SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[40mm]

Hey kids. Been out of the loop for awhile, but finally came to my senses and I sourced another serrated H1 Dragonfly. Last one I had was used, and the prior owner rounded the edges beautifully. Worn in to perfection. I only have the grey and white rods for my Sharpmaker, but wondering which angle you would use to get started round off the teeth?

Might be that in the 30 degree setting the rod does not even hit the very edge, but just in the 40 degree setting, you'd have to try that.

If this is the case I'd go 40 to round off the teeth, because actually reprofiling the edge with just the brown rod should be a looooong process, even with H2...

You could order diamond/CBN rods though, or as some here appearantly have done successfully wrap very coarse sandpaper around your sharpmaker rod (personally no experience with that approach).

Ahh forgot about the sandpaper trick. I’ll give it a go. Thanks!

[Palestrina]

Maybe this is the wrong Thread - if so please let me know - but I've ran int some issues sharpening my Delica K390 SE.

I basically use the method as shown in the Sharpmaker instructional video, just the corners of the white rods, my only twist on it is to run the "back" side of the serrations nearly flat on the stone.

I workfs fine I guess, all the serrrations slice through paper easily, except for the ones I've marked on the image below. I've tried everything, this bunch just won't get sharp.

Nothing too troublesome, but it bugs me to be honest.

Have any of you ever experienced something like this?

[dsvirsky]

Exact same advice as for PE: use Magic Marker to make sure you are, in fact, hitting the edge. If you're not completely "erasing" the marker from the edge, you need to adjust your sharpening angle or reprofile the bevel (not recommended with SE K390 unless you're a glutton for punishment )

[sal]

Hi Palestrina,

I would suggest that you get a magnifying loupe, approximately 10X- 12X. You will then clearly be able to see what the problem might be.

sal

[Wartstein]

Maybe this is the wrong Thread - if so please let me know - but I've ran int some issues sharpening my Delica K390 SE.

I basically use the method as shown in the Sharpmaker instructional video, just the corners of the white rods, my only twist on it is to run the "back" side of the serrations nearly flat on the stone.

I workfs fine I guess, all the serrrations slice through paper easily, except for the ones I've marked on the image below. I've tried everything, this bunch just won't get sharp.

Serrations.JPG

Nothing too troublesome, but it bugs me to be honest.

Have any of you ever experienced something like this?

Sounds weird to me - you generally clearly know what you are doing, since you CAN get the majority of the serrations sharp, and it is also not just the tip or just the heel area that give you troubles but a short area in between (which to me is even more unusual).

Generally I have no idea how hard (or not) it is to sharpen serrations in such a hard steel... always shyed away myself, since SE in for example VG10 holds an edge a lot longer than in PE anyway, and serrations in those "softer" steels are a breeze to sharpen on the SM.

So just two random, probably not really helpfull inputs:

- Of course you CAN also use coarser rods than the whites also on SE and they will cut faster - I´d definitely try the brown ones (even more so on such a hard steel!), personally I also use my CBNs on SE, but sure the corners of these ones wear out quite a bit.

- You are probably used to follow the curve of the edge from PE sharpening. NOT a thing with SE though.

[Palestrina]

I've tried to take some more useful pictures.

It's quite interesting - it seems like I've created a pretty even microbevel all the way through, except this area, where it looks a bit damaged. I've used this knife - for testing purposes - non-stop over the last 2 weeks, and it once got caught on a metal clamp on some cardboard, maybe that's the issue.

All in all I'm very pleased with the performance of the serrations.

Exact same advice as for PE: use Magic Marker to make sure you are, in fact, hitting the edge. If you're not completely "erasing" the marker from the edge, you need to adjust your sharpening angle or reprofile the bevel (not recommended with SE K390 unless you're a glutton for punishment )

As you see on the pictures I have created a microbevel - on this portion I've used a Sharpie, just to be sure

Hi Palestrina,

I would suggest that you get a magnifying loupe, approximately 10X- 12X. You will then clearly be able to see what the problem might be.

sal

The more I get into sharpening, the more I might have a use for a loupe. Sharpening K390 SE is a different experience than my old Opinel knives. Since you seem to be active in this thread I need to tell you that the Lil' Native and the Delica are probably the best knives I've ever owned!

Maybe this is the wrong Thread - if so please let me know - but I've ran int some issues sharpening my Delica K390 SE.

I basically use the method as shown in the Sharpmaker instructional video, just the corners of the white rods, my only twist on it is to run the "back" side of the serrations nearly flat on the stone.

I workfs fine I guess, all the serrrations slice through paper easily, except for the ones I've marked on the image below. I've tried everything, this bunch just won't get sharp.

Serrations.JPG

Nothing too troublesome, but it bugs me to be honest.

Have any of you ever experienced something like this?

Sounds weird to me - you generally clearly know what you are doing, since you CAN get the majority of the serrations sharp, and it is also not just the tip or just the heel area that give you troubles but a short area in between (which to me is even more unusual).

Generally I have no idea how hard (or not) it is to sharpen serrations in such a hard steel... always shyed away myself, since SE in for example VG10 holds an edge a lot longer than in PE anyway, and serrations in those "softer" steels are a breeze to sharpen on the SM.

So just two random, probably not really helpfull inputs:

- Of course you CAN also use coarser rods than the whites also on SE and they will cut faster - I´d definitely try the brown ones (even more so on such a hard steel!), personally I also use my CBNs on SE, but sure the corners of these ones wear out quite a bit.

- You are probably used to follow the curve of the edge from PE sharpening. NOT a thing with SE though.

Since it seems like the blade is slightly damaged in this area I might have to change to coarser rods, I'll give it a try.

And yes, I am used to following the curve of the blade. If I understand you correctly - I keep the blade at 90 degrees and just pull back while moving down on the rods, instead of descending with the tip while following the blade?

A whole new wworld of sharpening seems to have opened up now

[Bill1170]

I recommend the CBN rods to repair the damage, most likely from hitting the clamp. In your photos it appears that there are striations in each scallop. Is that really how they appear to the eye, or is it just a digital artifact? Light force is key on CBN rods’ corners; let the abrasive do the work.

[Evil D]

And yes, I am used to following the curve of the blade. If I understand you correctly - I keep the blade at 90 degrees and just pull back while moving down on the rods, instead of descending with the tip while following the blade?

A whole new wworld of sharpening seems to have opened up now

Yes. Hold the knife up against the rod as if you're about to make a pass and look at the angle of the scallops, and adjust the angle you're holding the blade until they look as upright as possible and then lock your wrist in that position. I also don't try to cover the whole length of the blade in one downward pass, just pull the blade across for 3-4 scallops at a time and then start back up where you left off, so you'll end up making several passes just to cover the length of the blade. This helps to keep the rods moving in the same direction as the serrations are ground. When you try to cover the whole blade in one pass you get a very diagonal scratch pattern. This isn't necessarily the worst thing, I've done it on a lot of knives, but I've found that several short passes is better in the long run than a single pass along the whole edge.

[vivi]

interesting. i've always done one pass for the entire blade except for pong bread knives, and haven't noticed any negatives. what about your method works better for you than full passes?

[Evil D]

interesting. i've always done one pass for the entire blade except for pong bread knives, and haven't noticed any negatives. what about your method works better for you than full passes?

I'm pretty certain this is why I ruined my Police 4. It just seems like when you get too lateral across the scallops vs being more vertical in your movements they bump over the rods and don't get into the centers well enough. This may just be my own user error, and doing it the other way works better for me.

[vivi]

I haven't run into that issue but next time I need to sharpen a SE knife I will try it the way you do it and see if I notice any differences in the outcome.

[Wartstein]

And yes, I am used to following the curve of the blade. If I understand you correctly - I keep the blade at 90 degrees and just pull back while moving down on the rods, instead of descending with the tip while following the blade?

Sorry for my late reply, but I think David and Vivi have answered your question to me better already than I could.

Actually it was Vivi who made me aware of this "not having to follow the curve of the edge" in his very helpfull SE sharpening thread / post (viewtopic.php?p=1349519#p1349519 ) I highly recommend reading his tips and initial post and watch the short vid.

And a whole lot I know about serrations comes from Davids inputs in this very thread - or often rather explanations for what I experienced in my own use rather "instinctively".

/ I am actually very interested in all of yours (and others) findings on sharpening SE in "hard supersteels" - as said already, as much as I love SE, with that I have no experience myself. Always sticked to quicker to grind steels like VG10 and LC200N when it comes to "teeth"

[Jeb]

EvilD,
To have a SE Police4 ruined as you mentioned, would be very hard to except if was mine. Regardless of how hard, I would go as far as to completely re profile that blades edge.
That's a heck of a knife, and would be really hard to except that kind of condition.

[Evil D]

EvilD,
To have a SE Police4 ruined as you mentioned, would be very hard to except if was mine. Regardless of how hard, I would go as far as to completely re profile that blades edge.
That's a heck of a knife, and would be really hard to except that kind of condition.

It's all my own doing, but it's about 90% on its way to being a chisel grind plain edge. Mistakes were made but also lessons learned. Reprofiling doesn't always go as planned.

[Palestrina]

First of all, thanks for the replies.

I've sort of combined all of your information and got to work again. Starting with the CBN rods, then the medium ones and finishing with the fine rod. For the back / flat side I've only used the white stones to remove the burr.

Using the CBN rods I had to lower the pressure to a point where I would barely even touch the rod, otherwise it would get caught in nearly every single tooth, but in the end it worked.

I had to do roughly 80 passes on the CBN stones, followed up by about 50 passes on the medium rods, and again around 50 on the fine stones. I've used a 5 / 1 ratio between the grounded and the flat side.

K390 might have been a weird place to start with SE sharpening anyways

Now the edge is amazing from heel to tip. Let's see how long it will keep this edge .

[Wartstein]

First of all, thanks for the replies.

I've sort of combined all of your information and got to work again. Starting with the CBN rods, then the medium ones and finishing with the fine rod. For the back / flat side I've only used the white stones to remove the burr.

Using the CBN rods I had to lower the pressure to a point where I would barely even touch the rod, otherwise it would get caught in nearly every single tooth, but in the end it worked.

I had to do roughly 80 passes on the CBN stones, followed up by about 50 passes on the medium rods, and again around 50 on the fine stones. I've used a 5 / 1 ratio between the grounded and the flat side.

K390 might have been a weird place to start with SE sharpening anyways

Now the edge is amazing from heel to tip. Let's see how long it will keep this edge .

Well done!

And I do hope at one point you´ll also get an SE Spydie in a "softer" steel (since you like the Delica, its linerless Salt version, the Salt 2 in LC200N (and SE) would perhaps be a good choice. You´d also get an a bit thicker (but lighter) handle and a bit more blade and edge length).

It really appears you know what you are doing with sharpening and detecting where an edge got a bit damaged, and I would be interested indeed if the thin serated edge in a supersteel like K390 perhaps really comes earlier to its limit than in the softer, but very tough LC200N.

I don´t know from my own experience. But should perhaps finally try to find a serrated K390 Endura and test it myself...

[Palestrina]

First of all, thanks for the replies.

I've sort of combined all of your information and got to work again. Starting with the CBN rods, then the medium ones and finishing with the fine rod. For the back / flat side I've only used the white stones to remove the burr.

Using the CBN rods I had to lower the pressure to a point where I would barely even touch the rod, otherwise it would get caught in nearly every single tooth, but in the end it worked.

I had to do roughly 80 passes on the CBN stones, followed up by about 50 passes on the medium rods, and again around 50 on the fine stones. I've used a 5 / 1 ratio between the grounded and the flat side.

K390 might have been a weird place to start with SE sharpening anyways

Now the edge is amazing from heel to tip. Let's see how long it will keep this edge .

Well done!

And I do hope at one point you´ll also get an SE Spydie in a "softer" steel (since you like the Delica, its linerless Salt version, the Salt 2 in LC200N (and SE) would perhaps be a good choice. You´d also get an a bit thicker (but lighter) handle and a bit more blade and edge length).

It really appears you know what you are doing with sharpening and detecting where an edge got a bit damaged, and I would be interested indeed if the thin serated edge in a supersteel like K390 perhaps really comes earlier to its limit than in the softer, but very tough LC200N.

I don´t know from my own experience. But should perhaps finally try to find a serrated K390 Endura and test it myself...

Hi!

It took quite some effort, but I've damaged the blade myself, so there's no need to complain. K390 is an excellent steel, and there are still K390 SE Enduras available at Knivesandtools. I can highly recommend it if you're not planning on using the knife in a moist environment - basic care as wwith all carbon steels and I have no issues at all. K390 is much more resistant to rust or patina compared traditional carbon steels.

I guess my next order will include the Delica Wharncliffe SE in VG10, my guess is it will be a great working knife.

Don't get the wrong impression here, I had to put in quite a lot of work because I have damaged the blade, other than that K390 never caused me any troubles getting it razor sharp ond the Sharpmaker, it's a fantastic steel.

Here's a picture of pull-through cuts with the K390 SE, keep in mind this has been my first attempt at sharpening a serrated edge, and it has been damaged. I'm quite happy with the performance.

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

interesting. i've always done one pass for the entire blade except for pong bread knives, and haven't noticed any negatives. what about your method works better for you than full passes?

I'm pretty certain this is why I ruined my Police 4. It just seems like when you get too lateral across the scallops vs being more vertical in your movements they bump over the rods and don't get into the centers well enough. This may just be my own user error, and doing it the other way works better for me.

A few months back we were rained out so I decided to pull out the Sharpmaker and get busy on some SE sharpening but I kept noticing the centers getting missed so I slowed down and it was better but not as good this method so thanks for the tip @Evil D…I can definitely see and feel a difference…I also remember somewhere @Windward saying he hit the backside eight passes so I tried that on a couple knives but eventually settled on three passes and even though I’m no sharpening guru holy cow! I’m curious to know how many passes on the backside others do.

[vivi]

i start with a 5:1 ratio but finish with 1:1

[Wartstein]

Hi!

It took quite some effort, but I've damaged the blade myself, so there's no need to complain. K390 is an excellent steel, and there are still K390 SE Enduras available at Knivesandtools. I can highly recommend it if you're not planning on using the knife in a moist environment - basic care as wwith all carbon steels and I have no issues at all. K390 is much more resistant to rust or patina compared traditional carbon steels.

I guess my next order will include the Delica Wharncliffe SE in VG10, my guess is it will be a great working knife.

Don't get the wrong impression here, I had to put in quite a lot of work because I have damaged the blade, other than that K390 never caused me any troubles getting it razor sharp ond the Sharpmaker, it's a fantastic steel.

Here's a picture of pull-through cuts with the K390 SE, keep in mind this has been my first attempt at sharpening a serrated edge, and it has been damaged. I'm quite happy with the performance.


20241219_131500.jpg

Concerning K390 / tool steels: I actually really like when blades get a patina or spots (black or even red), makes the knife more personal and indistinctive, more interesting and beautiful and shows its "life".
And/but for whatever reason it is not "easy" for me to rust knives anyway (despite using them, also with tool steel, in moist conditions or on food (fruits..) a lot, carry them iwb when running (and sweating) and so on.
So no worries here anyway.

Yes, K390 SE Enduras are still to be found - even for good prices.. I am really tempted. especially so that I could find out myself how the durability / resistance to chipping of very hard SE is compared to the SE in VG10, LC 200N, H1 I am used to and especially how much harder it would be to sharpen.

Vice versa I am also very interested in YOUR findings on this (sharpening SE in K390 vs SE in VG10)!

/ I´d also like to once more highly recommend getting the Chaparral SE, especially for the great prices it can be had right now here in Europe (see my post here viewtopic.php?p=1811245#p1811245)... it is amazing, really highlights what SE can do, and I am sure you´d also be impressed with its fit, finish and quality (not that Seki FRNs would be "bad", actually most of my Spydies are just that and I love them, but the Chap still is on another level)
You can also browse through this viewtopic.php?t=96972 thread in order to see how much people like its performance