The Delica problem

[Wartstein]

I am sure you´d love the Chaparral, it has an even thinner blade than Dfly and Delica, but a really tank-like built (and as said there are classy versions like that one https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C152WD/1917)
Since you are in Austria too, I could actually send you my Chap so you can try it out for a while, just pm me for that should you consider it (soon I´ll also have the serrated version

/ And yes, the Native backlock / lockup is great, to me undoubtedly better than the Delicas, as much as I prefer the latter otherwise (and the Delica lock is fine too, don´t get me wrong).

That's a really nice offer, but I have to decline, as I'm pretty sure the one knife I would lose or chip the blad would be a borrowed one :) But you somehow already sold me on the Chapparal, I've looked into it, and it seems like a step between my Lil' Native and the Delica.

The Lil' Native lockup is great, for sure more refined than on the Delica, but then - we're whining on a high level here, I'm confident I will never have any issues with the Delica lockup. It's just a different feeling while opening and closing.

Five Delicas - no noticeable lock rock for now, seems fine to me.

I don't think there's enough difference between SPY27 and S30V to see any real advantages or disadvantages compared to each other in real world use. I would lean toward SPY27 for a few reasons. I like the handle color better, you can get an S30V blade knife from pretty much every reputable knife maker while SPY27 is exclusive to Spyderco of course, and as a Spyderco fan it's nice to have in the collection. I think those factors make the SPY27 variant worth the slight price premium.

I also think the LC200N Native 5 Salt is worth looking at when Spyderco does another run. I like both the toughness and ease of sharpenability of LC200N, along with the obvious extreme corrosion resistance. Likewise, while LC200V isn't a Spyderco exclusive, they're one of the few companies using it while many companies are offering knives in MagnaCut.

Your arguments for SPY27 seem convincing, and I'm also into the blue handle on the Native 5 LW. LC200 seems more versatile than H1 or H2 if I'm trusting the Internet.

I won't pile on any since you've taken on so much, but I will say that my wife carries the ZDP-189 dragonfly and she loves it. Discrete and punches above it's weight!

I guess VG-10 should be fine for my wife as well, she usually only cuts open coffee bags, packages and comparable things. Easy office use, so to speak.

Everyone has their favorite... Me its the endura...

The Endura seems a bit big for a folder, does it feel as strong as a Delica?

Did someone mention the Delica?

Welcome to the party, the rabbit hole goes deep though...
..

Some of them are so beautiful I would be afraid of ever using them, really impressive, especially the "266" with the bonne handle and the bug bolsters.

After seeing this pic, you need a green serrated Salt 2 in LC200N in your life! Drop point or Wharncliffe….that’s up to you?

Everyone recommends the Salt series. I'm fine with either a yellow or green handle, so I have to decide if I should go for LC200 oder H1 steel. C88FSGR2 has caught my attention...

My 2c on your points:

- Sending you Spydies of mine to try them out:

Should you ever change your mind and accept that offer: No worries, getting lost or chips is just what can happen to folders, I would not blame you (unless you´d literally throw one off a bridge... )

- Chap "between Lil Native and Delica" and lockup

Here one great thing about the Chap comes into play again: In closed size it is much closer to a Lil Native than a Delica (Lil Native 88 mm , Chap 91, Delica 108), but in blade length closer to a Delica (Lil Native 61 mm, Chap 71 mm, Delica 74 mm) - also, the Chap is a thinner and imo thus overall better carry than the Lil Native (which also imo has a really (too) fat blade for such a tiny knife with its 3mm (Chap 2mm) - the Lil Native LW will do that better (2.5 mm)).

Yes, the Native lockup is great - but the Chaps might be even better, due to its construction with stop pin - ?

- Endura "a bit big" and "does it feel as strong as a Delica"?

To me personally the Endura has the perfect, regular size for an EDC folder, but yes, most would probably consider it to be a big one.
And yes, it does feel as strong as a Delica, because imo with the Endura family they did the "up-/down sizing" right (differently to the Para 3 / PM2): The Delica is not just a shortened version of the Endura, but has a thinner blade and also thinner and less tall handle. So on the flipside the Endura is made beefier in each dimension compared to a Delica.
You could go with the "mid sized" Endela though! To me though this one actually is rather 90% Endura and 10% Delica, but still shorter than the former - and its SE version has perfect serrations, really something to try!

- "C88FSGR2 " and H2 vs LC200N

Yes, that´s the Salt 2 version I own too - "regular" blade shape (with an a bit "sheepsfooty" tip) and teeth.
Great knife, though as said :The type of serrations it offers are not my favorite ones: A bit too aggressive and "snaggy" out of the box - still very good and I prefer them over PE, but they´ll need quite some sharpenings till they´ll perform like the Endela SE does right out of the box.

One big difference between LC200 N and H2 is, that the former comes in ffg, the latter in sabre hollow grind.
For regular EDC I prefer ffg, but the H2 hollow grind has things going for it too... very good for matter with not too large diameter, bites into wood better, an overall stronger blade and especially tip, because the blade does not taper (which on the flipside is not great for slicing and fine tip work though).

Serrations in H2 are great, very durable and hold an egde for a very long time (unlike H2 in PE).
I´d still go for the LC200N ffg SE version. Technically H2 is even more corrosion resistant than LC, but in my use both are completely rust proof.

[Mr Blonde]

Some of them are so beautiful I would be afraid of ever using them, really impressive, especially the "266" with the bonne handle and the bug bolsters.

Yes, these are my collectibles. the 25th anniversary Delica gets plenty of attention, just not for cutting. I do give the jigged bone damascus delica a light workout once in a while, but only for 'suit and tie' occasions.

[cycleguy]

@cycleguy - I think you've posted this picture in my first Delica thread. Now that I look at it again, I seems like there are some Salts in there as well. The three grreen scaled ones? One in the middle and two on the bottom left?

Yes … I’ve posted it before. Much the same but the green one not so pristine.

[Palestrina]

Yes, these are my collectibles. the 25th anniversary Delica gets plenty of attention, just not for cutting. I do give the jigged bone damascus delica a light workout once in a while, but only for 'suit and tie' occasions.

I can see why, they are really nice.

I am sure you´d love the Chaparral, it has an even thinner blade than Dfly and Delica, but a really tank-like built (and as said there are classy versions like that one https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C152WD/1917)
Since you are in Austria too, I could actually send you my Chap so you can try it out for a while, just pm me for that should you consider it (soon I´ll also have the serrated version

/ And yes, the Native backlock / lockup is great, to me undoubtedly better than the Delicas, as much as I prefer the latter otherwise (and the Delica lock is fine too, don´t get me wrong).

That's a really nice offer, but I have to decline, as I'm pretty sure the one knife I would lose or chip the blad would be a borrowed one :) But you somehow already sold me on the Chapparal, I've looked into it, and it seems like a step between my Lil' Native and the Delica.

The Lil' Native lockup is great, for sure more refined than on the Delica, but then - we're whining on a high level here, I'm confident I will never have any issues with the Delica lockup. It's just a different feeling while opening and closing.

Five Delicas - no noticeable lock rock for now, seems fine to me.

I don't think there's enough difference between SPY27 and S30V to see any real advantages or disadvantages compared to each other in real world use. I would lean toward SPY27 for a few reasons. I like the handle color better, you can get an S30V blade knife from pretty much every reputable knife maker while SPY27 is exclusive to Spyderco of course, and as a Spyderco fan it's nice to have in the collection. I think those factors make the SPY27 variant worth the slight price premium.

I also think the LC200N Native 5 Salt is worth looking at when Spyderco does another run. I like both the toughness and ease of sharpenability of LC200N, along with the obvious extreme corrosion resistance. Likewise, while LC200V isn't a Spyderco exclusive, they're one of the few companies using it while many companies are offering knives in MagnaCut.

Your arguments for SPY27 seem convincing, and I'm also into the blue handle on the Native 5 LW. LC200 seems more versatile than H1 or H2 if I'm trusting the Internet.

I won't pile on any since you've taken on so much, but I will say that my wife carries the ZDP-189 dragonfly and she loves it. Discrete and punches above it's weight!

I guess VG-10 should be fine for my wife as well, she usually only cuts open coffee bags, packages and comparable things. Easy office use, so to speak.

Everyone has their favorite... Me its the endura...

The Endura seems a bit big for a folder, does it feel as strong as a Delica?

Did someone mention the Delica?

Welcome to the party, the rabbit hole goes deep though...
..

Some of them are so beautiful I would be afraid of ever using them, really impressive, especially the "266" with the bonne handle and the bug bolsters.

After seeing this pic, you need a green serrated Salt 2 in LC200N in your life! Drop point or Wharncliffe….that’s up to you?

Everyone recommends the Salt series. I'm fine with either a yellow or green handle, so I have to decide if I should go for LC200 oder H1 steel. C88FSGR2 has caught my attention...

My 2c on your points:

- Sending you Spydies of mine to try them out:

Should you ever change your mind and accept that offer: No worries, getting lost or chips is just what can happen to folders, I would not blame you (unless you´d literally throw one off a bridge... )

- Chap "between Lil Native and Delica" and lockup

Here one great thing about the Chap comes into play again: In closed size it is much closer to a Lil Native than a Delica (Lil Native 88 mm , Chap 91, Delica 108), but in blade length closer to a Delica (Lil Native 61 mm, Chap 71 mm, Delica 74 mm) - also, the Chap is a thinner and imo thus overall better carry than the Lil Native (which also imo has a really (too) fat blade for such a tiny knife with its 3mm (Chap 2mm) - the Lil Native LW will do that better (2.5 mm)).

Yes, the Native lockup is great - but the Chaps might be even better, due to its construction with stop pin - ?

- Endura "a bit big" and "does it feel as strong as a Delica"?

To me personally the Endura has the perfect, regular size for an EDC folder, but yes, most would probably consider it to be a big one.
And yes, it does feel as strong as a Delica, because imo with the Endura family they did the "up-/down sizing" right (differently to the Para 3 / PM2): The Delica is not just a shortened version of the Endura, but has a thinner blade and also thinner and less tall handle. So on the flipside the Endura is made beefier in each dimension compared to a Delica.
You could go with the "mid sized" Endela though! To me though this one actually is rather 90% Endura and 10% Delica, but still shorter than the former - and its SE version has perfect serrations, really something to try!

- "C88FSGR2 " and H2 vs LC200N

Yes, that´s the Salt 2 version I own too - "regular" blade shape (with an a bit "sheepsfooty" tip) and teeth.
Great knife, though as said :The type of serrations it offers are not my favorite ones: A bit too aggressive and "snaggy" out of the box - still very good and I prefer them over PE, but they´ll need quite some sharpenings till they´ll perform like the Endela SE does right out of the box.

One big difference between LC200 N and H2 is, that the former comes in ffg, the latter in sabre hollow grind.
For regular EDC I prefer ffg, but the H2 hollow grind has things going for it too... very good for matter with not too large diameter, bites into wood better, an overall stronger blade and especially tip, because the blade does not taper (which on the flipside is not great for slicing and fine tip work though).

Serrations in H2 are great, very durable and hold an egde for a very long time (unlike H2 in PE).
I´d still go for the LC200N ffg SE version. Technically H2 is even more corrosion resistant than LC, but in my use both are completely rust proof.

That's some great information, I'll keep that in mind.

And again, thank you for the nice offer. The Chaparral Birdseye Maple looks especially intriguing.

The K390 serrated Delica has been discontinued and is being offered at smokin' good prices. You really need to buy one. Or maybe you should get two, just in case. I'm glad I could be of help.

Sir, your quite funny comment got me thinking, and it turns out you were absolutely right.

I have found 2 new K390 SE Delicas here in Europe, for 155 USD / 148 EUR each. I thought about it for like ten minutes and then pulled the trigger - they should arrive next week. I'm proud to have been convinced to make a wise financial decision by a random stranger on the Internet.

These two Delicas could have been a Native 5 FRN and a Chapparral

Can't wait to test my first serrated Spydercos...

[JFR1]

Hello again,
....
I've been interested in the Native 5, but
....
How do I break this cycle?

My fellow Spyderco enthusiast, you buy a Native 5. You experience the joy of the superb lockup of the Golden, CO, USA, Earth back locks. You fall in love with their ease of disassembly and reassembly. You start buying Native variants until you have to get the Sal Glesser special, the Native 5 fluted carbon fiber S90V variant. You put the blade and guts of at least one Native 5 LW into a set of AWT aluminum scales. Then you have to break that cycle...

I’ve been down this Native 5 rabbit hole you speak of! LOL. Love the Native 5 LW, love the AWT scales, and the fluted carbon fibre/s90v Native 5 is absolutely superb!

[Reject]

The Delica problem.

[Paul Ardbeg]

The Delica problem.

Holy moly a true Delica "junky"

[RustyIron]

I'm proud to have been convinced to make a wise financial decision by a random stranger on the Internet.

These two Delicas could have been a Native 5 FRN and a Chapparral

Can't wait to test my first serrated Spydercos...

Random? Stranger?
Don't worry, I've been called worse things than random and strange. This morning I put the K390 Police SE in my pocket. I had a giant box made of this newfangled super-cardboard. Now it's been dismembered into tiny slabs and the knife is still reasonably sharp. You're gonna like the new Delicas.

[Palestrina]

The Delica problem.



Everytime my wife says "Don't your think your collection is big enough?" I'll show her this picture and tell her I'm not even the worst

Random? Stranger?

I'll tell my wife a friend whom I trust since childhood recommended those knives to me

[Palestrina]

Random? Stranger?

I'll tell my wife a friend whom I trust since childhood recommended those knives to me

[Palestrina]

The Delica problem.

Everytime my wife says "Don't your think your collection is big enough?" I'll show her this picture and tell her I'm not even the worst

[Palestrina]

Sorry for the triple post, I should stay away from the forum on my phone.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to the Delica K390 SE, and especially the sharpening experience on the Sharpmaker.

[Wartstein]

....
Anyways, I'm looking forward to the Delica K390 SE, and especially the sharpening experience on the Sharpmaker.

Very much looking forward to learning how you'll like SE!

I don't know how exactly the Delica K390 serrations are done, but if they are of the "shallow, non-aggressive" type I'll bet you'll love their performance and will be surprised how well they work in tasks people who did not try for themselves would not associate with using SE for those.
(Said it before: To me personally a good spyderedge works better than PE in most folder tasks (I do) anyway).

[Palestrina]

They have arrived, and they seem legit.

Very much looking forward to learning how you'll like SE!

I don't know how exactly the Delica K390 serrations are done, but if they are of the "shallow, non-aggressive" type I'll bet you'll love their performance and will be surprised how well they work in tasks people who did not try for themselves would not associate with using SE for those.
(Said it before: To me personally a good spyderedge works better than PE in most folder tasks (I do) anyway).

I've kept every cardboard box and flyer for some time, and after roughly 30 minutes of cutting everything into the smallest possible pieces I'm really satisfied. Especially the performance through cardboard does not compare to PE blades - though the cuts are not as clean I'm way faster and it feels like I need to put in less force. It's a pleasure.

I'll test them for food prep over the next few days, and I think it might take some time before I need to get over the initial fear and start my first sharpening. I hope I don't ruin the blade.

[Wartstein]

Very much looking forward to learning how you'll like SE!

I don't know how exactly the Delica K390 serrations are done, but if they are of the "shallow, non-aggressive" type I'll bet you'll love their performance and will be surprised how well they work in tasks people who did not try for themselves would not associate with using SE for those.
(Said it before: To me personally a good spyderedge works better than PE in most folder tasks (I do) anyway).

I've kept every cardboard box and flyer for some time, and after roughly 30 minutes of cutting everything into the smallest possible pieces I'm really satisfied. Especially the performance through cardboard does not compare to PE blades - though the cuts are not as clean I'm way faster and it feels like I need to put in less force. It's a pleasure.

I'll test them for food prep over the next few days, and I think it might take some time before I need to get over the initial fear and start my first sharpening. I hope I don't ruin the blade.

Thanks for reporting back! (Why though did you actually get TWO K390 SE Delicas and not for example a Chap SE instead of one? (I figure cause SE K390 is disco´ed and will be gone soon, right?))

Glad you found/find out how good SE really is!

- And yes, it would be silly to deny that if the cleanest cut is desired PE beats SE (though one can do very clean cuts with SE when utilizing just a single one of the scallops and kind of pushes it through material).

- Food prep:
Works great for me with SE, especially of course with stuff like bread or tomatoes, where the "points" of the serrated blade break the surface before the real cutting starts.
Sure, there is a reason that Chefs prefer PE in their high end kitchen knives - when comparing general EDC folders in food prep though, the steeper SE chisel grind comes into play and also the fact that SE does not loose nearly as much performance as PE does when both edges start to get duller.
What SE does do when cutting food: A littler "steering", does not bother me though.

- What you´d perhaps also want to try
+ Whittling: SE bites better/deeper into wood than PE (due to the SE chisel grind I guess)
+ Feather sticks / shavings: Finer and catch a spark better in my experience when done with SE than with PE

[Palestrina]

Why though did you actually get TWO K390 SE Delicas and not for example a Chap SE instead of one? (I figure cause SE K390 is disco´ed and will be gone soon, right?))

Right

See, I'm technically a knife collector, but it has boiled down to just a few models I really enjoy, and the fact that I use and carry my knives all the time leads to the idea that it's better to always have a backup if I really like a model. Since I'm already familiar with the Delica, as well as K390 steel (which to me is the logical evolution from my trusted C75 and 1095 knives) I figured I'll get both of the remaining SEs I found.

And yes, as stated in my comment a few days ago, the initial thought after placing the order has been "This could have been a Native 5 AND a Chaparral", as well as a new experience and a more diverse collection. I'm mostly looking for knives in the 3 to 3,5 inch range, and the Delica felt so natural to use I rarely carry the absolutely fantastic Lil' Native and the easy to use Urban.

My food prep will be mostly sausages, tomatoes and cheese (which will always stick to the blade anyways). So I won't mind if the cut is not as clean, the food won't be presented at a christmas dinner table anyways.

I haven't whittled wood or made feather sticks in my adult life, though I'm an avid hiker. I plan all my trips from hut to hut, so I never had to make fire - compared to my childhood, where for some reason we always HAD to make fire to survive in the backyard in August or so (back then with a classic "Trattenbacher Feitel" - I'm sure you know this one).

Looking at the blade I'm a little worried on how this really thin edge will hold up, it really looks fragile compared to the serrations on a regular Victorinox kitchen knife.

The one thing that really caught my attention is the Chaparral Slipit, it's like a modern traditional. If only they would have used K390 - a patina on handle AND blade would make this knife really awesome in my eyes. But we'll see what the future brings, seems like most people prefer rustproof steels - which obviously makes sense.

I've read quite some threads on SE blades here, and quite a lot of people seem to reprofile it right before they use it the first time, what are your opinions on this idea?

[cabfrank]

I'd say use it as is until and if it needs reprofiling. You already know it cuts very well as is. Also, don't worry about sharpening it (you have a Sharpmaker right)? Just go slow and use very light pressure. You won't ruin it, but you will make it better. Enjoy!

[Wartstein]

Why though did you actually get TWO K390 SE Delicas and not for example a Chap SE instead of one? (I figure cause SE K390 is disco´ed and will be gone soon, right?))

Right

See, I'm technically a knife collector, but it has boiled down to just a few models I really enjoy, and the fact that I use and carry my knives all the time leads to the idea that it's better to always have a backup if I really like a model. Since I'm already familiar with the Delica, as well as K390 steel (which to me is the logical evolution from my trusted C75 and 1095 knives) I figured I'll get both of the remaining SEs I found.

And yes, as stated in my comment a few days ago, the initial thought after placing the order has been "This could have been a Native 5 AND a Chaparral", as well as a new experience and a more diverse collection. I'm mostly looking for knives in the 3 to 3,5 inch range, and the Delica felt so natural to use I rarely carry the absolutely fantastic Lil' Native and the easy to use Urban.

My food prep will be mostly sausages, tomatoes and cheese (which will always stick to the blade anyways). So I won't mind if the cut is not as clean, the food won't be presented at a christmas dinner table anyways.

I haven't whittled wood or made feather sticks in my adult life, though I'm an avid hiker. I plan all my trips from hut to hut, so I never had to make fire - compared to my childhood, where for some reason we always HAD to make fire to survive in the backyard in August or so (back then with a classic "Trattenbacher Feitel" - I'm sure you know this one).

Looking at the blade I'm a little worried on how this really thin edge will hold up, it really looks fragile compared to the serrations on a regular Victorinox kitchen knife.

The one thing that really caught my attention is the Chaparral Slipit, it's like a modern traditional. If only they would have used K390 - a patina on handle AND blade would make this knife really awesome in my eyes. But we'll see what the future brings, seems like most people prefer rustproof steels - which obviously makes sense.

I've read quite some threads on SE blades here, and quite a lot of people seem to reprofile it right before they use it the first time, what are your opinions on this idea?

- "Backup":

Certainly not a bad idea with the SE K390 Delica! You always can get a Native and/or Chap later, while the K390 SEs will be gone for good soon...

- "Food prep with SE Spydies"

-What I said was actually "steering" not "sticking" - you might notice that due to the chisel grind the blade will have a slight tendency to move/shift to one side when you cut trough thicker, soft matter. Nothing that bothers me personally at all though.
- For me when directly comparing the same Spyderco model in PE and SE, the latter works better for food prep, especially as said with stuff like tomatoes or bread (in dedicated kitchen knives I am sure PE will be the better choice though most of the times!)

- Whittling/feathersticks with SE

Well, you could still go out and just compare the PE Delica to the SE Delica in making a notch in a random stick. I think you will find that the SE blade cuts deeper into the wood and makes the work quicker and easier (mostly due to the steeper chisel grind)
Sure, it will not leave a surface as clean and smooth as the PE blade, but this does not matter in most outdoor use (but sure would in fine carving)

- "Trattenbacher Feitel"

Man,being an Austrian, sure I had quite some of those when I was a boy!
I once started a thread about our traditional Austrian folder, see here, perhaps you´d like to post there too: viewtopic.php?p=1293139#p1293139
Being into traditional knives you might like the thread anyway, cause others shared theirs too (and I also the "Hirschfaenger", see here viewtopic.php?p=1410790#p1410790)

- "Worried about the thin SE edge"

Don´t be! It can take a lot!
I really beat on my SE knives (also literally in lighter/smaller batoning for making kindling) - no problems so far.
Here is a post by "Mr. SE" David/Evil D about "torturing" his Caribbean SE you might find interesting/reassuring: viewtopic.php?p=1366492#p1366492

Also, I may quote Michael Janich from the very interesting SE article (August Spyderco Byte https://mailchi.mp/spyderco/spyderco-by ... cycb2mvhza)

"However, the unique structure of serration teeth and, very importantly, the ridges between them, actually reinforces the structural strength of the edge. Despite its thinner edge geometry, it remains strong. "

- "Chaparral slipit"

Must be a cool folder, and as said with practically the same cutting edge as a Native 5, but in a thinner, slicier blade and smaller, but to me equipped with better ergos package.
The thing to me though is: ONE of the unique, great features of the Chap exactly IS its amazing backlock with its internal stop pin.. so I´d recommend getting the backlock version...
Also, for what I use the Chap, I do want a lock. It is my "little hard use outdoor claw" (you´d be surprised what this thin XHP blade can take! Really NOT just a "gents knife")

- "Reprofiling SE before first use"

I think this is less about actual reprofling, but more about rounding off the serrations through sharpening processes, which makes the performance only better.
I personally never did this "before first use" - happens anyway over time when using and sharpening the knife.
As for actual reprofiling: If an SE Spydie I get is closer to 20 degree than to 15, I casually and occasionally use my Sharpmaker (with CBN rods!) to bring it to 15 degrees eventually. Just cause the performance gets even better and in my experience SE can take that more acute angle no problem.

[Mrj]

Then you start to mod and create versions that match your favorite exclusives because the distributors don’t make it. My favorite collection is the St Nicks exclusives. So naturally I needed a frn delica to go with the G10 version.

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Then you start to mod and create versions that match you favorite exclusives because the distributors don’t make it. My favorite collection is the St Nicks exclusives. So naturally I needed a frn delica to go with the G10 version.

Dope!