Last Minute Decision

[aicolainen]

My hiking activities cover almost the full spectrum from UL to winter “expeditions”, but after I got kids a lot of my hiking/backpacking falls into something similar to what you’re describing here:
2-3 days, moderate miles with ample time to fish and enjoy camp life with a fire and prepping good food.

Even for someone like me, that has developed some kind of a UL mindset, on these type of hikes, it makes sense to bring a couple of different tools:
- Folding knife: I like to have a folding knife as it’s so accessible and convenient to use. Typical use is precision tasks like foodprep, processing fish, cutting / trimming fishing line, opening packaging, gear maintenance/adjusting etc. Typical knives carried are Native 5 salt, Thin red Endura
or similar.
- Fixed blade knife: Mostly for prepping fire wood (batoning, feather sticks etc.), but could also be used for camp site tasks like making guy line attachments. And the kids use it for carving. If I carry a shorter folding knife like the N5, the fixed blade sometimes have to work as a complementary kitchen knife when cutting up larger food items. On multi day hikes I tend to go with the Mora Companion Spark, but if I expect to process a lot of wood I opt for something with a little more heft, like the Fällkniven F1.
- Multitool: I like to have a pair of pliers when I go fishing and multitool pliers are easy to pack. My most used multitool in this scenario was the LM Style PS. Unfortunately it broke and I got a Micra as a warranty replacement. Better scissors for sure, but that doesn’t make up for the lack of pliers. The Style PS had the perfect toolset, but was on the brink of being too small. I would not hesitate to move up to something like a Juice S2, but those are also gone. I’m not comfortable going bigger than that, so I’m in a fishing MT limbo atm.
- Folding saw: when camp fires are on the menu I carry a Bahco Lapplander as well.

How does this translate to your selection?
- Folding knife: Catcherman. I’ve been tempted to use mine in this role as well, but I haven’t quite dared to commit to it yet. You’re already used to carry long handled folders, so that’s a non issue for you.
- Fixed blade: SRK SK5. Just because it’s most similar to what I’m used to.
- Multi tool: The smallest one you have with pliers. If it has a decent set of scissors that’s a nice bonus, but not a requirement IMO.
- Saw: You’re set. Nothing to add.

[Bolster]

...38oz and the space to live inside with a companion in torrential rain conditions for extended days while cooking, etc is worth the weight. Even solo I prefer this, but my hammock setup has become lighter and lighter as I refine it. This is when car camping, not backpacking but it was the basis for what I started to simplify and remove from...

That...is...soooo...cool, love that setup! Looks elegant. Yeah, car camping is a different animal, isn't it? I've just started experimenting with it myself. My setup is not nearly as advanced, well-thought-out, or as comfortable as yours, but...the photo is inspirational! Gives me something to strive for. Do you have issues with insects, with your car camp setup?

Realizing we're OT from Vivi's original question, can I recommend backpackinglight.com for any readers who are interested in 'lightening up'? Oops, I just did.

@aicolainen - Interesting post. My rationale for carrying scissors is for blister care, moleskin, and bandages, at which a knife seems ill-suited. The problem for a knife is adhesive-backed anything, and a lot of field fixes rely on adhesive-backed something.

[RustyIron]

Oh, sorry to hear that. My interest is starting up again. Never say never.

Weep not for me, brother. I'm fortunate that my time in the wilderness is typically measured in "days per week." Nowadays I have ways other than backpacking to maximize my outdoor enjoyment. Here's a picture from late Monday night. I was fortunate enough to be staying in a historically significant location high on a rugged mountaintop, where very few are allowed to venture. That being the case, I was all alone. The allure of the night was too strong to resist, so went for a hike in the darkness to find where the cliffs became too precarious to continue. This picture is right about that spot. Sorry, I can't say where it is. Did you see the video of the backpacker being rescued from a cliffside off the PCT in your area? That's some serious stuff. Oh, and if it matters, there was a Sprint 2 XL PD#1 in my pocket all week.

[aicolainen]

@Bolster

My rationale for carrying scissors is for blister care, moleskin, and bandages, at which a knife seems ill-suited. The problem for a knife is adhesive-backed anything, and a lot of field fixes rely on adhesive-backed something.

Hmm.. this isn’t so much my experience. I find that scissors often get clogged up when cutting adhesives, while a knife will most often allow me to make a clean cut from the non sticky side. But most of the time, cutting isn’t even required for me in this type of use case.
For blister prevention I use that very sticky canvas looking tape that we call “sport tape” around here, but I have no idea what’s called in english :) Anyways, it rips easily across, so it doesn’t require cutting. For blister care I use Compede brand blister patches that come precut in suitable shapes.
For repair I mostly rely on duct tape, which also rips easily across and don’t require cutting.

For me, the usefulness of scissors very much depends on the quality, and for most multi tools they’re not really that great. Depending on the size and type of MT they can also be awkward to use.
I sometimes used the scissors on my Style PS because I carried it anyway, but it would struggle with thin flexible materials such as multi filament fishing lines. So very often I carried a Victorinox compact in tandem with the Style PS. Amongst others, it added a decent pair of scissors and the ability to actually use pliers and a screw driver at the same time.

I also think you pointed out something important in your previous post; a few dedicated tools can be, and often are both lighter and more suitable than a multi tool. Like we have seen in this thread, many like to bring a MT as a just in case item for peace of mind, but it’s a (and I can say this because I have been guilty of it myself in the past) lazy approach, and might not even work all that well when you need it.
It’s better to take the time to familiarize with your equipment and learn what tools are suitable for their repair and maintenance. Some equipment, like stoves, often comes with dedicated tools that are already compact and easy to carry. If there are other screws and/or nuts you might need to adjust, it is still often better to bring the exact bits needed and a separate pair of knipex cobra XS pliers so the pliers are separate from the driver.
Some advantages of the MT is the compact and convenient carry achieved with the folding handles, the organizational advantage of having all (or much) of your tools clumped together in one unit makes it easy to find and reduces the risk of loosing individual tools. I also think the combination pliers you find on quality MTs are far more versatile than most of the dedicated pliers you can find, which are usually very task specific.
No hard rules, it all depends on the gear and circumstance for each trip.

[Bolster]

Weep not for me, brother. I'm fortunate that my time in the wilderness is typically measured in "days per week." Nowadays I have ways other than backpacking to maximize my outdoor enjoyment. Here's a picture from late Monday night. I was fortunate enough to be staying in a historically significant location high on a rugged mountaintop, where very few are allowed to venture. That being the case, I was all alone. The allure of the night was too strong to resist, so went for a hike in the darkness to find where the cliffs became too precarious to continue. This picture is right about that spot. Sorry, I can't say where it is. Did you see the video of the backpacker being rescued from a cliffside off the PCT in your area? That's some serious stuff. Oh, and if it matters, there was a Sprint 2 XL PD#1 in my pocket all week.

I am drying my tears. I do recall that you also spend time on another mountaintop with some big glass and assorted machinery.

Yes! Saw the video of the PCT cliffside rescue. I had walked past that very spot about 24 hours earlier!! That's about where the fat red diamondback rattlesnake gave me a buzz. Maybe he's what sent the hiker over the cliff?

...I find that scissors often get clogged up when cutting adhesives, while a knife will most often allow me to make a clean cut from the non sticky side....

The clogging is an issue. I will attempt this "Aicolainen Inverted Scissorless Maneuver" (AISM) and, if it works for me, will start leaving my scissors at home. I assume you are cutting against some wooden surface, as a cutting board?

[RustyIron]

Yes! Saw the video of the PCT cliffside rescue. I had walked past that very spot about 24 hours earlier!!

Oh... so YOU'RE the one who dislodged the rock that sent her careening over the edge. Don't worry, I won't say anything.

As for the Moleskin, I just cut out with my super-sharp pocket knife. I like the big sized pieces, not those little dinky ones that are cut to size. If I have a blister as small as those mini-patches, then it's not a blister that warrants my attention.

[vivi]

ended up taking a pe pacific salt, pe aqua salt, folding saw, leatherman rebar and a small cold steel machete.

i'll make a new thread with pictures, videos and stories from the trip sometime soon.

[vivi]

Ironic vivi, some of the exact knives you listed are on my decision list for an upcoming 50 miler I have planned father's day week.

Leatherman Skeletool (with Delrin hammer insert)
Catcherman (PS hollow ground)
or
Military (PS)
Dayhiker

From your list I would say:
Leatherman
Pac Salt (assuming SE)
Street Beat

What is your target pack weight including food?@vivi

no target weight! it was my first time trying out a 65L pack, and the idea was to cram it full and see how fatigued I got hiking up and down wilderness mountain trails. kelty coyote 65



it was fun and the complete opposite of how I usually pack. I've used 1.8lb sleep systems in thunderstorms with success.

btw ended up going with the aqua salt, leatherman and machete. sure brought back memories. it was my main camp knife from around 2010-2020.

to my surprise the leatherman didnt get used. the others did though. the machete was needed to access certain trails that hadnt been used since the helene damage, and to clear a camp site out the first night.

[vivi]

[Edit] Reread your post and determined your pack trip is so different than my pack trips, I actually have no advice! I've never had to hack a trail through the wilderness. My pack trips are typically multi-day, 8-12 hrs/day, 20-lb pack all in. I carry a Spyderco Mule, but use it seldom. Have fun! And give a report on your knife usage when you return, if you have a chance.

I used my aqua salt for some basic food prep, carving roasting sticks, cutting rope, sparking fires and a few other odd tasks. It worked great, just like it always does. Lightweight tank of a knife, very rugged for the ounces.

This one was a little slower paced. Large pack, zero regard given to weight (brought a candle lantern and three different flashlights, for example). Wanted to see how the other extreme felt I guess. Got pretty fatigued day 1 but by the end I got used to it. Wasn't as bad as I expected.

My choice

Those are great woods knives. I reprofiled mine on my belt sander and it carves pretty well now. Enough reach and heft for some light chopping, and the blade angle is excellent for batoning.

I generally prefer an SRK or something similar to the Aqua Salt these days. I feel like the extra length and weight makes them more versatile in terms of batoning, chopping, prying etc. when I go on overnighters I typically pack one.

If it were me, I’d take the Machete, Street Bowie and a mini multi tool.

This was kinda where I was leaning. I always like a fixed blade over a folder if is convenient to carry where I'm going, which is most anywhere now that I live in a town that doesn't mind seeing a knife on my hip when I go into stores.

It's nice living somewhere like that. I only saw one other person on the trails while I was out...a mid 30's girl toting a small day pack and a shotgun.

Leaning towards the Aqua Salt and Leatherman. 50/50 on bringing the light machete. What would you pick?

That's what I'd bring, maybe plus the M2 Salt. Clearing stuff with a machete is generally much slower than going around or scrambling over so if it was me I'd leave that behind unless you are clearing a more permanent path for others. Hope you have a great time.

Dan

The machete was useful. There's a lot of trails that haven't been repaired, and absolutely nobody is going to mind someone helping out with that. There were also camp sites I found in need of a little love.

[vivi]

Aqua Salt
Leatherman
Machete - since you mentioned possibly needing something to bust through brush

that's what I ended up going with. It was a great combo!

Personally I would leave the machete at home because if I'm out there hiking, it's not my responsibility (or within my legal right) to cut new trails. Especially not on public land where environmental science and engineering is greatly considered when designing new trails. Also, getting around or past storm damage can be done practicing Leave No Trace principles, so for myself the machete would be unnecessary.

From that selection, I'd probably bring the Temperance sprint for fire prep and general utility. I would also bring the Catcherman sprint if I planned on cleaning some fish while I was out there. Good luck!

There's still thousands of fallen trees that need chain sawed through where I was. Nobody is going to mind someone hacking at 6 month old undergrowth. It's barely noticeable compared to the big stuff out there. 100'+ trees, sometimes multiples, still fallen across many trails.

Brought the zebco but never found any fish in any of the streams I camped by. I was bummed. Was excited to test it out, and had everything I needed to cook anything I caught.

If I'm going in the woods for any extended amount of time and I'm only going to carry one knife, it's going to be a fixed blade.

I also wouldn't ever plan to go into the woods for an extended amount of time with only one knife. Two is one, one is none.

Of your list I'd probably go with the Aqua Salt and Military 2 Salt, because the Aqua is probably better for cleaning fish and should be able to serve for most harder fixed blade tasks, and the M2 would be for food prep and odd jobs that don't include cleaning fish.

I'd also have a multitool on my belt. Weight be damned. If I can't manage with an extra 8oz or whatever on my person then I have bigger problems.

This. IMO, some kind of substantial multi-tool would be a must.

There are some long-distance hikers/backpackers who won't carry more knife/tool than one tiny Victorinox Classic SAK. And one authority who advocated that even stated that he was considering "cutting off" the tiny nail file/screwdriver blade to shave off even more weight. As if that little implement adds any noticeable weight at all. Maybe I'm clueless, but that level of obsession makes absolutely no sense to me.

Jim

I never used my leatherman rebar, but did use my leather halfcra ironically.



Took all the useful tools out of a Micra and put them into one half. About the weight of a vic classic. I used the philips to tighten the screws on my aqua salt sheath when I realized it was loose and I had no torx drivers on me. also helped keep my nails clean & trim.

I agree ounces (sometimes even grams) equal pounds on the trail. I worked with a thru hiker for a few years and we often discussed the ridiculousness of shaving weight. He was a tall lanky fellow and had completed the AT thru hike in his year following college. That isn't my idea of a good time. Cutting toothbrushes down to just the neck and bristles, removing nylon tags from clothing, removing all metal zipper ends for 1.2mm dyneema fobs, etc. He was dressed like a marathon runner and carried a 26lb pack. When he woke one morning and the ground was dusted with snow, he hiked 7 extra miles to the nearest Dollar General to buy a hoodie and stocking cap. Ditched them 3 days later after he was sure he was clear of weather.

I prefer somewhere between that extreme and car/truck camping. Not counting water, my summer 50 miler pack weight is a hair over 42lbs. But I will sacrifice carrying weight for some comforts.

I like going to further extremes when bicycle touring, but when backpacking I like a slower pace. I managed to do 2,000+ touring miles on a full carbon trek emonda outfitted with revelate frame bags. Fully loaded with a complete sleep system - total weight under 30lbs, including the bike and the bags

I'd also have a multitool on my belt. Weight be damned. If I can't manage with an extra 8oz or whatever on my person then I have bigger problems.

Slightly OT, but gotta ask: What do y'all use a multitool for, when packing? I've never found the need over decades of backpacking, so am curious. I do carry tools, but they are separate small tools like tweezers, SAK scissors, needle & thread, etc. They are almost never used. I'm just curious what you folks are using multitools for? Do you have screws on your pack frame and need a screwdriver to tighten them? Do you take cans and need a can opener? Are you sawing wood? Pliers are for what?

Dialing in a base weight around 10 pounds is more than just a guessing game. It takes a vast amount of experience on the trails to understand our own capabilities and needs for the environments we're in. Learning what we actually need, and why, can be a very enjoyable part of the backpacking experience.

Good post. For the record, I just can't make it to 10 lbs baseweight. I have tried. I'm stuck at 12 lbs and can't seem to go any lighter. Should add that I hike trails, I don't do trail-less cross-country bushwacking except when lost. Cross-country would definitely add weight, although Skurka (https://andrewskurka.com) did cross-country Alaska with a very small base weight. (At one point he warded off a griz with a hiking pole!) His 3-season base is usually 7-14 lbs.

Regarding multitools, ive used leathermans to:

- spark ferro rods (saw blade works great)
- saw fatwood into shorter lengths
- practice trap making
- open canned food (car camping)
- help untie stubborn knots (pliers and dull awls are both useful here)
- cut paracord
- adjust & tighten sheaths with the screwdrivers
- pliers to help bend back bent tent stakes
- pliers to lift hot pots off fires
- file to sharpen tools (especially diamond file equipped models)

they also can handle most regular knife tasks just fine.

[vivi]

What does your sleep system consist of?

For > 32F temps:

EE Revelation 30F quilt - 23 oz
Thermarest Neoair Xlite pad - 12 oz
Katabatic Pinon Bivy - 8 oz
RAB Poncho/Tarp when rain (dual purpose) - 9 oz
Tyvek groundcloth - 6 oz (kinda heavy, looking for replacement)

My "tent" is the weight of a multitool...

...if I were doing more serious woods stuff I'd rather carry a larger folding saw if I can.

Yeah, if you are doing campfires, you gotta tool up sufficiently. Saw a good idea. Fires are pretty much prohibited anywhere I've been hiking recently, and the reason I've had to embrace cold-rehydration. (Quinoa and lentils both cold-rehydrate well, BTW.)

That's wild. I built up some big ol fires this trip. Part of the experience for me. I cook over wood fires and never pack stoves.

[vivi]

Wouldn't a salt knife with a serrated blade be better in case you run into tangled vegetation? Or run into rope tangles that were carried there by a flood? Also wouldn't a lightweight 357 Magnum or 38 special be a good idea in case you run into bears or mountain lions?

plain edged cuts that stuff just fine.

I always carry some sort of handgun when solo backpacking.

[vivi]

btw here's an out of date video on my UL bike touring setup. sure beats those quad pannier 80lb+ load outs I've seen a lot of tourists use.

[Bolster]

btw here's an out of date video on my UL bike touring setup.

Fun and instructive video. Enjoyed. Thanks for posting it.

[Catchadroppimgknife]

a wise biking friend once told me - forget about shaving ounces off your equipment .... just loose 5 pounds..

[vivi]

a wise biking friend once told me - forget about shaving ounces off your equipment .... just loose 5 pounds..

I notice 5lbs difference between bikes more than 10lb body weight difference personally.

[vivi]

Well, headed back out to the same area.

Tonight I'm taking a few knives to my belt sander to really optimize their edge angle for wood carving etc.

Here's the list I'm choosing from this time:

multitools:

- leatherman squirt
- leatherman micra
- leatherman half micra (very light, no scissors or tweezers, half the handle)
- vic classic
- vic tinker

folders:

- buck 110 lightweight
- opinel #8
- pacific salt 1 pinned

fixed blades:

- Mora Companion
- Spyderco Temp sprint run
- Cold Steel SRK (SK5 hollow ground stripped blade very thin edge)
- Cold Steel 3V SRK (Flat saber ground, thicker edge, gonna thin out some more today)
- Cold Steel Recon Tanto (reprofiled pretty thin so it cuts quite well)


misc:

- kukri machete
- folding saw


Based on how things went last time I think I'll be fine leaving the machete and leatherman at home.

I'm leaning towards a beefy do it all fixed blade like the SRK, the folding saw, something light and thin like the Opinel for food prep, and the half micra for cleaning my nails and having a few screwdrivers just in case.

But I'm really tempted by the temp. It cuts wood and food a lot better than the SRK with the new edge I gave it, but the SRK is more versatile in terms of busting up wood for a fire and handling light chopping. I always cook over wood fires too, no propane or alcohol coming with me.

We'll see.

[Aladinsane]

Well, headed back out to the same area.

Tonight I'm taking a few knives to my belt sander to really optimize their edge angle for wood carving etc.

Here's the list I'm choosing from this time:

multitools:

- leatherman squirt
- leatherman micra
- leatherman half micra (very light, no scissors or tweezers, half the handle)
- vic classic
- vic tinker

folders:

- buck 110 lightweight
- opinel #8
- pacific salt 1 pinned

fixed blades:

- Mora Companion
- Spyderco Temp sprint run
- Cold Steel SRK (SK5 hollow ground stripped blade very thin edge)
- Cold Steel 3V SRK (Flat saber ground, thicker edge, gonna thin out some more today)
- Cold Steel Recon Tanto (reprofiled pretty thin so it cuts quite well)


misc:

- kukri machete
- folding saw


Based on how things went last time I think I'll be fine leaving the machete and leatherman at home.

I'm leaning towards a beefy do it all fixed blade like the SRK, the folding saw, something light and thin like the Opinel for food prep, and the half micra for cleaning my nails and having a few screwdrivers just in case.

But I'm really tempted by the temp. It cuts wood and food a lot better than the SRK with the new edge I gave it, but the SRK is more versatile in terms of busting up wood for a fire and handling light chopping. I always cook over wood fires too, no propane or alcohol coming with me.

We'll see.

Have a good trip! I’ve got my backpacking trip planned for June in the Smokies. Good luck!

[Bolster]

I like the knife-and-tool themed orientation of your trip. I've never tried that, I should...sounds like fun. My backpacking usually minimizes camp time and maximizes hike time, but I should try a more camp-and-craft approach sometime.

[vivi]

I like the knife-and-tool themed orientation of your trip. I've never tried that, I should...sounds like fun. My backpacking usually minimizes camp time and maximizes hike time, but I should try a more camp-and-craft approach sometime.

I do that when I'm using a vehicle, but when I'm hoofin it I like taking my time and enjoying the camping side of things at least 50% of the time. I try not to worry about daily mileage etc., and try to avoid planned routes. I just find some spot in a wilderness area where no one else is and explore.

I'm going to the same spot I went to last time. There was a perfect streamside camp spot I used my last night I plan to re-visit. I got to it about two hours before sunset so decided against hiking the next 2 miles to the waterfalls. This time I'm checking them out.