Chaparral... Liner Lock?

[Wartstein]

-

Correct, we do disagree.

I think it’s disrespectful to be constantly asking to make changes to someone else’s designs just to please personal preferences. Especially when that designers company already goes out of their way to satisfy their customers by offering so many different options to begin with. Even more so when the requested changes are for a knife series with a long established tradition of control.

The Centofante 3 is still in production and available. It’s basically everything you listed (1-3) minus the full flat grind. It’s an excellent alternative for someone looking for a knife larger than the Chaparral with 2mm blade stock. The notion that because it has a hollow grind it’s not performance oriented is silly to me. I’d suggest at least trying it as an alternative before asking Spyderco to make such a large investment by changing an existing knife.

Then of course there is the entire Sage series. So close in design to the Chaparral that it may as well be nicknamed the “bigger Chaparral.” The blade stock on the Sage is slightly thicker than the Chaparral but the Sage is still an amazing slicer!

Lastly, the Delica is getting some sort of “high performance” variation. The Delica has a history of being a platform for trying new things though. So we know there is at least the “high performance” Delica variation somewhere on the horizon but it almost seems natural that it would eventually evolve into an Endela and Endura variation as well.

It’s still my opinion to just let the Chaparral be.

Nick, I am honestly a bit confused:

You literally think it "is disrespectful" to - actually "respectfully " - utter the wish that a model could maybe come in a second steel choice?! I mean this is what happens here ALL the time - and concerning models that actually do come in 5 or more steels anyway already and additionally have features that can be had in other models anyway (UNLIKE it is the case with the Chap. The Chap IS more "unique" (neutrally meant) than many Spydercos and the only chance to get certain features).
And I really don´t know how it would hurt you if people got their LC200N Chap Salt for example...and how this would be born out of disrespect rather than appreciation and respect for Sals great design.

""Just" to please personal preferences"?!
If you really frame it this way what is happening on this forum we could almost close the whole thing, I guess.
Again: ALL the time: "I love this knife because of xxx: - it would be nice to have it in a rustproof version too - to get a grippier light weight version" - to see that lock type in another knife too - to crucarta it" and so on, and so on.
This actually DOES show respect and deep interest and that people actually use and try and tinker and are concerned with Sals/ Spydercos designs in theory and praxis.

And your framing, making this main content of this forum sound almost annoying and egoistic, is a bit confusing (not meant offensive!) when Sal utters again and again that he listens and values and considers the inputs here. And guys like Michael Janich literally say "however, like all things Spyderco, if you really want something, keep asking for it here" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87043&p=1437159#p1437159)
You really want to strip Spyderco of that feedback and the interest and deep involvement people show concerning their prroducts?
Also, keep in mind: It is not like there´d be no models/version that actually CAME to life cause people 1) asked for them and 2) could give good reasons for their wish (which I definitely can when it comes to the Chap). Just one example: The "Jazzlica" (=wharnie Delica) Jazz was proposing a long time ago.

You also seem to ignore in that case on what level of detail we "knife nuts" normally are discussing here.
To say "the Centofante is basically almost a larger Chap" is a bit like saying "the Shaman is a larger Sage 5 anyway".
To say the "Centofante is basically everything I listed" makes me think you perhaps did not fully consider WHAT I actually listed ? (btw.: I had and tried a Centofante 3 for about 1.5 years. As always :If i would have NOT, I would say so. Like "Just from what I read I think the Centofante is xxx" Great knife btw, but nothing like a Chap XL.).
1.) 2mm hollow grind is amazing, but really different to 2mm ffg (I eventually actually sold my Centofante cause of the hollow grind)
2.) The Chap has a really THIN carry with an extremely solid, "heavy" handle. The Centofante is quite the opposite: Light handle, regular thickness
3.) The Centofante backlock is not bad by any means, but really NOT the unique Chap kind of lock.

Same goes for the Sage: "Standard", a bit thicker blade (for the size); "Standard" a bit "bulkyier" carry (compared to the Chap!); and then: Find me a (backlock) Sage 4...

So: If one really loves, tries and uses knives, it becomes clear that the Chap has those defining unique features. Just one example: The Sage blade has 50% thicker stock than the Chaps... that´s not nothing (again, neutrally meant) on the detailled level we look at folders here

And you also seem not to take notice of what I also said in my previous post: "But, as said already somewhere else: I´d be perfectly happy with an "Endela thin edition" (conerning both blade and handle) or something along that lines too"
I am not "just" wishing for a specific model in a different steel and/or different size (again, many are that "disrespectful" all the time...) but rather generally uttering my personal opinion - coming from real experience - that more thinner bladed Spydies would be a good thing performancewise. Does not have to be the "Chap" at all, but right now it is pretty much the only choice.







I

[kobold]

1.) 2mm hollow grind is amazing, but really different to 2mm ffg (I eventually actually sold my Centofante cause of the hollow grind)

Hi Wartstein, I would like to know in more detail what was wrong with the Centofante HG in your opinion. If you wrote about it elsewhere already, the link would be appreciated also.
THX!

[Wartstein]

1.) 2mm hollow grind is amazing, but really different to 2mm ffg (I eventually actually sold my Centofante cause of the hollow grind)

Hi Wartstein, I would like to know in more detail what was wrong with the Centofante HG in your opinion. If you wrote about it elsewhere already, the link would be appreciated also.
THX!

Hi Kobold, there was a dedicated Centofante thread where I think i wrote a bit about it - can´t recall how long ago excatly though. And of course in several threads that were not explicitly about the Centofante (but grinds or whatever) (EDIT: HERE viewtopic.php?t=91437#p1585305 is that thread. But I personally did no contribute too much, just a bit as you can see)

- Nothing actually "wrong" with the Centofante sabre hollow grind! In some tasks such grinds even outperform ffg of course imo - especially when it comes to cutting matter with smaller diameter. And I still have sabre hollow Spydies (old SS Endura (the newer ones are "just" sabre), "old" FRN Native)
- It is just that overall I find ffg even more versatile, considering all possible folder tasks. I always say: If ffg would get a 10 out of 10 on the "folder grind versatility scale", sabre hollow for me would get around 8,5 to 9. "true" sabre just about 5 or so.
Actually these days I like hollow grinds MORE than back when I sold the Centofante
- I try to keep my collection (= array of users) as slim as possible - ideally not more than 10 Spydies at each point in time.
I really enjoyed the Centofante, but after about 1.5 years it still just did not make the cut - I found myself carrying the Stretch 1 way more often in roughly that cutting edge length range.

Again, what the Centofante is NOT (and this is neither good nor bad, just what it is): A "chapp-ish" knife.
2mm ffg of the Chap is different. The extremely slim footprint in pocket is different. The "heavy", solid feel and handle full of steel (liners, backspacer, lockbar) is different. The amazing backlock is different. the design with choil is different...
...in combining these features the Chap is "more unique" than most other Spydies.

[Wartstein]

1.) 2mm hollow grind is amazing, but really different to 2mm ffg (I eventually actually sold my Centofante cause of the hollow grind)

Hi Wartstein, I would like to know in more detail what was wrong with the Centofante HG in your opinion. If you wrote about it elsewhere already, the link would be appreciated also.
THX!

Added to my reply above:

Just out of interest (no offense! Just so I understand)
Why do you want me to explain here what I think about hollow grinds AND then also a link to where I did the same thing beforehand already?
My opinion on hollow grinds has only changed in that I came to appreciate them (even) more lately - ?

[Xformer]

I wonder why so many people put Shabazz on a pedestal??

Some think he's the one responsible for the legendary status of the Slysz Bowie, which is false.

That is actually not entirely false. I fully acknowledge he had no responsibility regarding the design and production of the Slysz Bowie but he is almost solely responsible for creating the demand and hype that knife sees today. Maybe not for you and many others on this forum who were aware of it before he claimed it was Spydercos best knife ever but for the general knife buying public he did a lot to put that knife on the map when he made those claims.

Nah.

Shabazz video on the Slysz Bowie were about 45k views, even lower back then (20k iirc). It's not enough to generate the amount of hype surrounding the Slysz Bowie and it's quite low for Youtube standard, even for knives. Shabazz audience is vastly US based and yet, even in my country where knives are forbidden to carry, everyone wants one and you regularly see 600€ offer for one. Nobody knows who Shabazz is here. Our biggest local knife youtuber never made a video on the Slysz Bowie and yet, here we are.

From what I can grasp, the Nirvana is slowly reaching the same status, because outside of this forum (and Shabazz opinion on it, ironically), people rave about the blade shape that is deemed to be one of the best shape around (see reddit knifeclub). The difference is you can buy a superior version from Rassenti. I don't even know if Marcin is still making his own version of the Slysz.

If you want a counterpoint : Shabazz is very cold on the Strider SNG and yet, his opinion didn't make a single dent on the knife high demand. The current market for SNG is even crazier than before.

Some people want to clinge hard to that belief because they can't grasp that the Slysz Bowie, which is far from your typical Spyderco knife (titanium, no thumb ramp, framelock, barely utilitarian, bowie blade...), can be as popular as it is organically. Words of mouth from individual to individual had the most impact.

I should make a thread about this soon.

[Mushroom]

-

Correct, we do disagree.

I think it’s disrespectful to be constantly asking to make changes to someone else’s designs just to please personal preferences. Especially when that designers company already goes out of their way to satisfy their customers by offering so many different options to begin with. Even more so when the requested changes are for a knife series with a long established tradition of control.

The Centofante 3 is still in production and available. It’s basically everything you listed (1-3) minus the full flat grind. It’s an excellent alternative for someone looking for a knife larger than the Chaparral with 2mm blade stock. The notion that because it has a hollow grind it’s not performance oriented is silly to me. I’d suggest at least trying it as an alternative before asking Spyderco to make such a large investment by changing an existing knife.

Then of course there is the entire Sage series. So close in design to the Chaparral that it may as well be nicknamed the “bigger Chaparral.” The blade stock on the Sage is slightly thicker than the Chaparral but the Sage is still an amazing slicer!

Lastly, the Delica is getting some sort of “high performance” variation. The Delica has a history of being a platform for trying new things though. So we know there is at least the “high performance” Delica variation somewhere on the horizon but it almost seems natural that it would eventually evolve into an Endela and Endura variation as well.

It’s still my opinion to just let the Chaparral be.

Nick, I am honestly a bit confused:

You literally think it "is disrespectful" to - actually "respectfully " - utter the wish that a model could maybe come in a second steel choice?! I mean this is what happens here ALL the time - and concerning models that actually do come in 5 or more steels anyway already and additionally have features that can be had in other models anyway (UNLIKE it is the case with the Chap. The Chap IS more "unique" (neutrally meant) than many Spydercos and the only chance to get certain features).
And I really don´t know how it would hurt you if people got their LC200N Chap Salt for example...and how this would be born out of disrespect rather than appreciation and respect for Sals great design.

""Just" to please personal preferences"?!
If you really frame it this way what is happening on this forum we could almost close the whole thing, I guess.
Again: ALL the time: "I love this knife because of xxx: - it would be nice to have it in a rustproof version too - to get a grippier light weight version" - to see that lock type in another knife too - to crucarta it" and so on, and so on.
This actually DOES show respect and deep interest and that people actually use and try and tinker and are concerned with Sals/ Spydercos designs in theory and praxis.

And your framing, making this main content of this forum sound almost annoying and egoistic, is a bit confusing (not meant offensive!) when Sal utters again and again that he listens and values and considers the inputs here. And guys like Michael Janich literally say "however, like all things Spyderco, if you really want something, keep asking for it here" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87043&p=1437159#p1437159)
You really want to strip Spyderco of that feedback and the interest and deep involvement people show concerning their prroducts?
Also, keep in mind: It is not like there´d be no models/version that actually CAME to life cause people 1) asked for them and 2) could give good reasons for their wish (which I definitely can when it comes to the Chap). Just one example: The "Jazzlica" (=wharnie Delica) Jazz was proposing a long time ago.

You also seem to ignore in that case on what level of detail we "knife nuts" normally are discussing here.
To say "the Centofante is basically almost a larger Chap" is a bit like saying "the Shaman is a larger Sage 5 anyway".
To say the "Centofante is basically everything I listed" makes me think you perhaps did not fully consider WHAT I actually listed ? (btw.: I had and tried a Centofante 3 for about 1.5 years. As always :If i would have NOT, I would say so. Like "Just from what I read I think the Centofante is xxx" Great knife btw, but nothing like a Chap XL.).
1.) 2mm hollow grind is amazing, but really different to 2mm ffg (I eventually actually sold my Centofante cause of the hollow grind)
2.) The Chap has a really THIN carry with an extremely solid, "heavy" handle. The Centofante is quite the opposite: Light handle, regular thickness
3.) The Centofante backlock is not bad by any means, but really NOT the unique Chap kind of lock.

Same goes for the Sage: "Standard", a bit thicker blade (for the size); "Standard" a bit "bulkyier" carry (compared to the Chap!); and then: Find me a (backlock) Sage 4...

So: If one really loves, tries and uses knives, it becomes clear that the Chap has those defining unique features. Just one example: The Sage blade has 50% thicker stock than the Chaps... that´s not nothing (again, neutrally meant) on the detailled level we look at folders here

And you also seem not to take notice of what I also said in my previous post: "But, as said already somewhere else: I´d be perfectly happy with an "Endela thin edition" (conerning both blade and handle) or something along that lines too"
I am not "just" wishing for a specific model in a different steel and/or different size (again, many are that "disrespectful" all the time...) but rather generally uttering my personal opinion - coming from real experience - that more thinner bladed Spydies would be a good thing performancewise. Does not have to be the "Chap" at all, but right now it is pretty much the only choice.







I

This is a lot to unpack. I’ll respond to fully when I have more time later.

I still think the Chaparral design should not be open to changes other than handle materiel.

Nah.

Shabazz video on the Slysz Bowie were about 45k views, even lower back then (20k iirc). It's not enough to generate the amount of hype surrounding the Slysz Bowie and it's quite low for Youtube standard, even for knives. Shabazz audience is vastly US based and yet, even in my country where knives are forbidden to carry, everyone wants one and you regularly see 600€ offer for one. Nobody knows who Shabazz is here. Our biggest local knife youtuber never made a video on the Slysz Bowie and yet, here we are.

From what I can grasp, the Nirvana is slowly reaching the same status, because outside of this forum (and Shabazz opinion on it, ironically), people rave about the blade shape that is deemed to be one of the best shape around (see reddit knifeclub). The difference is you can buy a superior version from Rassenti. I don't even know if Marcin is still making his own version of the Slysz.

If you want a counterpoint : Shabazz is very cold on the Strider SNG and yet, his opinion didn't make a single dent on the knife high demand. The current market for SNG is even crazier than before.

Some people want to clinge hard to that belief because they can't grasp that the Slysz Bowie, which is far from your typical Spyderco knife (titanium, no thumb ramp, framelock, barely utilitarian, bowie blade...), can be as popular as it is organically. Words of mouth from individual to individual had the most impact.

I should make a thread about this soon.

Nah. Like I said already, Shabazz did a lot more for creating the reputation that knife has than you want to give him credit for. It is what it is.

[kobold]

1.) 2mm hollow grind is amazing, but really different to 2mm ffg (I eventually actually sold my Centofante cause of the hollow grind)

Hi Wartstein, I would like to know in more detail what was wrong with the Centofante HG in your opinion. If you wrote about it elsewhere already, the link would be appreciated also.
THX!

Added to my reply above:

Just out of interest (no offense! Just so I understand)
Why do you want me to explain here what I think about hollow grinds AND then also a link to where I did the same thing beforehand already?
My opinion on hollow grinds has only changed in that I came to appreciate them (even) more lately - ?

b/c I wanted you to send a link in case you don't feel like typing out the same stuff again.
edit: to be precise I wanted to know why you sold the Centofante.

[jwbnyc]

The Chapparal FRN is the culmination of everything Sal Glesser knows about designing and making a backlock knife imo.

It’s also the most bang for buck knife in the entire Spyderco line up, again, imo.

I don’t think it needs any improvements, but, then; I already have a couple, so; I don’t suppose my opinion counts for much, as far as it might speak to what other people would like to see it become.

Essentially, the Chap is such a refined design, any changes would amount to a new knife, and that’s fine: as long as the original sticks around.

[Wartstein]

-

This is a lot to unpack. I’ll respond to fully when I have more time later.

I still think the Chaparral design should not be open to changes other than handle materiel.

Hey Nick,

sorry for the late reply, I was up in the mountains for several days.

/ I am certainly interested in your opinions and thoughts, cause I always found them very thought through and valid, regardless if I happen to agree or disagree.
Nevertheless: No need to respond here if you don´t feel like it, I guess it´s a fine option too if we just agree on disagreeing on this one.

Generally you touch an interesting (for me at least... ) point concerning motivations behind proposals or wishes and the discussion culture on this forum. And the following is not meant as a direct response to that, but just "inspired" by it:

Your wording (quote) "I think it’s disrespectful to be constantly asking to make changes to someone else’s designs just to please personal preferences." made me think about that "just to please personal preferences" thing, since there are quite some facetes to it:

- There are cases were for example one really just wants a certain model in a different steel cause they want to collect that model in various steels. Perhaps don´t even use the knife. Fine by me, but clearly only "personal preference" and rather "selfish"

- Then there certainly are cases were one loves a models performance, uses it for certain tasks, and wishes for a change that could make the knife perform even better - out of "selfish", but practical reasons and ALSO because other folks who might use knives similarily would profit too. I guess one example would be that "Jazzlica" - as far as I know fellow forum member Jazz used a Delica in a warehouse setting, liked the design, ergos, performance..., but thought it would work even better for him (and potentially most "warehouse guys") with a wharnie blade. So he advocated for that and eventually a wharnie Delica came to life.
This is basically what I (and others) have in mind with a Chap XL (or any other, a bit larger, really thin bladed and thin handled Spydie, regardless if it was an "Endela thin edition" or a totally newly designed model): I love the particular and unique Chap features, but think they would work even better in a larger size, purely practically speaking. And I would certainly "selfishly" get such a knife myself, but at least much am convinced that many others would profit from the performance of such a model as an EDC

- Third case: Let´s take the Chap again as an example: I used and abused and tested this design beyond what many people think it is intended for ("just" a light duty gents folder) - I was surprised how tough and useful it is, how hard one can use it and still get that thin bladed scalpel performance, how well the ergos work for such a thin carry and so on. So I really got "deep into that model" and came to admire the design a lot.
Now I like the design and concept so much, that just as a "knife guy" I think this model and/or particular design features should be more widespread in the knife world. Even if I personally have no need for certain changes.
This is when I wish for a Chap in another steel, let´s say LC200N. I personally have no need for that at all, I´d always take the XHP I have anyway in my Chap over LC 200N.
But I just love and appreciate Sals design and its performance so much, that i wish more people could experience it, for example also those who need a rustproof folder.

/ Now this was a long post yet again... ... I guess I´ll never learn to use less words in English, though I am honestly working on it...


I

[Wartstein]

Added to my reply above:

Just out of interest (no offense! Just so I understand)
Why do you want me to explain here what I think about hollow grinds AND then also a link to where I did the same thing beforehand already?
My opinion on hollow grinds has only changed in that I came to appreciate them (even) more lately - ?

b/c I wanted you to send a link in case you don't feel like typing out the same stuff again.
edit: to be precise I wanted to know why you sold the Centofante.

Thanks for your reply and explanation!
Actually my question was pretty unnecessary, I did not understand you rightly when I wrote your post at first.

[sal]

Interesting discussion. Thanx. It is quite unlikely that we would make a Chaparral in a Walker Linerlock or a Reeve Integral Lock (RIL). I designed the model to develop handles both for us and for exclusives. It is a gentleman's folder. I believe it will also work well as a gentlewoman's folder. The Lock-back works well and is made well.

I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well.

sal

[Wartstein]

I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well.

...

Now, Sal, these are true "casual mega bombshells" and you made my day, thanks!!

Meaning, there actually could be versions of the so great performing and unique Chaparral in other steels?... and first and foremost: SERRATIONS??!! - that´s amazing! I´ve been wishing for a 2mm ffg SE blade for quite some time now, and I am 100% positive: Some others too...

[Wartstein]

....

I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well.

sal

I´ve said already in my previous post: That´s great news!!

But may I ask: Any plans for kind-of-a Chap XL? So a chaparral-ish, thin 2mm ffg blade in perhaps a thin profile handle, but longer? In my humble opinion especially thinner, slicier blades get even better with a bit more cutting edge...?

I don´t know anything about marketing of course, but I could imagine that such a "Spyderco Superslicer" would find its buyers...

[cjk]

....

I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well.

sal

I´ve said already in my previous post: That´s great news!!

But may I ask: Any plans for kind-of-a Chap XL? So a chaparral-ish, thin 2mm ffg blade in perhaps a thin profile handle, but longer? In my humble opinion especially thinner, slicier blades get even better with a bit more cutting edge...?

I don´t know anything about marketing of course, but I could imagine that such a "Spyderco Superslicer" would find its buyers...

I love the idea of a longer, but not taller Chaparral. Don't enlarge it all directions, just make the existing handle and blade longer, maintain the choil and handle shape where the first two fingers and thumb grasp it.

[Wartstein]

....

I made the FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well.

sal

I´ve said already in my previous post: That´s great news!!

But may I ask: Any plans for kind-of-a Chap XL? So a chaparral-ish, thin 2mm ffg blade in perhaps a thin profile handle, but longer? In my humble opinion especially thinner, slicier blades get even better with a bit more cutting edge...?

I don´t know anything about marketing of course, but I could imagine that such a "Spyderco Superslicer" would find its buyers...

I love the idea of a longer, but not taller Chaparral. Don't enlarge it all directions, just make the existing handle and blade longer, maintain the choil and handle shape where the first two fingers and thumb grasp it.

Yes, a Chap XL or at least "chapp-ish" larger knife (main feature: 2mm ffg, but longer blade - ideally at least Endela-size) is probably the thing I´ve advocated for most on this forum.
See here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85342 or here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82492&p=1295580#p1295580 for example.

I may be wrong of course, but in my humble opinion this would be a great performer in pretty much any knife task and also sell well, if marketed smartly

[kobold]

A serrated Chap would be tempting indeed. But I already have the DF2 Salt SE. /scratches head
I guess the handle material would make or break the deal. FRN Chaparrals are not for me.

[MyelinSheath&Borborygmi]

Elongated/stretched Chaparral retaining its 2mm ffg would be excellent knife!!!

[ACutAbove]

I love my stepped ti chapparal, it's probably my favorite spyderco. FRN is cool to keep it light and offer colors but I think the chapparal line should lean further into it gentlemans pocket knife inspiration and go for wood handles and other such materials that fit that sort of identity.

I see there was a run like this in the Kopa for eg. https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... o-Wood/171

as for steel variants a balanced stainless that is easy to "field sharpen" is a good fit, and XHP already does that.

[sal]

Hi ACutAbove,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[capt.carl]

It's perfect as a backlock. It's the strongest lock you can get too. I wish spyderco made more backlocks, actually.