The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

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zuludelta
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The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#1

Post by zuludelta »

In July of 2022, I was contacted by Sal Glesser and asked if I would be interested in trying out an early production specimen of the upcoming Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight folding knife. His exact words were, “I'd like you to beat the **** out of it.” I would not be able to write about the knife on these forums (or elsewhere) until its official public reveal a few months down the line, of course, but as soon as that condition was met, I would be able speak freely about it. With the release of the Reveal 11 catalogue earlier this week, I am now able to share my thoughts on the knife with the forum and the general public.
20220818_070545.jpg
Before anything else, a disclaimer: while the knife was provided for free, I tried not to let that fact influence my evaluation of its build and capabilities. And while I have preexisting preferences and biases in folding knives (like everybody else reading this), I endeavoured to keep them from unduly shading my opinion of the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight one way or another. I've written about my experiences—both good and not-so-good—with the original, recently discontinued G10-handled Lil' Temperance 3 (model no. C69G3) before, and I recommend reading the relevant thread for context before further reading this review, as I will make a lot of comparisons between the Lightweight and the original.

For those unfamiliar with the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight and its predecessors, here is a very abbreviated summary of the design's history, taken from the product copy in the Reveal 11 catalogue:
“The original Lil' Temperance was designed by Spyderco co-founder Sal Glesser as a compact yet heavy-duty folding knife suitable for defensive use. Over the years, Sal has refined the design several times, emphasizing its utilitarian function without compromising its ****-for-stout spirit. The latest evolution of this venerable design transcends previous versions by replacing their traditional G10 handle scales with injection-molded fiberglass-reinforced nylon (FRN).”
I received the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight in Plain Edge configuration (model no. C69PBK3) at the start of August, and I've been using it almost exclusively since then as my primary work, everyday carry, and outdoors folder. In terms of blade length (74.0 mm/2.91”), cutting edge length (72.0 mm/2.83”), blade thickness (4.00 mm/0.157”), and overall length (182 mm/7.17”), it is within a millimetre or two of the original G10 version. The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight is nominally lighter than its G10 older brother (108 g/3.81 oz. vs 113 g/3.98 oz.) but this difference is barely perceptible in hand and in use. The most palpably significant distinction between the two as far as physical dimensions is in the handle thickness: The Lightweight's handle is about 13.5 mm/0.531” thick compared to the original's 11.0 mm/0.433”. That may not sound like much, but it is very apparent when gripping the knife tightly and bearing down while slicing through thick, dense, or hard materials; or when gripping the knife for extended periods of time, such as when whittling or carving wood. The Lightweight's handle is more comfortable to use in these cases, though it is not as noticeable when wearing work gloves.
Lil' Temperance 3 LW & the Lil' Temperance 3
Lil' Temperance 3 LW & the Lil' Temperance 3
Further highlighting this difference in handle comfort is the contouring on the Lightweight's handle scales. Because the Lightweight's fibreglass-reinforced nylon (FRN) handle scales are injection-moulded, their edges and scallops are more rounded and smoother overall than the machined equivalents in the original's more premium G10 scales. To enhance grip security, the Lightweight's handle scales are covered in the same bi-directional texture pattern found in Spyderco's other FRN-handled Seki City-produced folders like the Endura 4, Delica 4, Dragonfly 2, Endela, and Stretch 2.
20220930_073816.jpg
As in every prior version of the Li'l Temperance, the Lightweight has an indexing divot on both handle scales to facilitate rapid grip transitions in both workaday tasks and defensive manoeuvres. The G10 version of the Lil' Temperance 3 has a bit of a reputation as a “pocket shredder” due in part to this feature because of how the belly of the pocket clip seats into the divot and increases the force of retention against the pants pocket material. The Lightweight carries over the same clip design and indexing divot, but it isn't that much more difficult to draw from the pocket than, say, an Endura 4. I am unsure as to why this is, but if I had to speculate, it might have to do with the divot surface on the Lightweight being smoother, since the spring tension on the clip seems to be unchanged from that of the original.

In my review of the original, G10-handled Lil' Temperance 3, I noted a couple of out-of-the-box detent and lockstick issues. As Sal explained in a thread reply, the Seki City partner involved in the production of the knife was still in the process of getting familiar with the engineering of the model's Compression Lock. Thankfully, those problems seem to have been addressed in the update to the Lightweight configuration. My sample of the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight had to have the pivot screw tightened to an impractical degree before being sent out in order to make it past the CBSA's tests for folding knife legality in Canada (big shout out to Gail at Spyderco for ensuring that it made it across the border), but once I'd adjusted the pivot to a more reasonable tightness, the action turned out great. I was able to dial it in to where it was possible to “Spydie-flick” the knife open easily without compromising blade centring or introducing side-to-side blade play. There is very good contact between the Compression Lock faces as well, and there is no grittiness or lockstick at all when actuating the knife's moving parts.
20220930_075133.jpg
Besides the differences in handle scale material, handle thickness, and fit and finish, the other big change in the transition from the Lil' Temperance 3 to the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight is in the blade steel. The original Lil' Temperance 3 came with a blade steel in CPM-S30V, a particle metallurgy high alloy stainless steel that can be considered the current baseline blade material for a modern, premium folding knife. In what many may perceive as a downgrade, the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight is appointed with a blade made from VG-10—an older, ingot stainless steel. In my experience, a properly heat-treated and ground VG-10 blade is sufficient for a work folder, but it is also an indisputable fact that, with variables such as blade geometry and Rockwell hardness being equal, its chemistry does lend it measurably less edge retention than CPM-S30V (for a more detailed comparison of CPM-S30V, VG-10, and many other steels used in knives, I highly recommend this article by metallurgist Dr. Larrin Thomas).

Would I have preferred that the Lightweight had kept the original's CPM-S30V blade? Yes, but keep in mind that my use of a folding knife at the warehouse where I work involves cutting large amounts of 250 lb.–test corrugated cardboard and polyester and polypropylene pallet straps, usage that perhaps overly emphasizes the relative importance of edge retention. I imagine that for most other people's uses for a folding knife, VG-10 is perfectly fine.

There is one clear advantage to the Lightweight's shift to VG-10 steel, though, and it is in its ease of sharpening, re-profiling, and edge repair. In one notable incident, I accidentally struck the Lightweight's edge against a steel load-bearing beam. The blade came away with two 6 mm/0.25” flat spots and there was so much force behind the striking motion that I believe any blade of equivalent size, geometry, and Rockwell hardness would have sustained a comparable degree of damage, regardless of its steel composition.
Close-up of the damaged edge
Close-up of the damaged edge
I was able to fully re-profile the blade and drop its point slightly to maintain the original sweeping profile in under an hour using a combination of 320 grit and 600 grit diamond plates and the CBN and medium ceramic rods mounted on a Sharpmaker. From experience, I know that a CPM-S30V blade with analogous damage would have taken significantly longer to repair.
Close-up of the repaired edge
Close-up of the repaired edge
Thus far, I have been discussing the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight in terms of how it compares to the Lil' Temperance 3. I am confident in saying that those who already like the Lil' Temperance 3 will in all likelihood also like the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: The latter retains everything good about the former whilst improving on handle comfort, build quality, and overall fit and finish, with the only drawback being the change in blade steel from CPM-S30V to VG-10—and even then, it can be argued that there are situations where VG-10's ease of sharpening is more practically advantageous than CPM-S30V's superior edge retention.

But is there something in the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight that will appeal to users who have never used the Lil' Temperance 3 or its predecessors? I think so. The original Lil' Temperance in CPM-440V (model no. C69GP) hit retail in 2001 and this latest version not only embodies 20 years of Sal Glesser's continuous iteration and refinement of the model, but it also serves as a haptic compendium of ergonomic elements from some of the best knives Spyderco has produced over the last two decades.

The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight's subtle but effective thumb ramp is sure to be appreciated by fans of the Sage and Chaparral, while the refined profile of the hand-filling handle stirs tactile memories of the Enuff, Alcyone, and RockJumper. For those in the market for a folding knife that can serve as a dedicated close quarters defensive implement in the vein of Michael Janich's Yojimbo 2, it offers a similar Martial Blades Concepts (MBC)-rated design lineage with the additional ability to be carried in facilities and territories with prohibitions against knives with blades longer than 76 mm/3.0”. And for those who are more interested in a folder's utilitarian potential, the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight is a formidable “hard use” cutting tool with virtually the same cutting edge length as the much larger and heavier Manix 2 in a form factor similar to that of the Para 3.
Lil' Temperance 3 LW beside the Enuff Drop-Point
Lil' Temperance 3 LW beside the Enuff Drop-Point
All this capability does come at a premium. The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight has a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of US$252.00, which projects to a minimum advertised price (MAP) of US$176.40 or roughly C$245.00. That is quite a bit of money to shell out in 2022 for a knife with a VG-10 blade and FRN handle scales, even when accounting for the past several months' dramatic rise in inflation and the higher cost of manufacturing in Japan. To put things into perspective, the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight resides in the same price range as the Para Military 2 and the Native 5, two American-made knives that sport more advanced particle metallurgy steels (CPM-S45VN and CPM-S30V, respectively) and machined G10 handle scales. That being said, the pricing for the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight is not wildly out of line for a Seki City Spyderco given its materials and engineering: the last Compression Lock-equipped VG-10 folder to come out of Seki City—the Paul Alexander-designed Ouroboros—had an eye-watering MSRP of US$289.95, and this was back in 2016. Ultimately, I can't knock the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight too much for its MSRP. It is not an outstanding value to be sure, but I think it is priced fairly given the circumstances of its manufacture.

So what is my opinion of the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight after two months of extensive use? I think it fulfills Sal Glesser's intent to update the original Lil' Temperance from “a compact yet heavy-duty folding knife suitable for defensive use” to a contemporary design that also emphasizes “utilitarian function without compromising its ****-for-stout spirit.” A straightforward cutting tool that far, far exceeds the relative modesty of its materials with its top-drawer ergonomics, robust construction, and remarkable versatility, I especially recommend the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight to those looking for an efficiently-sized “hard use” work folder or an alternative to the Yojimbo 2.
Lil' Temperance 3 LW & the Yojimbo 2
Lil' Temperance 3 LW & the Yojimbo 2
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Enjoyed this post? Here are my other knife reviews and impressions: Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight, Schempp Rock, Yojimbo 2, Karahawk, Lil' Temperance 3, Introvert
Last edited by zuludelta on Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#2

Post by Enactive »

Nice review and very cool and well-deserved opportunity for you.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#3

Post by zuludelta »

Enactive wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:41 pm
Nice review and very cool and well-deserved opportunity for you.
Thanks!
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#4

Post by VooDooChild »

I really liked the lil temp 3 clip, glad to see they kept it.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#5

Post by kennethsime »

Very thoughtful review, Zulu - thanks very much.

I'll admit, the unique appeal of the Lil' Temperance is still somewhat of a mystery to me - but I think a good part of that may be because I've never held one. From pictures alone, it looks like a heck of a lot of handle with not much blade - and I do see how that might come in useful for MBC.

For those who have held one: is it kind of like a mini Shaman? Zulu, your review makes it sound like a very comfortable knife in hand.

I ask because the Shaman is a knife that I certainly do appreciate, even though one could argue that it's just a somewhat portly PM2.
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Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#6

Post by Cl1ff »

Yep, another great analysis of a knife!
I really appreciate thoughtful reviews like this.

I think most concerns about edge retention vs ease of sharpening are completely different when serrations are considered as well. And this knife is also being offered in full SpyderEdge.
Serrated VG10 has worked impressively well for me and I highly doubt that s30v would offer much advantage in that configuration.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive revi

#7

Post by apollo »

Very nice review. What was to be expected since the original versions i have are one of the best designs spyderco ever made. But i will not buy this LW version even though i would love to have it.

Now the following will maybe sound negative or some will call it salty but it is written to inspire Spyderco to improve for the future. So no hard feelings or what so ever.

Like its predecessor its pricing of US$252 MSRP will result in a price of over 300 euro in Europe.
And 300 euro+ for an frn knife is for a normal person with a normal pay check as me not tolerable or even explainable to my family no matter the Maker , Designer , Brand , steel , …

Wish they would finally change the system a bit namely keep the Map the same and lower the msrp in this case to 210$ or so. It would be a win for everyone no changes to the US and more sales around the globe is equal or more income for spyderco.

So good luck guys hope you members on the continent of America will enjoy this one.
And to Spyderco i will always love this brand and this forum and its members just please keep on trying solving this massive problem i know all the work you already done and i can only be positive about it. So i hope i will not be looked at in anger for keeping to give improving idea’s for the future.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#8

Post by Michal O »

So it's still not drop shut like PM2?

I had to remove two of four washers in my G10 version to make it smooth without blade play and big gaps between stop pin and scale. But to close it in one take I need still rapid wirst movement.
kennethsime wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:06 pm
Very thoughtful review, Zulu - thanks very much.

I'll admit, the unique appeal of the Lil' Temperance is still somewhat of a mystery to me - but I think a good part of that may be because I've never held one. From pictures alone, it looks like a heck of a lot of handle with not much blade - and I do see how that might come in useful for MBC.

For those who have held one: is it kind of like a mini Shaman? Zulu, your review makes it sound like a very comfortable knife in hand.

I ask because the Shaman is a knife that I certainly do appreciate, even though one could argue that it's just a somewhat portly PM2.
It's more like Tenacious with shorter blade and CL. Shaman has better action, but feels different. Is more blade heavy than LT3, handle is slippery when wet. LT3 gives you solid feel on lock, which is thicker, also very comfortable grip, blade looks like it can survive some beating in self defense situation. It's like tip of the sword. Give you confidence but of course you need skill to use it in such manner. Other than that it's handy tool for edc. Main minuses are the high price and action inferior compared to Golden or Taichung models.

Image

Image

As you can see, cutting edge comparison isn't that bad for LT3

Image
Lock is solid and early compared to any CL from USA or Taiwan. Shaman has beefier stock and tip.

Image
Last edited by Michal O on Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Current collection: Lil Temperance G10, Shaman, Lil Native, Massad Ayoob cruwear, Smock, Street Beat, Street Bowie, Para 3, PM2 purple G10 cruwear, Canis, Rhino, Endura 4 K390, Watu, Kapara, Amalgam, Sliverax, Police 4 se K390, Police 4 pe K390, Khukuri, Barong, Ulize.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#9

Post by Jim Malone »

I was really looking forward to it. I was planning on buying it as my only new model Spyderco but the MSRP is way too high. I found it for 375€ which is 20% of the average monthly income in Europe. I can't pay this much for a pocket knife https://www.carabinasypistolas.com/nl/s ... zakmes.php
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#10

Post by apollo »

Jim Malone wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:41 am
I was really looking forward to it. I was planning on buying it as my only new model Spyderco but the MSRP is way too high. I found it for 375€ which is 20% of the average monthly income in Europe. I can't pay this much for a pocket knife https://www.carabinasypistolas.com/nl/s ... zakmes.php
Jim the good news is the one you found is the previous model in g10. The Sad news is the frn will be not much cheaper.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#11

Post by Michal O »

Yeah, mine was on promotion and still expensive. Note that I'm from part of EU which isn't making money in € or £.
Current collection: Lil Temperance G10, Shaman, Lil Native, Massad Ayoob cruwear, Smock, Street Beat, Street Bowie, Para 3, PM2 purple G10 cruwear, Canis, Rhino, Endura 4 K390, Watu, Kapara, Amalgam, Sliverax, Police 4 se K390, Police 4 pe K390, Khukuri, Barong, Ulize.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#12

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

Great review and impressions added to the thread . This Summer I handled the G10 at a show , and it was nice at least get a feel if I would buy one in the future . Price was higher than retail so I passed . I hope it gets the attention the knife deserves . MG2
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#13

Post by Mr Blonde »

Thank you for the great review, I'll definitely try to add one or two to my collection!
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#14

Post by aicolainen »

Michal O wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:18 am

Image
Lock is solid and early compared to any CL from USA or Taiwan. Shaman has beefier stock and tip.
I have no experience with this model, but from this picture it looks like blade stock is similar between the LT3 and Shaman, but the LT3 seem to have stock removed all the way up to the spine, making the blade thinner than it’s blade stock. If that’s the case, it’s a very interesting detail indeed, and might help to explain the fairly high price, to some point.

Anyone have a measure of the actual spine thickness of the LT3?
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#15

Post by Michal O »

Stock in Shaman has 3,7 mm, tappers to 1,2 mm near tip, where bevels meet. LT3 has 4 mm stock, but it tappers on grind from ~3,5 mm to ~0,9 mm.
Current collection: Lil Temperance G10, Shaman, Lil Native, Massad Ayoob cruwear, Smock, Street Beat, Street Bowie, Para 3, PM2 purple G10 cruwear, Canis, Rhino, Endura 4 K390, Watu, Kapara, Amalgam, Sliverax, Police 4 se K390, Police 4 pe K390, Khukuri, Barong, Ulize.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#16

Post by wrdwrght »

Nice review, ZD. I have and love the G10 version.

Your review tempts me but I see no confirmation that this version is lined. Its greater weight gives me hope. Is it indeed lined?

EDIT TO ADD: Ah, the Reveal copy says nested liners. Missed that when I read it before. Given all else in the Reveal, I’ll be having an argument with my better judgment about getting this one. As it is, I’m still looking for a Lil’Temp1.
Last edited by wrdwrght on Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#17

Post by elena86 »

Thickness behind the edge please !
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#18

Post by kennethsime »

Michal O wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:18 am
It's more like Tenacious with shorter blade and CL. Shaman has better action, but feels different. Is more blade heavy than LT3, handle is slippery when wet. LT3 gives you solid feel on lock, which is thicker, also very comfortable grip, blade looks like it can survive some beating in self defense situation. It's like tip of the sword. Give you confidence but of course you need skill to use it in such manner. Other than that it's handy tool for edc. Main minuses are the high price and action inferior compared to Golden or Taichung models.
Thanks very much Michal, that was just the comparison I was looking for.

I don't think the LT3 will be next on my list, but I do better understand its niche at this point. Definitely a cool little knife!
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#19

Post by Michal O »

elena86 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:02 am
Thickness behind the edge please !
Mine has 0,6 mm, lightweight looks like it has same blade geometry, just different steel and handle material.
Current collection: Lil Temperance G10, Shaman, Lil Native, Massad Ayoob cruwear, Smock, Street Beat, Street Bowie, Para 3, PM2 purple G10 cruwear, Canis, Rhino, Endura 4 K390, Watu, Kapara, Amalgam, Sliverax, Police 4 se K390, Police 4 pe K390, Khukuri, Barong, Ulize.
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Re: The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

#20

Post by p_atrick »

To me the profile of this knife and the Leaf Jumper are very similar.
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