Extreme LC200N (Accidental) Corrosion Test

[JoeBleaux]

*Viewer Discretion Advised*
Three months ago we were sailing out of the harbor to the start of a race, when I suddenly realized my Caribbean wasn't in my pocket. I searched the deck and cabin quickly, couldn't find it and assumed it went overboard. A few curses, and note to self to stop using pocket clips on sailboats and I got on with my day. Fast forward to yesterday, while climbing in the bow to do some winter cleaning and install some new hardware, I find it sitting in a pool of water. I though, "Well good thing it's LC200N, Titanium and Fiberglass"... All of the rust seemed to be superficial and mostly wiped off, except for the compression lock which was stuck in the open position. When I tried to push it to the closed position it just fell out. I suppose the springy part hardened, and hardening does something to the corrosion resistance. Possibly some galvanic corrosion going on here, too. The metal plate in the picture is aluminum, the keel bolts are bronze. I don't know where LC200N specifically sits on the galvanic scale, but SS, Ti, Al, & BRZ must be a party. I know for sure SS & Ti don't play well together (hence black coating on screws) and SS & Al aren't particularly happy together. I think most of the water it was sitting in was fresh rain water, but there's a chance some of it was brackish. The last hurricane that came through NOLA pushed a lot of water into the dry storage area, and into the boat via the drain hole in the bottom (and mud along with it, that's why its so dirty :) .

Anyway, I though people here might be interested to see this. To be clear, I would never expect the knife to hold up in that environment, and I wouldn't ask Spyderco to warranty it. If they won't sell me a new inner liner I will be buying a new one. I really enjoyed the knife.
-J

[zuludelta]

Interesting that the rust seems superficial and wiped right off even on the damaged compression lock leaf spring. I do agree that galvanic corrosion had to have played a role in what happened. I wonder if a Salt-series mid-backlock folder in H-1 (with the CQI black hardware) or a Native 5 Salt or Siren (i.e., LC200N backlocks) would have fared any better?

[Evil D]

Wow that's brutal. Maybe it's time to take mine down from the tree :eek:

[SG89]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

[VooDooChild]

Theres no titanium in the caribbean that Im aware of. The hardware and liners should be some level of stainless. Im sure galvanic reactions still made this worse. I will bet the lockbar did just rust and break though.

H1 and lc200n hold up pretty well. Even if you somehow force rust to transfer onto it, they clean right up.

From what I have seen and experienced, the problems tend to be contamination from the factory, the construction of the rest of the knife, galvanic reactions/rust transfer, and the sheath they are stored in for fixed blades.

I would also bet a frn h1 salt knife would have faired better. They have the track record and have less to go wrong.

It certainly seems like the liner lockbar spring is what truly failed, and that is the weakest point. Its a long shot but send it in to Spyderco and see if they will give you a waranty claim on it.

[spoonrobot]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I had the slipjoint springs on a leatherman kick break in the same manner (frozen spring, light pressure breaks it apart) about a decade ago when I was doing some rust removal tests. I received a very thorough explanation that hydrogen embrittlement was the likely culprit. Now I don't know if this applies in your situation, but it sure is something to thing about.



Also, if the rust wiped off, I wonder if it was less rust and more bacterial/algae growth? IIRC some of the Salts with rust from a long time ago, turned out to actually be red algae.

[JoeBleaux]

My understanding is that the Screws and pocket clip are titanium, and the reason the CQI version now has the black costed screws is because there was some galvanic corrosion issues, the coating was ment to isolate the screws from the LC200N. I could be mistaken though.

Theres no titanium in the caribbean that Im aware of. The hardware and liners should be some level of stainless. Im sure galvanic reactions still made this worse. I will bet the lockbar did just rust and break though.

H1 and lc200n hold up pretty well. Even if you somehow force rust to transfer onto it, they clean right up.

From what I have seen and experienced, the problems tend to be contamination from the factory, the construction of the rest of the knife, galvanic reactions/rust transfer, and the sheath they are stored in for fixed blades.

I would also bet a frn h1 salt knife would have faired better. They have the track record and have less to go wrong.

It certainly seems like the liner lockbar spring is what truly failed, and that is the weakest point. Its a long shot but send it in to Spyderco and see if they will give you a waranty claim on it.

[JRinFL]

Spyderco will likely want this one back for inspection. I would certainly call them if you don't hear from them here on the forum.

[James Y]

Also, if the rust wiped off, I wonder if it was less rust and more bacterial/algae growth? IIRC some of the Salts with rust from a long time ago, turned out to actually be red algae.

That’s what I was thinking.

Jim

[Pancake]

That Caribbean on second photo has a very rustic look to it.
:Bad pun:

Cool accidental test.
I would still contact customer support and mail the knife to Golde, they could fix it eventually.

[Burton Knut]

Theres no titanium in the caribbean that Im aware of. The hardware and liners should be some level of stainless. Im sure galvanic reactions still made this worse. I will bet the lockbar did just rust and break though.

H1 and lc200n hold up pretty well. Even if you somehow force rust to transfer onto it, they clean right up.

From what I have seen and experienced, the problems tend to be contamination from the factory, the construction of the rest of the knife, galvanic reactions/rust transfer, and the sheath they are stored in for fixed blades.

I would also bet a frn h1 salt knife would have faired better. They have the track record and have less to go wrong.

It certainly seems like the liner lockbar spring is what truly failed, and that is the weakest point. Its a long shot but send it in to Spyderco and see if they will give you a waranty claim on it.

The pocket clip is Ti.

[Holland]

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting 'test'

I'm sure spyderco would like to get this knife in there hands for review

[JoeBleaux]

Very possible. To clarify a bit, it basically wiped off of the polished blade, the liners and pivot track of the blade took a worn red scotch brite and some barkeeper's friend. So a little more effort than just wiping off. Though, there was definitely some kind of Corrosion as the compression lock was toast.

Also, if the rust wiped off, I wonder if it was less rust and more bacterial/algae growth? IIRC some of the Salts with rust from a long time ago, turned out to actually be red algae.

[tonijedi]

Wow that's brutal. Maybe it's time to take mine down from the tree :eek:

My first thought was exactly your knives and your tree :D

[PayneTrain]

Very interesting. I would not think that corrosion had anything to do with the lock breaking, and I don't know what you mean by hardening. Work hardening requires deformation and I don't think there's such a thing as corrosive hardening, and even if it were a thing there's plenty of material left as you can see in the cross-section of the break. I think there was either a defect, or something bad happened when it got snagged from your pocket all those months ago.

Very nice torture test of LC200N, though. I'm guessing the liners are something like 316 stainless or something similar which are the closest thing to rust-proof that one can get in a standard, "non-specialty" steel, and LC200N clearly outlasted it! This is the reason I don't like steel liners in my Salts. Even the pivot screw in my Pacific Salt managed to rust enough over time to jam the whole thing up. The blade isn't much good if the rest of the knife is seized! I DO think a true Salt should be able to survive that environment.

[JRinFL]

Thanks to Spoonrobot's post above I was lead to a quick search for hydrogen embrittlement and stress corrosion cracking. One of these might be the real cause. This is why Spyderco needs this back for a thorough examination.

[ladybug93]

thanks for sharing!

i was sure i read the liners in the caribbean were also lc200n to help prevent galvanic corrosion issues. either way, i have a hard time believing that lock snapped because of rust. i would guess it had more to do with exposure. i also had a similar experience with a leatherman liner lock as mentioned above.

[StuntZombie]

That's the second one I've seen break like that at the compression lock. A buddy of mine actually had the same break occur several months ago. I'll be curious to hear what they find.

[JoeBleaux]

As I understand it, most springs are hardened to some extent to give them there, well spring. I'm pretty sure that liner is just stamped out of a flat piece of steel, and the compression lock is bent into place some how, maybe with heat?
Also, as I understand it, the liners are made from LC200N not 316. Something I just realized... In the first picture I posted you can see a slotted screw going into the hull. It's either 316 or 304, and has been there for a decade or more with no corrosion. Not sure why they wouldn't just use 316 for the liner, it has to be cheaper.

-how long before my post don't have to.be approved by a mod?

Very interesting. I would not think that corrosion had anything to do with the lock breaking, and I don't know what you mean by hardening. Work hardening requires deformation and I don't think there's such a thing as corrosive hardening, and even if it were a thing there's plenty of material left as you can see in the cross-section of the break. I think there was either a defect, or something bad happened when it got snagged from your pocket all those months ago.

Very nice torture test of LC200N, though. I'm guessing the liners are something like 316 stainless or something similar which are the closest thing to rust-proof that one can get in a standard, "non-specialty" steel, and LC200N clearly outlasted it! This is the reason I don't like steel liners in my Salts. Even the pivot screw in my Pacific Salt managed to rust enough over time to jam the whole thing up. The blade isn't much good if the rest of the knife is seized! I DO think a true Salt should be able to survive that environment.

[Sumdumguy]

Looks like some metal memory action going on.

It got "frozen" by corrosion, while the lock bar was under full tension, creating a fatigue crack in the liner. Maybe?...