Spyderco Paysan stop pin issue

[donwerner]

Hey guys,

New on this forum, but wanted to share my experience. I have been collecting Spydercos for many years, but has never had to use the warranty service - until now. Unfortunately it's my most expensive Spyderco that has an issue. My Paysan has a stop pin which has popped out, just a tiny bit, so it's no longer flush with the frame and very visible. I therefore contacted support and got a swift reply back saying the stop pin issue is unfixable and that they therefore will not be able to fix my knife, nor can they replace with a new one, because it's out of production. What I am left with is a store credit for the MSRP. That is disappointing because I will loose my Paysan and is left with credit, which I can use on a knife I basically don't want. Furthermore I live in Europe so I will also be taxed if I order anything from their webshop in the US.

I have asked if they would be willing to pay for a fix. I know a knife maker who can do the repair for me, but they won't. Also asked if they can issue the store credit to a European store, which they can't.

So what I am left with, if I want to keep my Paysan, is to pay for the repair myself, which is what I will end up doing. It's not a super expensive repair (around 150 usd in total) but I am disappointed in Spyderco. In my opinion they should be able to fix a 920 USD MSRP knife. Reading the various forums this is a well know problem on the earlier versions and yet they have no fix for it.

What are your thoughts?

[yablanowitz]

I think you should have paid the $3,500 USD for the custom to avoid the issue

[Mushroom]

I'm confused by what exactly you mean happened to the knife. The internal stop pin in your Paysan has popped out?

[zhyla]

I'm confused by what exactly you mean happened to the knife. The internal stop pin in your Paysan has popped out?

I had to go look at a teardown video (Nick Shabazz video) to understand what has happened.

The Paysan is unique in that the handle is a single piece of titanium... except for the stop pin. The stop pin appears to be pinned in much like the stainless steel handled Spydies are pinned (peened and then ground flush with the handle). And apparently OP's stop pin has become loose.

It's disappointing that this would happen on such an incredibly expensive (and unique) knife. And sounds like CS isn't all that convenient for our European friends. The latter is I think just part of buying stuff from other countries. The former... well, I guess it's not too surprising when we think about it as the pinned handle Spydies have similar repairability issues. But it probably wasn't something anyone considered when shelling out $400 for a Paysan.

Sorry OP -- hope your local tech can make it better. Seems like a difficult thing to repair perfectly.

[Mushroom]

@zhyla Ok, I understand now, thanks. I can recall seeing the slightest outline for the stop pin on the Nirvana but I guess I never noticed it on the Paysan. Don't know that I ever looked for it either though.

@donwerner Sorry to hear that happened with such an expensive knife. Are you able to share a photo of the knife? I'm really curious to see it now.

[donwerner]

Here's a close-up shot of the stop pin issue.

[RustyIron]

What are your thoughts?

I don't own a Paysan, and I've never handled a Paysan, so you might think that I don't know what I'm talking about... and you're probably right.

The pin was either pressed or shrunk into place before the finish work was done on the knife. No matter how hard you try, it's unlikely you'll be able to get the pin to be invisible like it was from the factory.

Keep in mind that the pin is supposed to be TIGHT... like maybe an interference fit. The more you screw around with it, the looser it will become. That's why the factory doesn't want to touch it. Nevertheless, I'd be tempted to beat it back into place. To hedge my bet, I'd liberally apply wicking grade Loctite to the pin on the outside and inside surfaces. The fit might be so tight that the Loctite doesn't get into the joint, but it might be worth a try. Place the knife on a piece of hardwood. Put another piece of hardwood over the pin, and rap it smartly with a small hammer or mallet. Check for movement of the pin. If you have some movement, keep going until the pin is flush with the rest of the handle. If you have no movement, double down and smack it harder. If you still get no movement, a brass or aluminum hammer might do the trick. However, striking the surface directly might mar the surface. Even the hardwood block might mar the surface. One thing's for certain: if you strike the surface directly with a steel hammer, you'll mar the finish.

Your's is not the only Paysan with this problem. I was just searching for pictures, and came up with a Paysan on eBay where the pin has walked out. Some hamfist tried to fix it, and the pin appears to be deformed a little. It's hard to be sure, as the picture is blurry.

[zhyla]

I'd be tempted to beat it back into place.

I don’t think that’s an option. The finish will be damaged if you strike it enough to deform the pin (necessary to tighten the pin).

I’ve been thinking about this more. I think the best course of action is to add some thin loctite and leave it as is. The pin won’t go anywhere and it’s better to live with functional imperfection than have somebody make it worse.

[RazorSharp86]

Sucks.
I remember every time seeing one of those fancy, expensive Integral knives, thinking that the design doesn’t allow for ease of serviceability if (or rather when) things go wrong.
Living outside the US makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible to send stuff for warranty, too.

[ChrisinHove]

Is the stop pin Titanium? If not, you might try freezing the knife / stop pin, before trying to press it back in.

It’s my understanding that Ti has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than steel, so the steel will shrink more than the Ti as it gets colder.

[Sharp Guy]

Yeah I've seen this happen before. That's the reason I'm leery of flicking my Paysan open. I still find myself doing it though.

I wonder if Peter Rassenti would be willing to help?

[RustyIron]

I don’t think that’s an option.

Tasks like this are what separate the men from the boys. One can go through life accumulating a bigger and bigger pile of broken possessions. Many do. Or one can step out of one's comfort zone and begin developing skills that will prove invaluable through life's inevitable challenges. This path is chosen by very few.

[JFR1]

Drift punch and a hammer :)

[zhyla]

I don’t think that’s an option.

Tasks like this are what separate the men from the boys. One can go through life accumulating a bigger and bigger pile of broken possessions. Many do. Or one can step out of one's comfort zone and begin developing skills that will prove invaluable through life's inevitable challenges. This path is chosen by very few.

As philosophically attractive as that mantra may be, you're missing the point. He's got a very nice knife that he wants to look perfect again. Beating on that pin will never accomplish that. Sometimes recognizing your constraints and limitations are what separate the adults from the children.

[zhyla]

It’s my understanding that Ti has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than steel, so the steel will shrink more than the Ti as it gets colder.

I think the pin must be titanium, otherwise it would not blend with the handle like it's supposed to.

[vanka]

So sorry to hear about your problem. Paysan is a beautiful knife and as you said it is discontinued. I'm afraid spyderco did the proper thing - they offered you store credit to compensate for your disappointment and their inability to perform the said repair. Especially that you're in Europe. In my eyes they did what they can to resolve the issue. I'm not saying I'm right, but if I were you, I'll take the store credit, use it, sell the knives to cash out and buy myself a new Paysan. If you look hard there's a few pieces here and there, pure collector pieces, never used. There's always exit from any situation. Don't let something like this to ruin your day.

[Danke]

Am I the only person who'd just tap that back in?

Spoiler Alert, I know I'm not.

[donwerner]

It's not ruining my day by any means, but I'm a bit baffled that Spyderco don't do warrant work on their most expensive knife ever. I had expected otherwise, but I guess you live and you learn. I am not going to ship it back to HQ because I will loose my knife, and I'm not interested in that. I'll pay for the fix myself out of pocket and keep it. And when that's the case I would have loved for Spyderco to offer some sorta refund, but it is what it is.

For all the suggestions to "just tap it back in". It's not happening, I've tried. The pin is not going anywhere. The only thing I haven't tried is hitting it directly with a hammer and that's going to mess up the finish, so I'm not going to do that.

[zhyla]

Am I the only person who'd just tap that back in?

Spoiler Alert, I know I'm not.

If it were a flat pin I would be inclined to squeeze it back in with a brass or aluminum bit in a vise. The angle will make it hard to direct force along the axis of the pin.

I’d give it a go on a cheaper knife but not this one.

[vanka]

It's not ruining my day by any means, but I'm a bit baffled that Spyderco don't do warrant work on their most expensive knife ever. I had expected otherwise, but I guess you live and you learn. I am not going to ship it back to HQ because I will loose my knife, and I'm not interested in that. I'll pay for the fix myself out of pocket and keep it. And when that's the case I would have loved for Spyderco to offer some sorta refund, but it is what it is.

For all the suggestions to "just tap it back in". It's not happening, I've tried. The pin is not going anywhere. The only thing I haven't tried is hitting it directly with a hammer and that's going to mess up the finish, so I'm not going to do that.

There are certain types of knives that simply cannot be fixed. For various reasons. Same goes with cars etc. And sometimes replacing or refunding is the better option. And I believe you said Spyderco did offer you a store credit, which is one of the correct ways to deal with the matter. By the way, Spyderco can't really say they 100% can't fix it until they have it with them. Pictures and description can't tell the whole story. But then again, once with them they may deem it unsafe for use and refuse to return it to you. There's legal matters in this case as well. From our perspective as customers seems quite simple - I'll send you the knife please fix it for me. For Spyderco, as a company there's a dozen of things they have to weigh in before making a decision. There's a lot of other reasons I don't want to dig in right now. But you should consider accepting the offer for store credit for the most obvious reason of all - the knife might not be 100% safe for use.