I finally figured out what "Ergonomics" are

[Evil D]

According to Merriam Webster:

ergonomics
noun
er·​go·​nom·​ics ˌər-gə-ˈnä-miks
plural in form but singular or plural in construction
1
: an applied science concerned with designing and arranging things people use so that the people and things interact most efficiently and safely
called also biotechnology, human engineering, human factors

2
: the design characteristics of an object resulting especially from the application of the science of ergonomics

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But as this pertains to knives, I think I've come to the conclusion that ergonomics are what you don't feel.

Think about it, if you hold a square stick of wood in your hand, you feel that it does not match the shape of your hand. You feel the sharp edges, you feel the squareness of it. When you hold your favorite knife handle that fits your hand the best, the pleasant feeling comes from what you don't feel, because the handle shape is reducing as many sharp edges and corners and hot spots and irregularities as possible and conforming to the shape of your hand.

This ties into my disliking of most finger grooves and choils, because it's unlikely that they fit my fingers perfectly, so when I grip the handle I feel them. But then there's the Autonomy that does fit my finger size and spacing and I feel those a lot less when I squeeze the handle.

This is why I'm drawn to handles like the Bodacious, because it feels better to feel less.

[Jeb]

Oh man you got this all just right, to be all wrong lol... I think your spot on in your thinking, but when applied to our knives you need to feel some of the choils and finger grooves or ledges...

Reason I think this, so you know darn well if you let the knife slip, it's going to hurt, slip much on mine and stitches are next lol... lol

Now all this does apply to a knife that fits your grip well, least close anyway. If the knife is to small all this is just way jacked up and jimo, might as well try to fit the square peg in a to small of a round hole.

All kidding aside here, I do like the finger and thumb choils and I like lots and lots of jimping around them. I want to know I have this knife in my paw and the tighter I hold it; the more the knife bites me back. Make any sense?

It's so hard to type all this stuff on here and try to make sense of what I want to say. Now the first two paragraphs of this I just picking on you and basically laughing in agreement with you all together...

But it's a sure thing we all don't like, want or need the same things. These knives are no difference and very well more driven to a custom size, fit and feel, thanks to companies like Spyderco.

Then we all like the different looks and colors, too. Not even brought in the different steels and scale materials yet... that's a whole new area code with those two things alone.

I think it would be hard pressed to build knives today with so many ways to do things and all the choices there are out there. The main thing in the way is money, but I'm also not entirely sure that our Government is not a bigger problem doing so.

[Synov]

I sort of disagree. It's not how it feels just by holding it, it's how it feels during and after using it. For example, a knife can be super comfortable doing nothing but then hurt your hand after chopping wood. Slightly thicker handles than what you may think are comfortable seem to be good for chopping.

[Coastal]

It's weird, but if I had read either David's or Jeb's comments in isolation, I might have agreed with it!

I'm mostly in David's camp: I usually like a neutral handle with smooth chamfers the best. There are notable exceptions like the Manix and Chaparral, that lock my grip with grooves and/or choils.

[xceptnl]

It's weird, but if I had read either David's or Jeb's comments in isolation, I might have agreed with it!

I'm mostly in David's camp: I usually like a neutral handle with smooth chamfers the best. There are notable exceptions like the Manix and Chaparral, that lock my grip with grooves and/or choils.

I feel like the "notable examples" are just designs that have hit the subjective ergonomic match for your hand. I see the advantage to both. I find this especially more notable with handguns.

[Wartstein]

Though I see where you are coming from, I personally don´t think that "ergonomics are what you don´t feel... rather "... what you don´t feel in a negative way"

I mean I can feel things like that a handle is beefy and fills my hand perfectly well, I can feel that a "beak" at the handle end prevents my hand from sliding backwards, I can feel that a for my hand well placed "peak" between two fingers grooves might make a handle less likely to roll - but all of that in a good and not bothering way.

So imo part of "ergonomics" can absolutely be what one feels...though it is probably true that feeling things that bother or hurt one are often more present than things that are like they should be.

It is a bit like when you are lying at the beach in the sand and everything just feels comfortable and nice, as opposed to if there is a hard stone under your back that makes lying there uncomfortable... two different kinds of "feeling something"

[Coastal]

It's weird, but if I had read either David's or Jeb's comments in isolation, I might have agreed with it!

I'm mostly in David's camp: I usually like a neutral handle with smooth chamfers the best. There are notable exceptions like the Manix and Chaparral, that lock my grip with grooves and/or choils.

I feel like the "notable examples" are just designs that have hit the subjective ergonomic match for your hand. I see the advantage to both. I find this especially more notable with handguns.

Exactly. That’s pretty much what I meant, but you said it better. Most of the time, though, I’ll prefer a neutral or close-to-neutral handle.

[Pokey]

With regards to the feel of a Spyderco in my hand I'd add that when I can single-handedly, retrieve the knife clipped on my pocket, open it, and roll it into position for use without even looking at it and it falls into that same position that's perfect for use nearly 100% of the time, it has perfect ergonomics for my hand.

[Pacu0420]

No matter what we find to be ergonomic to our hands, I think we can all agree that Spyderco goes to greater lengths than most (if not all) companies to make a knife that has great ergonomics.

[Tristan_david2001]

Ergonomics isn’t the study of comfort necessarily, but about having features that assist the user in use, of course you want the handle to be comfortable, but it’s not the priority. Pure comfort would be like a stick of marshmallows. Which obviously wouldn’t work as a knife handle. To me, thumb ramps, choils, grooves and swells, when done right help lock your grip in and therefor give better control over the edge, super neutral handles, are more comfortable in a way, but less ergonomic when it comes to actually using and controlling the blade

[8th_Note]

Ergonomics isn’t the study of comfort necessarily, but about having features that assist the user in use, of course you want the handle to be comfortable, but it’s not the priority. Pure comfort would be like a stick of marshmallows. Which obviously wouldn’t work as a knife handle. To me, thumb ramps, choils, grooves and swells, when done right help lock your grip in and therefor give better control over the edge, super neutral handles, are more comfortable in a way, but less ergonomic when it comes to actually using and controlling the blade

an industrial engineer I used to work with once told me that the definition of ergonomic is "more better". I think that sums it up well

[Scandi Grind]

I'm a neutral handle fan for sure. A couple good examples:

For general utility knives, neutral shapes can be held any which way and be very comforable for me. It lets me tell the knife what to do without the knife telling me what to do. I don't mind more sculpted handles than these, but I have an aversion to finger grooves because they can be totally off in my hands, which are very small. When it comes to a knife intended for defense, finger security becomes important, but there are good ways to lock someones hand into a knife without finger grooves, so they just don't seem to have many advantages to me. A single groove up front tends to be OK, I just don't like the ones behind that front finger.

[Evil D]

I'm a neutral handle fan for sure. A couple good examples:

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For general utility knives, neutral shapes can be held any which way and be very comforable for me. It lets me tell the knife what to do without the knife telling me what to do. I don't mind more sculpted handles than these, but I have an aversion to finger grooves because they can be totally off in my hands, which are very small. When it comes to a knife intended for defense, finger security becomes important, but there are good ways to lock someones hand into a knife without finger grooves, so they just don't seem to have many advantages to me. A single groove up front tends to be OK, I just don't like the ones behind that front finger.

I think it's very telling that actual butcher's knives that are used by guys that are cutting for hours a day don't have finger choils and grooves and such all over the handles. They probably use their knives just as hard as an actual "tactical" use would go if you know what I mean and they seem to hold onto them just fine. I think most of the knife world really over complicates this.

[Tristan_david2001]

It’s a specialized case depending on what the knife is for, there’s no one style ergonomics fits all types of knives. For edc pocket knives that are used largely for utility cutting I appreciate the style or ergonomics sal uses in his designs

[wrdwrght]

According to Merriam Webster:

ergonomics
noun
er·​go·​nom·​ics ˌər-gə-ˈnä-miks
plural in form but singular or plural in construction
1
: an applied science concerned with designing and arranging things people use so that the people and things interact most efficiently and safely
called also biotechnology, human engineering, human factors

2
: the design characteristics of an object resulting especially from the application of the science of ergonomics

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But as this pertains to knives, I think I've come to the conclusion that ergonomics are what you don't feel.

Think about it, if you hold a square stick of wood in your hand, you feel that it does not match the shape of your hand. You feel the sharp edges, you feel the squareness of it. When you hold your favorite knife handle that fits your hand the best, the pleasant feeling comes from what you don't feel, because the handle shape is reducing as many sharp edges and corners and hot spots and irregularities as possible and conforming to the shape of your hand.

This ties into my disliking of most finger grooves and choils, because it's unlikely that they fit my fingers perfectly, so when I grip the handle I feel them. But then there's the Autonomy that does fit my finger size and spacing and I feel those a lot less when I squeeze the handle.

This is why I'm drawn to handles like the Bodacious, because it feels better to feel less.

I like the thinking here.

But I hasten to add that I can prefer some Spydies that are “dis-ergonomic”. For example, the Shaman impresses me as ergonomic, but I prefer the Bodacious because its slabs counter the tendency to roll that I sense when the Shaman is in my hand.

[vivi]

According to Merriam Webster:

ergonomics
noun
er·​go·​nom·​ics ˌər-gə-ˈnä-miks
plural in form but singular or plural in construction
1
: an applied science concerned with designing and arranging things people use so that the people and things interact most efficiently and safely
called also biotechnology, human engineering, human factors

2
: the design characteristics of an object resulting especially from the application of the science of ergonomics

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But as this pertains to knives, I think I've come to the conclusion that ergonomics are what you don't feel.

Think about it, if you hold a square stick of wood in your hand, you feel that it does not match the shape of your hand. You feel the sharp edges, you feel the squareness of it. When you hold your favorite knife handle that fits your hand the best, the pleasant feeling comes from what you don't feel, because the handle shape is reducing as many sharp edges and corners and hot spots and irregularities as possible and conforming to the shape of your hand.

This ties into my disliking of most finger grooves and choils, because it's unlikely that they fit my fingers perfectly, so when I grip the handle I feel them. But then there's the Autonomy that does fit my finger size and spacing and I feel those a lot less when I squeeze the handle.

This is why I'm drawn to handles like the Bodacious, because it feels better to feel less.

I like the thinking here.

But I hasten to add that I can prefer some Spydies that are “dis-ergonomic”. For example, the Shaman impresses me as ergonomic, but I prefer the Bodacious because its slabs counter the tendency to roll that I sense when the Shaman is in my hand.

I never have figured out why that's an issue for some but not others. I have no issues using opinels and it doesn't get much rounder than that.

[Wartstein]

.. It's not how it feels just by holding it, it's how it feels during and after using it....

This generally (so not necessarily "only" regarding this thread) is very true.

Said it before: It is weird when those youtube "reviewers" (... ) just lightly hold a new to them folder and then can "tell" how "ergonomic" it is without having done even one single cut...

[Bill1170]

According to Merriam Webster:

ergonomics
noun
er·​go·​nom·​ics ˌər-gə-ˈnä-miks
plural in form but singular or plural in construction
1
: an applied science concerned with designing and arranging things people use so that the people and things interact most efficiently and safely
called also biotechnology, human engineering, human factors

2
: the design characteristics of an object resulting especially from the application of the science of ergonomics

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But as this pertains to knives, I think I've come to the conclusion that ergonomics are what you don't feel.

Think about it, if you hold a square stick of wood in your hand, you feel that it does not match the shape of your hand. You feel the sharp edges, you feel the squareness of it. When you hold your favorite knife handle that fits your hand the best, the pleasant feeling comes from what you don't feel, because the handle shape is reducing as many sharp edges and corners and hot spots and irregularities as possible and conforming to the shape of your hand.

This ties into my disliking of most finger grooves and choils, because it's unlikely that they fit my fingers perfectly, so when I grip the handle I feel them. But then there's the Autonomy that does fit my finger size and spacing and I feel those a lot less when I squeeze the handle.

This is why I'm drawn to handles like the Bodacious, because it feels better to feel less.

I like the thinking here.

But I hasten to add that I can prefer some Spydies that are “dis-ergonomic”. For example, the Shaman impresses me as ergonomic, but I prefer the Bodacious because its slabs counter the tendency to roll that I sense when the Shaman is in my hand.

A similar squared shape situation exists with Glock pistols. They don’t necessarily “melt in your hand,” but many shooters find that the squared-off grip helps them to index reliably and to be accurate.

[PaloArt]

According to Merriam Webster:

ergonomics
noun
er·​go·​nom·​ics ˌər-gə-ˈnä-miks
plural in form but singular or plural in construction
1
: an applied science concerned with designing and arranging things people use so that the people and things interact most efficiently and safely
called also biotechnology, human engineering, human factors

2
: the design characteristics of an object resulting especially from the application of the science of ergonomics

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But as this pertains to knives, I think I've come to the conclusion that ergonomics are what you don't feel.

Think about it, if you hold a square stick of wood in your hand, you feel that it does not match the shape of your hand. You feel the sharp edges, you feel the squareness of it. When you hold your favorite knife handle that fits your hand the best, the pleasant feeling comes from what you don't feel, because the handle shape is reducing as many sharp edges and corners and hot spots and irregularities as possible and conforming to the shape of your hand.

This ties into my disliking of most finger grooves and choils, because it's unlikely that they fit my fingers perfectly, so when I grip the handle I feel them. But then there's the Autonomy that does fit my finger size and spacing and I feel those a lot less when I squeeze the handle.

This is why I'm drawn to handles like the Bodacious, because it feels better to feel less.

What a breath of fresh air this post is EvilD! No rant about what new iteration of current model someone demands and so on.

On the topic you raise, this is fantastic point, I rarely think about ergonomics if something is not bothering me, like with Delica, Chap or UK PK for example. All three models work perfectly for me lately and I don't think about how great ergonomics are since I just use them with comfort for what I need to use those tools. I do understand that we all have different hands and way how one grips the tool so everyone has different models that work for them. But for me good ergos are when I don't even realize problem of ergos in first place - thanks for realizing that

[mikey177]

Apart from the knife handle, another area where Spyderco applies ergonomics is in the opening hole.

I'm in my 50s, and with my beat up hands, a thumb hole is 10x better as an opening method than a thumb stud, especially the kind used by CRK.

Likewise, locking mechanisms can also be ergonomic or not. I find the compression lock on the Kapara to not be ergonomic, as the scales are slick and the handle skinny, requiring me to pay extra attention when closing the knife.