Last Minute Decision

[James Y]

If I'm going in the woods for any extended amount of time and I'm only going to carry one knife, it's going to be a fixed blade.

I also wouldn't ever plan to go into the woods for an extended amount of time with only one knife. Two is one, one is none.

Of your list I'd probably go with the Aqua Salt and Military 2 Salt, because the Aqua is probably better for cleaning fish and should be able to serve for most harder fixed blade tasks, and the M2 would be for food prep and odd jobs that don't include cleaning fish.

I'd also have a multitool on my belt. Weight be damned. If I can't manage with an extra 8oz or whatever on my person then I have bigger problems.

This. IMO, some kind of substantial multi-tool would be a must.

There are some long-distance hikers/backpackers who won't carry more knife/tool than one tiny Victorinox Classic SAK. And one authority who advocated that even stated that he was considering "cutting off" the tiny nail file/screwdriver blade to shave off even more weight. As if that little implement adds any noticeable weight at all. Maybe I'm clueless, but that level of obsession makes absolutely no sense to me.

Jim

[Evil D]

If I'm going in the woods for any extended amount of time and I'm only going to carry one knife, it's going to be a fixed blade.

I also wouldn't ever plan to go into the woods for an extended amount of time with only one knife. Two is one, one is none.

Of your list I'd probably go with the Aqua Salt and Military 2 Salt, because the Aqua is probably better for cleaning fish and should be able to serve for most harder fixed blade tasks, and the M2 would be for food prep and odd jobs that don't include cleaning fish.

I'd also have a multitool on my belt. Weight be damned. If I can't manage with an extra 8oz or whatever on my person then I have bigger problems.

This. IMO, some kind of substantial multi-tool would be a must.

There are some long-distance hikers/backpackers who won't carry more knife/tool than one tiny Victorinox Classic SAK. And one authority who advocated that even stated that he was considering "cutting off" the tiny nail file/screwdriver blade to shave off even more weight. As if that little implement adds any noticeable weight at all. Maybe I'm clueless, but that level of obsession makes absolutely no sense to me.

Jim

I'll cut weight somewhere else first before I sacrifice a tool that might be useful. Ounces do add up to pounds but I'll find other ways to save weight, even lighter clothes and your actual backpack itself can be made of lighter materials.

If you really want to dig into this, and this might be funny to some people, but start watching the Alone TV series and see what items they bring along. They may only be one phone call away from being rescued but up until that point they are doing legitimate survival and the gear they decide to bring makes a difference.

[Mushroom]

"Ultralight backpacking" is a fairly straightforward yet often misunderstood practice.

Ultralight backpacking ≠ Wilderness survival

It comes down to that fact that it's easier to carry 10 pounds on your back than it is to carry 25 pounds on your back. When hiking is easier, we cover more miles more efficiently. When the plan is to thru-hike 2000 to 3000 miles - the less weight on your back, the easier it is.

Getting a pack weight down to around 10 lbs and still being comfortable is not an easy task. The guy taking the screwdriver out of his SAK has probably already cut his toothbrush in half and sanded the paint off of his trekking pole.

Dialing in a base weight around 10 pounds is more than just a guessing game. It takes a vast amount of experience on the trails to understand our own capabilities and needs for the environments we're in. Learning what we actually need, and why, can be a very enjoyable part of the backpacking experience.

We all go out to enjoy the outdoors for different reasons though and there is no single correct way to do that. As they say - Hike your own hike.

[xceptnl]

I agree ounces (sometimes even grams) equal pounds on the trail. I worked with a thru hiker for a few years and we often discussed the ridiculousness of shaving weight. He was a tall lanky fellow and had completed the AT thru hike in his year following college. That isn't my idea of a good time. Cutting toothbrushes down to just the neck and bristles, removing nylon tags from clothing, removing all metal zipper ends for 1.2mm dyneema fobs, etc. He was dressed like a marathon runner and carried a 26lb pack. When he woke one morning and the ground was dusted with snow, he hiked 7 extra miles to the nearest Dollar General to buy a hoodie and stocking cap. Ditched them 3 days later after he was sure he was clear of weather.

I prefer somewhere between that extreme and car/truck camping. Not counting water, my summer 50 miler pack weight is a hair over 42lbs. But I will sacrifice carrying weight for some comforts.

[spydergoat]

There are some long-distance hikers/backpackers who won't carry more knife/tool than one tiny Victorinox Classic SAK ...
but that level of obsession makes absolutely no sense to me.

I don't really see it as an obsession, everyone's gear choices are individual, and the amount of weight it is sensible to spend on knives really depends on the type of trip. I enjoy pre-planned long backpacking trips with modern equipment, and the most I can expect to cut are packages of freeze-dried food, paracord, and first aid supplies. Even if campfires were not banned in the areas I frequent, I doubt I would bother because I hike and explore all day, cook dinner with butane, and get into a tent and sleep at sunset. The less pounds I carry, the more I can do with less impact on my body, and I'd rather allocate more weight to things that will keep me alive like clothing layers, my sleep system, fuel, extra food, backup water filter, extra medical supplies, etc. Other non-essential heavier luxury items will also take priority like camp shoes, baby wipes for my ***, headphones and a charging pack for my phone. A bunch of non-essential items weighing a few ounces each really add up into pounds. So, I tend to either carry a dragonfly that weighs roughly 1.25oz or a derma-safe razor that weighs .25 oz. For shorter trips where I have fresh food and plan to do campfires, a larger linerless folder like a Pac Salt or Stretch is worth the weight for me.

@Mushroom well said, agree on all counts and always "hike your own hike"

[Bolster]

I'd also have a multitool on my belt. Weight be damned. If I can't manage with an extra 8oz or whatever on my person then I have bigger problems.

Slightly OT, but gotta ask: What do y'all use a multitool for, when packing? I've never found the need over decades of backpacking, so am curious. I do carry tools, but they are separate small tools like tweezers, SAK scissors, needle & thread, etc. They are almost never used. I'm just curious what you folks are using multitools for? Do you have screws on your pack frame and need a screwdriver to tighten them? Do you take cans and need a can opener? Are you sawing wood? Pliers are for what?

Dialing in a base weight around 10 pounds is more than just a guessing game. It takes a vast amount of experience on the trails to understand our own capabilities and needs for the environments we're in. Learning what we actually need, and why, can be a very enjoyable part of the backpacking experience.

Good post. For the record, I just can't make it to 10 lbs baseweight. I have tried. I'm stuck at 12 lbs and can't seem to go any lighter. Should add that I hike trails, I don't do trail-less cross-country bushwacking except when lost. Cross-country would definitely add weight, although Skurka (https://andrewskurka.com) did cross-country Alaska with a very small base weight. (At one point he warded off a griz with a hiking pole!) His 3-season base is usually 7-14 lbs.

[Bolster]

I enjoy pre-planned long backpacking trips with modern equipment, and the most I can expect to cut are packages of freeze-dried food, paracord, and first aid supplies. Even if campfires were not banned in the areas I frequent, I doubt I would bother because I hike and explore all day, cook dinner with butane, and get into a tent and sleep at sunset. The less pounds I carry, the more I can do with less impact on my body, and I'd rather allocate more weight to things that will keep me alive like clothing layers, my sleep system, fuel, extra food, backup water filter, extra medical supplies, etc. Other non-essential heavier luxury items will also take priority like camp shoes, baby wipes for my ***, headphones and a charging pack for my phone. A bunch of non-essential items weighing a few ounces each really add up into pounds. So, I tend to either carry a dragonfly that weighs roughly 1.25oz or a derma-safe razor that weighs .25 oz. For shorter trips where I have fresh food and plan to do campfires, a larger linerless folder like a Pac Salt or Stretch is worth the weight for me.

I can tell you're experienced by what you will "spend" your weight on, and what you won't. Do you hike in a cold climate? I've been able to dump a fair amount of weight by carrying no stove at all, but that works for a desert rat such as myself. Wouldn't attempt that in cooler climates.

[xceptnl]

The multitool for me is a layer of redundancy as well as my striking tool. I don't carry my Leatherman Charge, but rather my Skeletool. I have made due without a multitool before, but it required a pair of hemostats so my f.a.k. was larger.

I don't know how you are managing a sleep system, pack, food and tools under a 10lb base weight. What size pack are you using?

[spydergoat]

@Bolster Sierra Nevadas so variable conditions with some unexpected storms. I got snow on trail twice last August. I have never done a trip with no stove, but I would like to try it sometime. This looks like an interesting solution to sort of warm the food you cold soak: https://www.gossamergear.com/products/t ... O1ugUHaJPI

[Burton Knut]

I used to carry a full size multi, but began to realize I never used it in the woods. I switched to a Gerber Dime, and though it’s not as good as it could be, it does have pliers, scissors and tweezers. The most complex repair might be a zipper or buckle and the dime is enough to get me fixed and through the trip.

[Evil D]

I'd also have a multitool on my belt. Weight be damned. If I can't manage with an extra 8oz or whatever on my person then I have bigger problems.

Slightly OT, but gotta ask: What do y'all use a multitool for, when packing? I've never found the need over decades of backpacking, so am curious. I do carry tools, but they are separate small tools like tweezers, SAK scissors, needle & thread, etc. They are almost never used. I'm just curious what you folks are using multitools for? Do you have screws on your pack frame and need a screwdriver to tighten them? Do you take cans and need a can opener? Are you sawing wood? Pliers are for what?

I guess for me it's the same "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it" scenario as concealed carry. I don't use my gun and hopefully will never have to, but I carry it anyway because people have found themselves in situations where they wish they had one and like I said 8oz is nothing so if I have a belt on I have a multitool on my hip. I mostly have used the knife and wood saw (saws are a non negotiable for my multitools) but if I were doing more serious woods stuff I'd rather carry a larger folding saw if I can. I guess it's mostly a redundancy talisman for me but I'm totally ok admitting that.

[Bolster]

I don't know how you are managing a sleep system, pack, food and tools under a 10lb base weight. What size pack are you using?

Base weight means everything EXCEPT water and food, which are variable. A 3-day trip for example usually means starting with a 20+ lb pack, which should be down to about 13 lbs at finish, if planned well. Figure carry 1/2 gallon water (+4 lbs) and 1.5 lbs food/day (+5 lbs). Pack is an older Granite Gear Crown VC 60, which isn't a small pack, but it's light. I don't compress my quilt much, so the pack gets filled regardless the weight in it.

@Bolster Sierra Nevadas so variable conditions with some unexpected storms. I got snow on trail twice last August. I have never done a trip with no stove, but I would like to try it sometime. This looks like an interesting solution to sort of warm the food you cold soak: https://www.gossamergear.com/products/t ... O1ugUHaJPI

Love it!!

[xceptnl]

I don't know how you are managing a sleep system, pack, food and tools under a 10lb base weight. What size pack are you using?

Base weight means everything EXCEPT water and food, which are variable. A 3-day trip for example usually means starting with a 20+ lb pack, which should be down to about 13 lbs at finish, if planned well. Figure carry 1/2 gallon water (+4 lbs) and 1.5 lbs food/day (+5 lbs). Pack is an older Granite Gear Crown VC 60, which isn't a small pack, but it's light. I don't compress my quilt much, so the pack gets filled regardless the weight in it.

What does your sleep system consist of?

[Bolster]

What does your sleep system consist of?

For > 32F temps:

EE Revelation 30F quilt - 23 oz
Thermarest Neoair Xlite pad - 12 oz
Katabatic Pinon Bivy - 8 oz
RAB Poncho/Tarp when rain (dual purpose) - 9 oz
Tyvek groundcloth - 6 oz (kinda heavy, looking for replacement)

My "tent" is the weight of a multitool...

...if I were doing more serious woods stuff I'd rather carry a larger folding saw if I can.

Yeah, if you are doing campfires, you gotta tool up sufficiently. Saw a good idea. Fires are pretty much prohibited anywhere I've been hiking recently, and the reason I've had to embrace cold-rehydration. (Quinoa and lentils both cold-rehydrate well, BTW.)

[RustyIron]

Base weight means everything EXCEPT water and food, which are variable.

Ok, that's better. I was thinking that some of these lightweight claims were a bit far-fetched. I never weighed my pack without food and water because I've never carried a pack without food and water.

My typical load-out was 32-33 pounds, which included about 6 pounds of water and several pounds of food. I've never been big on the lightweight backpacking food. I figured that god gave me the strength to carry gourmet food and adult refreshments, so it would be sacrilegious to do anything less. Cooking "nice" food requires a little heat, so I became fond of my Dragonfly stove, despite its above average weight and volume nearing that of a Falcon 9 rocket. For a while I experimented with a "penny stove" made out of a chopped-up soda can. It's fine in warm weather, but was insufficient when it got cold. For lightweight use, my favorite was a stamped titanium alcohol stove. It's a little better than a penny stove, and far more durable.

A nephew just started backpacking. He and his homeboys are young, and have been getting by with sub-optimum gear. Since my stuff has been sitting too long in a spare closet, I gave it all to him just last month. My days of backpacking are over.

[Doc Dan]

Wouldn't a salt knife with a serrated blade be better in case you run into tangled vegetation? Or run into rope tangles that were carried there by a flood? Also wouldn't a lightweight 357 Magnum or 38 special be a good idea in case you run into bears or mountain lions?

[Mushroom]

Believe it or not but the bears and mountain lions actually have carry guns in that area in case they run into Vivi.

[Tgmr05]

Times/technology have changed. When I was younger, I carried a lot more stuff with me. You might need something to get by for a week or so, and not many people were out there.

Now, a smart phone can show your location to others, and even text via satellite with no cell phone coverage. I am not a hard core lightweight speed hiker, but I think like one for different reasons. Just what I need to get where I am going, and multiple people know where I am. Still need first aid, basic essentials, and some way to stay overnight if needed - but truthfully unless hiking for a couple weeks, I carry way less than I used to. I am not planning on comfortably staying out there, anymore - I plan to get back as quick as possible. Even if I get hurt, my plan is get me out quickly. That is what I focus on. And technology has made that more quickly possible versus 30 maybe even 15 years ago. Plus my idea of comfortable is no longer what it used to be..

[Bolster]

...My days of backpacking are over.

Oh, sorry to hear that. My interest is starting up again. Never say never. At my advanced age, I seek out the mild discomfort of backpacking partially as a means of self-discipline, some of that being intellectual self-discipline: to take only what I need. I try to channel my Neanderthal ancestors, who couldn't carry much. After each pack trip I review the gear taken, and items not used are considered for deletion on the next trip. However I still take plenty of "talismans," things that I typically don't use, but wouldn't hike without (compass, knife, matches...). On a recent trip, I used my skeletonized SPY27 Mule to open two food packages...I could have opened them with my fingers, but then the knife would be in danger of going into the "didn't use" column, and I couldn't let that happen...

...So, what did Vivi decide to take?

[xceptnl]

...My days of backpacking are over.

Oh, sorry to hear that. My interest is starting up again. Never say never. At my advanced age, I seek out the mild discomfort of backpacking partially as a means of self-discipline, some of that being intellectual self-discipline: to take only what I need. I try to channel my Neanderthal ancestors, who couldn't carry much. After each pack trip I review the gear taken, and items not used are considered for deletion on the next trip. However I still take plenty of "talismans," things that I typically don't use, but wouldn't hike without (compass, knife, matches...). On a recent trip, I used my skeletonized SPY27 Mule to open two food packages...I could have opened them with my fingers, but then the knife would be in danger of going into the "didn't use" column, and I couldn't let that happen...

...So, what did Vivi decide to take?

I suppose he will tell us when he returns to civilization. This discussion has caused me to evaluate all of my backpacking systems for need vs. want. Thanks for your input Bolster. I'd trying to determine my sleep system based on the weather but I will not know until closer. I have a Durston X-mid 2 that has been my go to tent. 38oz and the space to live inside with a companion in torrential rain conditions for extended days while cooking, etc is worth the weight. Even solo I prefer this, but my hammock setup has become lighter and lighter as I refine it. This is when car camping, not backpacking but it was the basis for what I started to simplify and remove from...

That fly alone is heavier than my entire UL tent. It provides me privacy to change and whatnot while camping in mixed company. I might try the hammock, a sil-poly fly and my whoopee slings for this trip. I need to break out my scale to start doing the math.