This is pretty much my opinion as well, except I am an "accidental" collector (accumulator). We now live in the era of $500 Spyderco knives. I speculate that many makers have to move their products upward in the market to survive as the Chinese continue to use unequal trading practices to drive competitors out of the market. Low and much of the middle market price ranges are all Chinese now based on what I see in online knife shops.Pelagic wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:00 pmI'm sick of these threads just as much as anyone, but I'm also sick of the excuses for Spyderco's prices.
HERE'S THE DEAL. Spyderco charges what people are willing to pay. It's a (relatively) FREE MARKET. The prices are BS, but at the end of the day you get a good product. If you don't like it, buy less spyderco knives. That's what I'm doing honestly. I will continue to love spyderco, but I'll continue to buy from other companies because my wallet makes the decisions, not my heart. I'm not an important customer to spyderco anyway as I'm not a collector. A knife USER will not always be Spyderco's dream customer. But seriously, complaining will only get you so far.
I've seen similar comments before and it comes across as a bit condescending, perhaps bordering on arrogant to say that those with price concerns somehow have less understanding or a lower level of education. Not shiny footprints at all, IMOsal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:52 pm
Different strokes. Different levels of education and understanding.
I see a design like the Shaman as a physical embodiment of tens of thousands of years of history, hundreds of years of design and technology, 60 years of personal touch, the result of hundreds of hours to form, hundreds of hands and minds to build. Yeah, you got. "It's just a knife"
sal
JRinFL wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:24 amI speculate that many makers have to move their products upward in the market to survive as the Chinese continue to use unequal trading practices to drive competitors out of the market. Low and much of the middle market price ranges are all Chinese now based on what I see in online knife shops.
I've seen similar comments before and it comes across as a bit condescending, perhaps bordering on arrogant to say that those with price concerns somehow have less understanding or a lower level of education. Not shiny footprints at all, IMOJRinFL wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:24 am
I see a design like the Shaman as a physical embodiment of tens of thousands of years of history, hundreds of years of design and technology, 60 years of personal touch, the result of hundreds of hours to form, hundreds of hands and minds to build. Yeah, you got. "It's just a knife"
sal
Steel? Yes. Leather? Maybe? I think the common arguments like "sure, China can make cheap knives, but do you really think that's real S35VN?" is intellectually lazy. Things aren't automatically lower quality just because they're made in Asian countries. In fact, if you can buy a $75 knife of the same design that was either made in China or Colorado, which do you think is going to have better materials, fit, and finish? Especially given that labor is a huge cost in making knives.BornIn1500 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:51 amKind of funny you say that because it's how everyone outside of the knife world also views knives. Are you sure a BMW and a Hyundai use the same quality steel? Are you sure it's the same quality leather? What you're saying is very similar to "well a Chris Reeve knife has a steel blade like an MTech. No difference there"... only you're talking about cars instead.
It's been interesting observing the emotional meltdowns over a very timid topic. I don't design knives or spend hundred of hours a year "educating" myself on knife forums, but what I have done is been a knife user and collector for over 25 years. I have also purchased knives as gifts for my friends, clients and customers for over a decade...to the tune of 200+ knives a year on average. I buy them from retailers without asking for a bulk discount, have them engraved and give them out as a thank you.sal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:30 amHi JR,
I believe that customers have different levels of KNIFE education and KNIFE understanding. And I might add business understanding. Not trying to be arrogant. Sorry if you feel that. As we look more and deeper into any subject we develop a greater education and understanding of that subject.
sal
The Chinese can make a quality product. I just don’t trust that they will be consistent about it. It’s almost like they are running CQI for making things cheaper. And we have been asking that of them for decades so they don’t understand when we want quality and to not make the next batch cheaper.
How can you call it intellectually lazy when its been a known issue for years? Sal himself said when he started producing Byrds they tried to call the steel 440C, but it wasn't. There are cases on chinese D2 knives not being D2.zhyla wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:22 amSteel? Yes. Leather? Maybe? I think the common arguments like "sure, China can make cheap knives, but do you really think that's real S35VN?" is intellectually lazy. Things aren't automatically lower quality just because they're made in Asian countries. In fact, if you can buy a $75 knife of the same design that was either made in China or Colorado, which do you think is going to have better materials, fit, and finish? Especially given that labor is a huge cost in making knives.BornIn1500 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:51 amKind of funny you say that because it's how everyone outside of the knife world also views knives. Are you sure a BMW and a Hyundai use the same quality steel? Are you sure it's the same quality leather? What you're saying is very similar to "well a Chris Reeve knife has a steel blade like an MTech. No difference there"... only you're talking about cars instead.
Ever run into a really old guy that refers to Japanese made things as "crap"? That was totally a thing a few decades ago.