I had enough of Seki ''hiccups''

[elena86]

Hi Marius,

I'm sorry for your disappointment. I could go into a deep explanation of how serration wheels are formed (no two edges exactly the same) or how K390 has it's own grinding issues (Vanadium carbides) or how long it took to be able to get this maker just to work with K390 for us (years). I could go into how many tens of thousands of knives that this maker makes for us each month with a high degree of quality with very obstinate materials that would be difficult to find from any comparable maker.

But I won't. The best that I can do is apologize for your disappointment and make the offer, that you can send the knife back to me in Colorado and I will refund your purchase price and the cost of shipping.

Thanx to those that came to my defense. Appreciate.

sal

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"Did my music please you? NO, the words you sang were wrong".

Dear Mr. Glesser. My thread was not about trying to get my money back. I never did. Money means nothing to me. Believe it or not I just wanted to help improving some things for the sake of the brand. Too many times I had quality issues(in my perception) with the Seki spydies over the years but it seems I am just the unlucky and weird one, and I also lack the general image.So be it. It just happens that the C07S is the iconic Spyderco knife that caught me into the spydervortex and it means alot to me and I was quite upset when I noticed those “grooves” on a VG10(not K390) edge. How stupid of me and I mean it. I apologize and I hope you know how much I appreciate you as a man and as a knife designer and guru.One of the few regrets in my life is that I never had the chance to meet you in person and to shake your hand. I am a huge Spyderco fan and I collect, carry and use your knives for many years now. I really think that Spyderco is doing a terrific job in the knife industry and I allways talk higly of the Spyderco products outside this forum. Now I regret starting the topic, but never imagined…this. I am so sad and it breaks my heart to see that you took my post so personal. I learned my lesson and from now on I shall just read and keep quiet. Me and “my big mouth”. That being said I shall keep buying more new C07S until I get one with a “clean” edge and keep praying for a SPY27 C07S sprint dressed in tuffram. God bless you Sal.

[JRinFL]

Relevant quote applicable to this thread; copy/pasted from the Mule Team Discussion thread "Handle and tang not flush?". All credit to bobartig and JRinFL:

quote=JRinFL post_id=1722487 time=1686328817 user_id=26398]

If you grab like 4 mules and pin them together with 3/16" chicago bolts, you will see there's enough variance that when you run your finger nail over them, it catches on some. It's like 1/3 of a millimeter here or there. The solution is to have the scales shy by ~1.5mm so the variances don't really show. Functionally there's no real difference.

In terms of manufacturing slop, the question in manufacturing is: "how much do you want to pay?" Can Spydero make all Mules identical to within 1/1000 of an inch? Probably. Do you wan them to cost $3000 each? Probably not. So when you think about how much more precise you would like their global mfring pipelines to be, you should always consider that lock-step with how much more you are willing to pay.

This is a very important sentence, so I highlighted it. I try to be cognizant that my requests can often lead to a higher price if implemented.

[/quote]

I feel I need to point out that our quotes were originally in a thread about the variations in Mule Team handle profiles. A different kettle of fish. Mules are discounted and are essentially only partially finished products. The Seki knives are meant to be fully finished premium cutting tools. At one point they possessed great finishing and great performance, now they have only the latter, in many cases. Just my opinion, of course. While I might be ok with the compromise, I don’t insist others be ok with it.

Sal, is it possible to estimate how much more Seki knives would cost if they were finished to the same level as Taiwan or US made knives? I don’t know if that is even a fair question ask, but I’m sure some others are thinking it.

[weeping minora]

Relevant quote applicable to this thread; copy/pasted from the Mule Team Discussion thread "Handle and tang not flush?". All credit to bobartig and JRinFL:

quote=JRinFL post_id=1722487 time=1686328817 user_id=26398]

If you grab like 4 mules and pin them together with 3/16" chicago bolts, you will see there's enough variance that when you run your finger nail over them, it catches on some. It's like 1/3 of a millimeter here or there. The solution is to have the scales shy by ~1.5mm so the variances don't really show. Functionally there's no real difference.

In terms of manufacturing slop, the question in manufacturing is: "how much do you want to pay?" Can Spydero make all Mules identical to within 1/1000 of an inch? Probably. Do you wan them to cost $3000 each? Probably not. So when you think about how much more precise you would like their global mfring pipelines to be, you should always consider that lock-step with how much more you are willing to pay.

This is a very important sentence, so I highlighted it. I try to be cognizant that my requests can often lead to a higher price if implemented.

I feel I need to point out that our quotes were originally in a thread about the variations in Mule Team handle profiles. A different kettle of fish. Mules are discounted and are essentially only partially finished products. The Seki knives are meant to be fully finished premium cutting tools. At one point they possessed great finishing and great performance, now they have only the latter, in many cases. Just my opinion, of course. While I might be ok with the compromise, I don’t insist others be ok with it.

Sal, is it possible to estimate how much more Seki knives would cost if they were finished to the same level as Taiwan or US made knives? I don’t know if that is even a fair question ask, but I’m sure some others are thinking it.
[/quote]

My apologies if you feel I stepped out of line by quoting your conversation. I gave credit to you, bobartig and the thread itself in my post, taking no missteps to reiterate or misconstrue the information or context within the original thread/comment. I only re-posted it here because of the highlighted text, which I took as a general statement, rather than solely in regards to the Mule Team Project. Your conversation was literally less than an hour old when I read this thread and it was (IMO) a perfect comment, that also applied here.

[JRinFL]

My apologies if you feel I stepped out of line by quoting your conversation. I gave credit to you, bobartig and the thread itself in my post, taking no missteps to reiterate or misconstrue the information or context within the original thread/comment. I only re-posted it here because of the highlighted text, which I took as a general statement, rather than solely in regards to the Mule Team Project. Your conversation was literally less than an hour old when I read this thread and it was (IMO) a perfect comment, that also applied here.

No worries and no foul. I just wanted to add the context for the original quote. It does makes sense in this context as well, hence my question for Sal. However, as some have pointed out, we are already paying a relatively high price for Seki knives.

[sal]

Hi Marius,

You know I respect you, your knowledge and I appreciate that you are and have been a good customer for a long time. We've had many communications across the years. I know that many of our customers want and even expect a "perfect" knife. I don't fault that. We always try to provide that. Sometimes it's just not possible to just put out perfect knives with the materials and designs that we produce, especially since our numbers could exceed 20,000 knives per month.

I don't want to stop the complaints, regardless of how small because without that feedback, it becomes difficult to know and provide what our customers want. In this particular case, to complain to the maker over one model that isn't perfect, I'm afraid they would perceive as an insult considering all that they do and do well. So my offer was my only available recourse to try to please you as a customer.

No need to apologize or refrain from communication. I/We value your comments and appreciate that you bother to share your thoughts and concern.

I know our knives are expensive. We operate on relatively fixed margins and only make enough profit to be able to run our business. We at Spyderco believe that, "To charge as much as the market will bare, is to bite the hand that feeds you". I must admit, that on some models, we make too little.

best,

sal

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"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

[dsvirsky]

Marius,

My apologies. I mistakenly assumed that was a K390 Police 4.

[Fireman]

[ABX2011]

I can understand the disappointment but Seki quality has not kept up (to put it nicely) with other manufacturing hubs for a long, long time. You gotta to lower your expectations. Or buy something else.

[Fireman]

Here is a tip. Buy at a local knife shop so you can inspect the knife before you buy.

[nerdlock]

Here is a tip. Buy at a local knife shop so you can inspect the knife before you buy.

OP is someplace in Europe, which I assume probably doesn't have the same ubiquitous number of knife shops like in the US, let alone shops that sell Spyderco, and if they even sell Spyderco, the exact type of knife that the OP wanted.

[JRinFL]

Here is a tip. Buy at a local knife shop so you can inspect the knife before you buy.

Really? My local dealer has had only a single Orange rescue in stock for close to a decade. Most Spyderco customers don’t have a stocking dealer anywhere close. The situation is even worse for Spyderco fans overseas.

[Airlsee]

Here is a tip. Buy at a local knife shop so you can inspect the knife before you buy.

Just to add...this is an ignorant comment. Even living in DFW which has 8 million people in the heart of North Texas, there are only 2 stores that keep a large stock of Spyderco knives. To pile on even further, I don't really appreciate much that you bring to this forum. Just my two cents.

[Fireman]

Well, a flight to golden Colorado on seconds sale day should more than make up for the cost of the flight. It’s like being in heaven but you better bring a lot of cash.

[Airlsee]

Are you daft? Or just a troll?

[Fireman]

Here is a tip. Buy at a local knife shop so you can inspect the knife before you buy.

Just to add...this is an ignorant comment. Even living in DFW which has 8 million people in the heart of North Texas, there are only 2 stores that keep a large stock of Spyderco knives. To pile on even further, I don't really appreciate much that you bring to this forum. Just my two cents.

Most of my knives have been purchased at local dealers minus the rare ones I order on the inter webs.

[Airlsee]

So just ignorant.

[Fireman]

Are you daft? Or just a troll?

I offered up tips that I have done myself in good faith. I have been to Golden and have gotten seconds and ones that people got for me as well from seconds.

[Fireman]

So just ignorant.

I guess I am ignorant with knives I love and have traveled to get them. Always try to be kind to people you don’t know.

[Airlsee]

The OP doesn't have that luxury, nor do 98% of the other forumites, you speak from a place of singularity. We do not all live your existence. I am happy for you, but do not place your experience on others.

[Airlsee]

I wish you nothing but the best, honestly, but I feel you were very inconsiderate towards people who do not have the ability to just hop on down to their local shop and inspect all knives before buying, therefore "ignorant". I value you as a forum member, but feel that you approach many threads from a singular viewpoint.

Best