Chaparral... Liner Lock?

[Ramonade]

This thread made me want a C22...
Well, I'm gonna have to stop using a "post-it" for wishlist and go buy a ledger.

[jkgoggins]

1.) I don´t think the Chaparral could be as thin as it is (at least not the FRN version I own) and feature a linerlock. Would not offer enough lock interface probably, while if one wants to design the thinnest folder possible, a backlock is the way to go

2.) I think Spyderco already HAS the perfect "better Bugout" with the Salt 2 ffg - lighter than a Chap, and in size closer to a Bugout (which has not a really THIN handle imo), and with almost as thin blade stock (Salt 2.5, Bugout about 2.3 mm - additionally the taller blade and true ffg of the Salt 2 makes probably for a better cutting geometry) - even started a thread about this, see HERE viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88925
The Salt also WOULD be thick enough overall to technically work with a linerlock

I think the salt 2 would be a cool liner-lock as well, but it feels more purpose-built for marine environments, IMO the Chaparral has better potential to be Spydero's premium liner-lock offering.

I'm not sure why it would have to be thicker given that it already has liners, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a mm of thickness for superior action, one-hand operation, and fidget factor.

[TazKristi]

Hi, jkgoggins:
Welcome to our forum. We hope you enjoy your time with us.

Kristi

[Soanso McMasters]

The Chaparral is a great knife. It has been on my list of knives to get for nearly four years, but for one reason or another it hadn't landed in my pocket until this past month. And now that it is... WOW. That said, I wish there was a liner lock version available. I'm no designer, but taking the same construction (thin blade, super-thin washers, and therefore a thin handle), I think it would be one heck of a small gents knife and something fun to fidget with as well. What are your thoughts on this idea?

PS: I understand that the Chaparral series is to focus on scales/handles as opposed to locking mechanism, That said, a liner lock would still be wonderful.

Basically a Sage 1 mini, which I’d be all over.

[TkoK83Spy]

Too thin for a liner lock. That would be pretty sketchy. Also, not all knives are designed to be toys...aka, fidgety things. The Chap is great as it is.

[billdoier72]

I love the little Chaparral.
One of the things I love most is its thinness.
You'd almost have to I believe, by necessity make the knife thicker with any other lock design.
I think Sal and co. did it right.

[Wartstein]

I love the little Chaparral.
One of the things I love most is its thinness.
You'd almost have to I believe, by necessity make the knife thicker with any other lock design.
I think Sal and co. did it right.

This is what I meant in my previous post too.

I think while comp.lock and linerlock are great for giving a folder the tallest possible blade, a backlock shines when the goal is to design the overall thinnest folder

[jkgoggins]

Respectfully, I disagree with this line of thinking. Sal himself seemed to imply it was possible when he said it would "require all-new tooling." I'm just saying I think there might be enough demand to justify it, and it feels like that demand has grown since the original post in 2016.

The TRM Neutron is basically exactly the same thickness as the Chaparral, maybe an imperceptible smidge thicker. It's hard for me to imagine Nick Shabazz and so many of us would be as enthusiastic about the TRMs if they had back locks. It stands to reason, then, that a liner lock version of the Chaparral (the Chaparral 2?) might be commercially successful. Sal certainly knows better than I do, but it felt worth asking the question.

I'm a bit surprised by the pushback, to be honest, as my understanding was that the biggest knock on the Chaparral is the lock. I don't find it uncomfortable, but back locks just don't have that excitement factor for me. To be clear, I am a happy Chaparral owner, but I'd be even more excited about a liner lock version. Maybe I'm totally alone in my lack of enthusiasm for the back locks thoughts.

[TkoK83Spy]

I wonder why so many people put Shabazz on a pedestal??

[lilshaver]

This thread made me want a C22...
Well, I'm gonna have to stop using a "post-it" for wishlist and go buy a ledger.

While I have a Chaparral and love it just the way it is this post hits to close to home Ramonade.

[Doc Dan]

The thing about the Chaparral is that is has a very strong lock with an internal stop pin and it has a bias to close. Why in the world would I ever want a weaker lock, with an external stop pin, and a detent with no bias to close?

[Wartstein]

.......

The TRM Neutron is basically exactly the same thickness as the Chaparral, maybe an imperceptible smidge thicker......

I'm a bit surprised by the pushback, to be honest, as my understanding was that the biggest knock on the Chaparral is the lock. I don't find it uncomfortable, but back locks just don't have that excitement factor for me. To be clear, I am a happy Chaparral owner, but I'd be even more excited about a liner lock version. Maybe I'm totally alone in my lack of enthusiasm for the back locks thoughts.

Since I am one of those you´re obviously replying too:

No "pushback" was intended, my apologies if I came across like that!

My total layman thinking was just this:

- For me and in my use the Chaparral is a tank of a little hard use knife [EDIT: Correction: "little hard use FOLDER"]. Extremely solid built, and the blade, though thin, the best combo of slicey and still robust (and I am not just "talking"... I tested this extensively... )

- Now I do think technically a Chaparral FRN, but with a linerlock, could be made. But perhaps then it would really become more or less a "light duty gents knife", since in a handle and blade that thin, the lock interface would be very narrow, and the lockbar/tab in itself also thin and flexible, which could make the knife less safe in harder tasks.

- Not saying that this would be a bad knife!! It could even be a very good "pure light duty gents knife", no doubt! Generally I love a good linerlock, and even more so I´d love to see more mid to high range linerlock Spydies
It is just that in case of the Chap a linerlock version would be less versatile imo and I would probably not feel comfortable anymore using it for what I use my backlock Chap now.

/ Where I respectfully, but strongly disagree: "biggest knock on the Chaparral is the lock"
For me it is just the opposite: The Chap has the best backlock I´ve ever experienced. Internal stop pin, rock solid, no play at all.
And for those who find it a bit hard to depress: There is that easy mod for remedying this,

[Wartstein]

I wonder why so many people put Shabazz on a pedestal??

I don´t watch a lot of knife vids, and if so, than occasionally just "as a background noise" while doing something else - sorting gear, pull ups or whatever.

My take: I think the important thing is: Nick Shabazz does not "put himself on a pedestal" (so, Rick, this is actually not a direct reply to what you are saying in your post).
Meaning, he does not pretend that he actually is a "real reviewer" concerning most knives, but more of a "first impressions guy".
And as such I think his vids are good - just to see a new knife, especially in (size) comparison to other models (ok, just one thing that pretty much all "knife youtubers" do and that I find a bit strange: Judging the ergos by just holding the knife... and NOT actually using it in various tasks and over longer periods of time before forming an opinion).

I think his disassembly vids are good too. Just for seeing how a knife one might not own himself looks "on the inside" and for people who are new to disassembling folders and might not feel comfortable to just go for it, Nicks vids are a good step by step instruction imo.

[kobold]

Only because I already have Chaps and a Sage 1 (and enough other knives in this size range) I am not that interested, but otherwise I think I would be.

[Mushroom]

The Chaparral should not be a design that’s open to change in any way other than the handle material.

[TkoK83Spy]

The Chaparral should not be a design that’s open to change in any way other than the handle material.

Totally agree. Kind of like the Sage series with the locking mechanisms (though they have had some other releases recently outside of that for whatever reason)

[Wartstein]

The Chaparral should not be a design that’s open to change in any way other than the handle material.

I know we know already that we respectfully disagree on that one...

I DO think especially the Chaparral should absolutely be open to "changes", just concerning the steel (and an SE option), and, yes, size.

.... that is: As long as there is no other option in Spydercos lineup that offers the combination of the three rather unique Chap properties:

1.) 2mm ffg blade, so very slicey and performance oriented
2.) Extremely thin carry
3.) Best backlock I know off, with that rock solid lock up, which adds to the bomb proof hard use feel of this little thing

There is a bunch of Spydies in many different steels to choose from that share more "common" features (not meant negatively at all!): "Standard" handle thickness "standard" thicker blade stock, ", standard" backlock.

But if one wants that overall extremely thin, solidly built and slicey option in the quiver: There is only the Chap, in "just" one steel and just one (small) size. While in my opinion especially thinner, slicier blades profit from an longer cutting edge.

But, as said already somewhere else: I´d be perfectly happy with an "Endela thin edition" (conerning both blade and handle) or something along that lines too.

/ Change of the locktype is a different thing, as discussed already: I think with any other lock type the Chap would either have to get overall thicker or the lockup would not be as solid and secure anymore (or even both)


-

[Mushroom]

I know we know already that we respectfully disagree on that one...

I DO think especially the Chaparral should absolutely be open to "changes", just concerning the steel (and an SE option), and, yes, size.

.... that is: As long as there is no other option in Spydercos lineup that offers the combination of the three rather unique Chap properties:

1.) 2mm ffg blade, so very slicey and performance oriented
2.) Extremely thin carry
3.) Best backlock I know off, with that rock solid lock up, which adds to the bomb proof hard use feel of this little thing

There is a bunch of Spydies in many different steels to choose from that share more "common" features (not meant negatively at all!): "Standard" handle thickness "standard" thicker blade stock, ", standard" backlock.

But if one wants that overall extremely thin, solidly built and slicey option in the quiver: There is only the Chap, in "just" one steel and just one (small) size. While in my opinion especially thinner, slicier blades profit from an longer cutting edge.

But, as said already somewhere else: I´d be perfectly happy with an "Endela thin edition" (conerning both blade and handle) or something along that lines too.

/ Change of the locktype is a different thing, as discussed already: I think with any other lock type the Chap would either have to get overall thicker or the lockup would not be as solid and secure anymore (or even both)


-

Correct, we do disagree.

I think it’s disrespectful to be constantly asking to make changes to someone else’s designs just to please personal preferences. Especially when that designers company already goes out of their way to satisfy their customers by offering so many different options to begin with. Even more so when the requested changes are for a knife series with a long established tradition of control.

The Centofante 3 is still in production and available. It’s basically everything you listed (1-3) minus the full flat grind. It’s an excellent alternative for someone looking for a knife larger than the Chaparral with 2mm blade stock. The notion that because it has a hollow grind it’s not performance oriented is silly to me. I’d suggest at least trying it as an alternative before asking Spyderco to make such a large investment by changing an existing knife.

Then of course there is the entire Sage series. So close in design to the Chaparral that it may as well be nicknamed the “bigger Chaparral.” The blade stock on the Sage is slightly thicker than the Chaparral but the Sage is still an amazing slicer!

Lastly, the Delica is getting some sort of “high performance” variation. The Delica has a history of being a platform for trying new things though. So we know there is at least the “high performance” Delica variation somewhere on the horizon but it almost seems natural that it would eventually evolve into an Endela and Endura variation as well.

It’s still my opinion to just let the Chaparral be.

[Xformer]

I wonder why so many people put Shabazz on a pedestal??

Some think he's the one responsible for the legendary status of the Slysz Bowie, which is false.

[Mushroom]

I wonder why so many people put Shabazz on a pedestal??

Some think he's the one responsible for the legendary status of the Slysz Bowie, which is false.

That is actually not entirely false. I fully acknowledge he had no responsibility regarding the design and production of the Slysz Bowie but he is almost solely responsible for creating the demand and hype that knife sees today. Maybe not for you and many others on this forum who were aware of it before he claimed it was Spydercos best knife ever but for the general knife buying public he did a lot to put that knife on the map when he made those claims.