Let's discuss blade tip strength, pros and cons and uses

[Evil D]

I thought the tip of the Chief was fragile until I compared it to a Military 2, they're nearly identical up until the shape of the spine changed and by that point you're past the point of it being thin enough to call it fragile. This seems especially true for the Military 2 which seems to be ground thinner than the Military 1. Maybe this just means the Military 2 has a fragile tip too?

knife tips are only fragile when they aren't treated as knife tips

never broke a chief tip, catcherman tip,military 1 or 2 tip, etc. been carrying them for decades.

It's just one of those things like your aversion towards carrying a compression lock and the potential of it opening in your pocket or wasteband, lots of people have never had that happen either but for you it's a real concern. For someone that's broke a blade tip, whether we agree that it's a reasonable use or abuse, it's still a concern for them. I don't personally have a need or see an advantage of a paper thin acute blade tip, I can make holes with my Microtechs just fine and without much concern for breaking off the tips (beyond maybe chipping the actual point, but IMO that's edge damage and a different situation). For me there's definitely a point (pun intended) where a thinner tip is more of a liability than an advantage.

I think for this debate the shape of the blade is more important than the thickness or distal taper, you could grind the tip of a Chief thicker for those that want it to be more durable and it would still poke holes just fine. The original Worker had a really thin tip but wasn't what I'd call fragile.

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So the question for this thread is, what exactly are you gaining from a thin/acute blade tip?


What are you poking holes in? I really feel like this is a "no wrong answer" debate but I really just rarely have a need to do so at all, and I'll freely admit that my preference for a stronger tip is more about potential damage than from any real world experience.

Back when I was towing I did fix many car bumpers by "zip tie lacing, aka race lace" and for that I had to drill several holes into a urethane bumper to run zip ties through, but I always used my multitool awl because it's literally designed for such a task and makes perfect holes.

I don't use my knifes as screwdrivers or pry bars, but even though I'll always argue that there's a better tool for the job than the tip of a knife, I still feel like stronger is better. Maybe if I saw some kind of benefits then I'd be more open to splinter pickers?

And there absolutely is an opposite end of this spectrum where blade tips are too blunt and may as well be round, an example would be a ZT0300 series, where you definitely won't be breaking the tip but also probably not poking holes into anything either.

[Red Leader]

This is the benefit of having more than one knife on you at a time.

I am hard on knives. But I also like nice knives, knives with fancy, hard tool steel. Quite the conundrum lol.

So in my left pocket I will more recently carry something like a 15V Para 3 LW and in my right pocket carry a Cold Steel of some sort. I like Spydercos for slicers (with thin tips) and Cold Steels for hammers and prybars.

So far, I have achieved my own version of knife peace haha.

[Brock O Lee]

Acute tips work well to open tough hard plastic blister packs. I like to pierce a flat area to start the cut, and then power through the rest away from the body using a hammer grip.

Blister packs can be tricky to cut safely. I consider this method to be reasonably safe. I have not damaged a thin tip yet using this method.

[u.w.]

This is the benefit of having more than one knife on you at a time.

I am hard on knives. But I also like nice knives, knives with fancy, hard tool steel. Quite the conundrum lol.

So in my left pocket I will more recently carry something like a 15V Para 3 LW and in my right pocket carry a Cold Steel of some sort. I like Spydercos for slicers (with thin tips) and Cold Steels for hammers and prybars.

So far, I have achieved my own version of knife peace haha.

So like a Knife Knirvana?

Acute tips work well to open tough hard plastic blister packs. I like to pierce a flat area to start the cut, and then power through the rest away from the body using a hammer grip.

Blister packs can be tricky to cut safely. I consider this method to be reasonably safe. I have not damaged a thin tip yet using this method.

For sure. I have used utility blades and box cutters for opening those blister packs. Much thinner tip and stock - Never any issues.

u.w.

[Brock O Lee]

I like to use pierce-cuts for opening packages in general, not just for blister packs. So I prefer acute (and low) tips on my EDC's.



This is one of the reasons why the Military and PM2 are both favourites.

[jwbnyc]

I don’t generally break tips off actually cutting. Mostly, I bend (not break) tips by banging them against hard surfaces adjacent to what I am cutting. While I appreciate a slicey blade, I’m not sure it’s strictly absolutely needed. Having Ninja-level performance is more towards the hobby side of things for me. It certainly can make cutting easier, but I have never not managed to get the job done with a thicker tipped knife. Spydercos, even the thicker ones, cut just fine. Now, there are jobs where I’m sure having a fine tip is a boon, and I will select knives with thinner tips and blade stock for certain jobs, but; I’m not really doing much fine cutting on a regular basis.

[Halfneck]

My Delica 4s are about as thin a tip as I like on a general use folder. I was actually in favor of the tip of the Delica 4 over the previous versions. The old "splinter tip" was very pokey compared to the 4, but less forgiving if you abused it. I think (it was a long time ago) it was a SE Delica 1 that I snapped a small bit of the tip off while working EMS. As I recall I simply reground the tip into something similar to the current Delica 4.

Most of the piercing use of my knives in recent years has been on hikes & camping trips. Probably the roughest use was whittling some camp gadgets. Crafting an alcohol soda can stove requires you to poke holes in a soda can and pierce it to cut it into separate pieces. I've also used a knife to make a hobo stove using a tin can. That will definitely test the tip, and the edge of a knife.

[aicolainen]

This is the benefit of having more than one knife on you at a time.

Yes, and it doesn't even have to be at the same time if you have a pretty good idea about what you'll be doing and prepare accordingly.

For my day to day office work I use my k390 df2 wharncliffe. The tip is quite acute, but not super fragile. It's a joy for opening packages with delicate content as it penetrates in a very predictable and controllable way.
On the other end of the spectrum I'm a bit concerned when I yank it under super tight, thick zip ties, but the blade shape is so good for this and it hasn't snapped yet. But maybe the most important aspect of office work that allows me to confidently carry a knife with a delicate tip is the fact that I have easy access to alternative means if I find myself in a situation where I'm pushing the limits of acceptable use for my DF2.

If I'm doing field work, either as part of my job or as a volunteer dog handler in my mountain rescue SAR team, I'm very limited in what I can carry and the tasks I'm up against are less predictable. Non knife tasks are very much on the table and any problem or issue that pops up has to be solved with what I've got. For this type of use I've come to like the modified sheepsfoot blades of the Salt and Pac salt - the robust tip combined with a tough steel makes me very confident that these will stand up to at least some amount of non knife tasks. For mountain rescue it's also a nice bonus that these knives are silly light and somewhat safer if I have to make cuts close to a patient.

There's a time and place for both. A more robust tip is probably more useful overall (as long as it's not too blunt), if you're someone looking for a one knife solution (probably no one here familiar with that concept), but acute tips are nice to have for some niche use (e.g. opening a crinkly bag of chocolate without making noise and alerting the candy monsters aka my kids) and also very satisfying for just nerding out.

[cjk]

The vast majority of tip damage I have experienced (ie, caused) has been when I drop the knife on a concrete or a tile floor.
It's usually me being clumsy.

[Midnightrider]

Acute tips work well to open tough hard plastic blister packs. I like to pierce a flat area to start the cut, and then power through the rest away from the body using a hammer grip.

Blister packs can be tricky to cut safely. I consider this method to be reasonably safe. I have not damaged a thin tip yet using this method.

I'm finding a Buck 110 is **** on boxes and packages. The blade is surprisingly good in all respects. I had one decades ago but can't get to it now so I bought another one a few years ago and just started using recently.

You can't say h/e/l/l on this forum?

[Evil D]

The vast majority of tip damage I have experienced (ie, caused) has been when I drop the knife on a concrete or a tile floor.
It's usually me being clumsy.

Same here, which can also happen to a stronger tipped blade, which is why I'm not necessarily against thinner tips and they certainly don't stop me from buying knives, I just also don't seek them out either. I think in most situations for me I'd be better off with a thin height blade tip that retains some decent blade grind thickness. I can see situations where a lower profile blade shape is more usable but I don't remember ever needing one to alsl be extremely thin, or no thinner than a thin blade grind.

[cjk]

Acute tips work well to open tough hard plastic blister packs. I like to pierce a flat area to start the cut, and then power through the rest away from the body using a hammer grip.

Blister packs can be tricky to cut safely. I consider this method to be reasonably safe. I have not damaged a thin tip yet using this method.

FWIW, serrated knives with belly work great for opening blister packs. I wouldn't say that a super special technique is required to do it either. Many tips are better than one?

[cjk]

The vast majority of tip damage I have experienced (ie, caused) has been when I drop the knife on a concrete or a tile floor.
It's usually me being clumsy.

Same here, which can also happen to a stronger tipped blade, which is why I'm not necessarily against thinner tips and they certainly don't stop me from buying knives, I just also don't seek them out either. I think in most situations for me I'd be better off with a thin height blade tip that retains some decent blade grind thickness. I can see situations where a lower profile blade shape is more usable but I don't remember ever needing one to alsl be extremely thin, or no thinner than a thin blade grind.

I do seem to have the impression that when I drop a magnacut blade on the tile floor that the tip takes a bit less damage than a 20CV blade, but realistically I haven't been controlling for consistency of clumsiness.

[aicolainen]

The vast majority of tip damage I have experienced (ie, caused) has been when I drop the knife on a concrete or a tile floor.
It's usually me being clumsy.

Same here, which can also happen to a stronger tipped blade, which is why I'm not necessarily against thinner tips and they certainly don't stop me from buying knives, I just also don't seek them out either. I think in most situations for me I'd be better off with a thin height blade tip that retains some decent blade grind thickness. I can see situations where a lower profile blade shape is more usable but I don't remember ever needing one to alsl be extremely thin, or no thinner than a thin blade grind.

I do seem to have the impression that when I drop a magnacut blade on the tile floor that the tip takes a bit less damage than a 20CV blade, but realistically I haven't been controlling for consistency of clumsiness.

Just the fact that you have any statistics at all on this, seem to indicate some degree of consistent clumsiness

[Netherend]

In my personal use I find that thinner tips are more versatile than thick tips.
Whether it be poking a hole in something, opening packages, lifting a tab on a can, whittling, removing a splinter or cutting open something tight like zip-ties a thin tip is shines over a thick tip.
I have been fortunate enough to have not broken a tip yet .

Thick tips should be more durable and you get more steel but I have am not entirely sure what their benefits are beyond their perceived or potential durability advantage.

It’s also hard to define a thick tip. The Shaman has a thicker tip than most of my spyderco knives but it also has a thicker blade in general.

Are there any thick tip knives from spyderco that have thinner blade ?
Or do we define thicker tips by how much thinner the tip is vs the spine?

Does the taper of the blade have more of an effect than the tip size?

[Evil D]

Are there any thick tip knives from spyderco that have thinner blade ?
Or do we define thicker tips by how much thinner the tip is vs the spine?

Does the taper of the blade have more of an effect than the tip size?

I think like a lot of things it just depends, because the variables go in every direction and any of these criteria can be made thicker or thinner.

The first example I thought of was my Ayoob, which IMO is a pretty small point and easy to operate, but is also pretty stout and unlikely to break even when doing stupid knife tasks.

I think the Bodacious is a great middle ground, the tip is thinner than a Shaman but still strong.

The blade profile, or rather spine shape also plays a huge part in all this, just going from a straight spine to a leaf shape will give you a stronger point, and if you do a straight blade with upswept edge that comes all the way up to the spine then your blade tip is the same thickness as your blade stock, assuming there's no distal taper. Spyderco doesn't seem to do this option much, all I can think of would be a Lum Tanto or maybe a Starmate comes close. I used to really dislike this sort of blade shape because the tip ends up so high but after carrying a lot of Microtechs over the last 2 years I've grown to like them.

[James Y]

The Native Chief's extremely fine tip is the sole reason I don't carry mine more often.

I like how the tips were modified on the 4th generation of the Endura and Delica with slightly more structural support, without really giving up any piercing ability.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Jim and all: I agree with you about the Endura 4 tip change and saber grind. But I prefer the older Endura and Pacific Salt handle grips, including the old Volcano Grip design, than this bi directional updated handle grip and shape.

One of my greatest fears is breaking or bending the tip, point of a knife.

My ideal Spyderco Endura would be a tanto and a Model 4 blade (two different knives) but with the original Endura handle and Volcano grip.

If Spyderco ever does a custom shop I would buy those.

When I purchase a knife one of the first things I look at is the side profile of the knife and the thickness of the tip.

[yablanowitz]

Conversely, the first thing I do on Gen4 knives is regrind the tips to a point, and the S90V/CF Chief has been my RFP knife for the last three or four years. Different strokes for different folks.

Work in progress. Try this with a thick tipped blade and let me know how it works out for you.

[RustyIron]

I'm VERY happy with the tips on my favorite Spyderco models: Stretch 2 XL, Manix 2, Endura, Delica, etc.

When using any knife, I try to reserve the tip for delicate work. If I'm doing tough stuff, I stay back if possible, saving the tip for when it really matters. Of course the tip of any knife will wear more quickly when used extensively or dropped, but I'll accept that for the cutting performance a thin tip provides.

Lately I've been carrying one of the new Microtech Ultratechs. It's a nice knife. There's no denying that the lightning-fast clickety-clack of the OTF mechanism is uber cool. But the blade is blunter than to what I'm accustomed. It's not as good. And the steel isn't as good. Some will tell you that it's not better or worse, just different. Nah, it's worse. But that's a topic for another time. The blunter blade might be better for some people and some applications, but I like thin and pointy.