next to nothing. I know its gone down a bit, but certainly not remotely what it was even just 5 years ago.

This is a strange mistake i never replied that as i do not even own guns...
Ow i see that its a quote from vivi that somehow got under my name

Lol you know what they say ..

60% of what you read online isn't true...

[jasonstone20]

Ever since MAP was enacted, I really can't afford most of the knives. I just get the Value Line (Resillience, Tenacious), a LW model (Para 3 LW) or a Byrd brand knife (Cara Cara 2 G10)

[Evil D]

Car prices are insane, especially for what you get for your money. I drive a '98 Grand Marquis and it's not because I can't afford a car payment lol. 7 years in towing opened my eyes to a LOT in the car world, even more than I knew from working on them.

[RAHComanche]

I agree on the Chap. One can buy FatCarbon scales and slap them on for the same price. There should be some economic advantage to buying fatcarbon scales from Spyderco directly. This one made me fall out of my chair.

Companies will always raise prices as much as they can. The reasons are immaterial. Could be costs, could be profits, could be good salaries for the employees, could be to increase the brand reputation. It is usually a mix of everything.

There has to be pressure to keep prices down or steady. A bit of discussion here does not hurt.

95% of the time Spyderco's prices from the spydies i like are nothing to complain about.

But sometimes very rarely they build a variation of a knife and slap on a price that makes me fall off my chair.

The new Chapparal is an example of this.
You can buy a lw chapp at 150€ where i live you can buy any other version then the Ti chapps for around 200/250€ but for some reason this new one go's for 430€ while the handle scales that make it different would cost me at max 120€ to get from a scale maker.

So i can build my own copy using a LW as base for about 270€ instead of 430€ so that really makes no sense to me how they decided to go so high on price as in comparison to the Ti chapps this new one is a piece of cake to make just like all other capps as it does not need any hard cnc work like the Ti ones at all.

So in the future that is what i will probably do because i am not going to trow away 160€ to have the same knife while i can buy an extra PE harpy with those funds and have 2 Spydies instead.