CBBL for a "choil-less" Native?

[Manixguy@1994]

@ChoilsChoilsChoils The argument is not "that a choil-less blade, choil-less handle and back-lock mechanism combined don't allow sufficient seating depth for the blade in the handle" - It is that the NATIVE 5'S backlock mechanism would not allow sufficient space for a blade without a choil in the handle. It's not necessarily a limiting factor that is exclusive to the Native 5 either but anytime a lock mechanism is placed in-line with the blade, it will always need to be accounted for when the blade is closed.

It seems to me the Centofante has exactly the arrangement that isn't supposed to be possible? What am I missing?

Assuming you mean the Centofante 3, yes that is a prime example of a backlock without a 50/50 choil.

Does someone need sketch to see why a choil-less Native 5 won't work in its current configuration? I can make you one.

Go for it Nick ! Great idea . Dan

Sure thing!



We can see the lock bar itself gets in the way of the blade on the lockback Native 5 without a choil. It is unlikely that a CBBL would work for the same reason. There is no space for it.

(Please keep in mind that this is not an exact representation of the Native 5 but it is close enough to get the point across. The concept without a choil is nothing more than my own speculated projection of how that might come to fruition. In general this is just a quick sketch for demonstration and not intended to show explicit accuracy.)

Thank you Nick , this was very helpful. Dan

[ChoilsChoilsChoils]

Thanks to everyone for their input, and especially to Nick for those helpful illustrations.

As I see it, there are a few problems and a few solutions.

First, the need for a "kick" at the ricasso to stop the blade from crashing into the lockbar. A kick is one way of doing this, but the same thing could be accomplished by a stop pin (internal or external), or some other abutting feature (perhaps a pair of humps inside the handle that pinch the sides of the blade, like a wedge that can't wedge no more).

Second, the lack of room for a full breadth blade (instead of a blade that is scalloped for a finger choil) around the lockbar pivot area of the handle. Maybe the simplest fix is to move the pivot closer to the front of the handle (I've seen this in very broad-bladed folding knives, like folding santokus), but that might cause mechanical or manipulation issues. Another fix is using a split lockbar like in some AG Russell lockbacks (their lockback wharny and sunfish models use this iirc). The Native lockbar is thick enough to accommodate a trench down the middle, but maybe having a two-piece lockbar pivot would be a problem.

I thought maybe it was important that the "kick" contact the lockbar below the lockbar pivot (as it does on the Native and Lil Native), because it might affect the closing bias or smoothness of opening. All of my Spyderco lockbacks (or mid-back-locks, to be precise) are like this, and none of my non-Spyderco lockbacks are.

[Wartstein]

...
First, the need for a "kick" at the ricasso to stop the blade from crashing into the lockbar. A kick is one way of doing this, but the same thing could be accomplished by a stop pin (internal or external), or some other abutting feature (perhaps a pair of humps inside the handle that pinch the sides of the blade, like a wedge that can't wedge no more).
...

I wish they´d utilize the Chaparral approach (internal stop pin) on more lockback knives - This should allow for a cutting edge all the way to the handle which is also really long in comparison to the handle length also on a backlock.
Of course the "drop the blade on the forefinger" closing method could become a problem then...

[ChoilsChoilsChoils]

...
First, the need for a "kick" at the ricasso to stop the blade from crashing into the lockbar. A kick is one way of doing this, but the same thing could be accomplished by a stop pin (internal or external), or some other abutting feature (perhaps a pair of humps inside the handle that pinch the sides of the blade, like a wedge that can't wedge no more).
...

I wish they´d utilize the Chaparral approach (internal stop pin) on more lockback knives - This should allow for a cutting edge all the way to the handle which is also really long in comparison to the handle length also on a backlock.
Of course the "drop the blade on the forefinger" closing method could become a problem then...

I've often wondered why Spyderco doesn't use a Chaparral-style stop pin on other models, but in the particular case of the Native I think it might interfere with lockup since the bevelled top of the lockbar allows it to self-tighten.