Metal Injection Molding by Magpul. Thoughts?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

When I wss first introduced to MIM technologies I was told, "at last. The scifi technology of plasteel nade reality. Hard steel that can be molded and be as elastic as polymers."

[Rival22]

I'll wait for consumer testing. The $200+ price of the knives doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, personally. You are competing with products not just like Spyderco's USA-made models, but stuff like the TRM Atom and Neutron for example. Where's the advantage for the consumer if they cost the same and the steel "performs roughly the same"?

I'm intrigued by any real advancement in the industry, but yeah, consumer testing will be good to watch for this. This model doesn't do much for me aesthetically, so I'm definitely in the "wait and see" camp for a couple of reasons.

[z1r]

Cast metal

Cast metal is a proven technology. Ruger has supplied fantastically strong revolvers made with cast technologies.

[z1r]

At $200 no thanks.
As many mentioned, Kershaw made a MIM knife in the mid 2000’s (I thought 07 but somebody mentioned 06).
I don’t believe that performance will compare to traditionally made steels. I know that the mim parts on my firearms often show wear that I consider fairly premature.

As with everything, it comes down to proper heat treating.

[Danke]

Spyderco too has made a MIM knife; the C108 Bi-Fold. Although, IIRC, only the handle was made with MIM-technology. It's a shame that knife never properly came to market due to legal issues (it was considered an automatic). Spyderco could have gained a lot of MIM experience since 2010 or so.

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... trade-/268

[pinchyfisher]

Thanks for sharing. Spyderco excursion into MIM was well before I got into the knife game.

This topic gets curioser and curioser...

[Mk-211]

Being that Kershaw only produced a small amount of the Offset knives...

I'm wondering how they've held up, in the almost 2 decades, since they were released.

There's a couple on ebay, they appear to be safe queens/collector pieces.

[Mrj]

Cast metal

Cast metal is a proven technology. Ruger has supplied fantastically strong revolvers made with cast technologies.

Also many aluminum wheels are cast. But doesn’t mean it’s good for knives. Only time will tell if it is. I prefer my metals forged. That’s why billet aluminum car parts are stronger. I’m sure it will be good for some tasks tho.

[Vamais]

All metal products start out as castings. Further thermo-mechanical processing will alter the microstructure, which will change the material properties.

Don't disparage a part simply because it has been cast. There are sophisticated casting processes that yield parts with extremely desirable properties. For example, turbine blades in jet engines are often single-crystal castings. PM steels are cast, then sintered, HIPed, rolled, ground, and heat treated.

If you want to have an idea of how a metal will perform before physically testing it, you need to understand the specific microstructure and the environment it will be used in. It is nowhere near as simple as "forged good, cast bad". Changes in geometry can be used to account for differences in mechanical properties, yielding a part with sufficient or improved performance despite lower mechanical properties. Remember, mechanical properties are measured in terms of area, so if you have something made with significantly more of a slightly weaker material, you will have a stronger part.

[Mrj]

Don't disparage a part simply because it has been cast.
It is nowhere near as simple as "forged good, cast bad".

My opinion only here.
“Casted products ok”
“Forged products even better”
I understand casted metal can be strong.
I guess price plays a huge part as well.
S35vn $200 ain’t cheap.
15v for under $200 is a way better deal.
To each there own I guess.

[sal]

Hi Cobra,

Thanx for the link. It's certainly an interesting technology and certainly worthy of trying.

Our engineers have been talking about this for some time. Magpul is good company with some smart folks. I guess we'll watch them as well as others. I applaud them for their efforts. Time will tell if the process can do exotic blade steels and how well.

We've played around with MIM some and will no doubt continue to do so.

sal

[Mad Mac]

Well, Sir, with your permission,
I'm going to try one for all the wrong reasons.
First, I'm a pushover for a Wharncliffe and a hollow grind.
(Can injection molding be a true hollow "grind".)

And you see, I have a green Magpul rifle stock on a 6.5 Creedmoor
and the Breslau is available with green scales
so the urge for a complementary Magpul knife is irresistible.

But I think I have purchased enough Spydercos
to earn the right to leave the reservation briefly
for a tryst with another knife.

Best wishes for continued success
and have a prosperous 2025.

Mac

[Mk-211]

Well, Sir, with your permission,
I'm going to try one for all the wrong reasons.
First, I'm a pushover for a Wharncliffe and a hollow grind.
(Can injection molding be a true hollow "grind".)

And you see, I have a green Magpul rifle stock on a 6.5 Creedmoor
and the Breslau is available with green scales
so the urge for a complementary Magpul knife is irresistible.

But I think I have purchased enough Spydercos
to earn the right to leave the reservation briefly
for a tryst with another knife.

Best wishes for continued success
and have a prosperous 2025.

Mac

Yeah, I did the thing also.

Plenty of Magpul fanboi's out there if I decide it's not for me.

Funny, I have an OD green PRS stock on one of my lowers. Got the green also, I liked it the best, of the choices.

Gonna be interesting to watch the testing on them. Not to break them, just to see how well they hold up, to real world testing.

I'm sure someone will test them to absolute failure. Very few people use their knives that hard.

[Bill1170]

I just finished watching this excellent video from BladeHQ announcing Magpul knives made with injected metal. Here’s the link:

[bbvideo] [/bbvideo]

This technology could be a step forward in the knife world and so naturally I thought of Spyderco and wanted to hear Sals thoughts and from other members of the forum.

Apparently they claim that they used S35VN steel and their test results from CATRA indicated that the blades performed as well and somewhat better than cold rolled or CPM steel.

This does sound promising. I look forward to reading field reports from end users.

I wonder how they consolidate the PM steel after baking out the organic resin? Since it’s near-net shape I picture shaped forging dies to squeeze the blades even nearer to final dimensions.

[Mr Blonde]

Spyderco too has made a MIM knife; the C108 Bi-Fold. Although, IIRC, only the handle was made with MIM-technology. It's a shame that knife never properly came to market due to legal issues (it was considered an automatic). Spyderco could have gained a lot of MIM experience since 2010 or so.

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... trade-/268

Good catch!

[Synov]

I wonder how they consolidate the PM steel after baking out the organic resin? Since it’s near-net shape I picture shaped forging dies to squeeze the blades even nearer to final dimensions.

Just sintering with HIP will cause it to shrink down but maintain it's shape.

[Bill1170]

I wonder how they consolidate the PM steel after baking out the organic resin? Since it’s near-net shape I picture shaped forging dies to squeeze the blades even nearer to final dimensions.

Just sintering with HIP will cause it to shrink down but maintain it's shape.

So are you suggesting that the blades are hot isostatic pressed into their final shape? In regular powdered metallurgy the HIP takes place in bulk. But in a near-net shape MIM process the HIP would have to occur after the shape is molded. As I understand it the HIP cannot occur until the resin is cooked out and the piece has shrunk to final dimensions.

Or maybe the high pressure step is not needed for MIM parts? I’d like to understand how this process works.

[Enactive]

I wonder how they consolidate the PM steel after baking out the organic resin? Since it’s near-net shape I picture shaped forging dies to squeeze the blades even nearer to final dimensions.

Just sintering with HIP will cause it to shrink down but maintain it's shape.

So are you suggesting that the blades are hot isostatic pressed into their final shape? In regular powdered metallurgy the HIP takes place in bulk. But in a near-net shape MIM process the HIP would have to occur after the shape is molded. As I understand it the HIP cannot occur until the resin is cooked out and the piece has shrunk to final dimensions.

Or maybe the high pressure step is not needed for MIM parts? I’d like to understand how this process works.

These are really interesting and important questions for understanding the process. I'd like to learn more about these details too-- although I would not be surprised if that is proprietary information.

It would be cool if anyone can share more insight.

[Mk-211]

[Scandi Grind]

Interesting lock design they got there, seems like it was only possible to do efficiently with MIM.

I can't tell from the block diagram -- is there a spring in there? I don't understand how it works exactly.

I have been trying to figure out where the springs were looking at the diagram on the BladeHQ listing and I don't see springs in that picture, but I just read the BladeHQ article that says it is sprung using two coil springs, which sounds nice.