Some Steel better for folders than fixed blades?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

This is something I wondered about and perhaps sal Larrin David and others here can properly educate all of us about it. With Spyderco knives and knives in general are some alloys and types of steel more situated for cutting use as folder blades while others make better fixed blades, or does it really come down to heat treatment and personal preference? Example: it's been said that very springy carbon steel is better for large fixed blades but plenty of small folders use it, too. H1 and H2 seem to make great blades in all ranges, from the Salt 1 up to the Whale Rescue. VG10 is used on knives from Lady Bug up to large fixed blades and chef knives. What do you notice on this?

[gooeytek]

I have tough steels for large fixed blades and choppers (8670, S7, Infi, SR-101, AEB-L).
I usually prefer my folders to have extremely wear-resistant and high edge retention steels (S90V, S110V, Maxamet, REX-121, K390, 10V) since they'll be used more for lighter work.
I also have other folders in AEB-L, CPM-D2, CPM-M4, 4V, Rex45 that kinda bridge the gap in toughness vs wear resistance.
Kitchen knives and small fixed blades in AEB-L, W2, 15n20 and Magnacut.

[Jesla]

I have tough steels for large fixed blades and choppers (8670, S7, Infi, SR-101, AEB-L).
I usually prefer my folders to have extremely wear-resistant and high edge retention steels (S90V, S110V, Maxamet, REX-121, K390, 10V) since they'll be used more for lighter work.
I also have other folders in AEB-L, CPM-D2, CPM-M4, 4V, Rex45 that kinda bridge the gap in toughness vs wear resistance.
Kitchen knives and small fixed blades in AEB-L, W2, 15n20 and Magnacut.

This…

I was taught and then learned the hard way : RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB

[Evil D]

Depends on intended use.

If a folder is not built for hard use, then what benefits are you really getting from a super tough steel? Less edge damage? You can work that out with edge angles.

Would you build a Bushcraft fixed blade with HIC ceramic when it's not going to handle abuse very well? You might be able to run it thicker to help keep it strong but then you're sacrificing slicing ability.

I think with folders we tend to try out steels for the fun of it, but I think a lot of steels are overkill for a folder.

[Synov]

Smaller knives don't have to be as tough as large knives. You are probably not going to use your folder as a prybar. So you rarely see high toughness steels like 3V and Z-Tuff in folders. However, you may want a tougher steel if you want to compensate for the weakness of a thin blade. So you see all kinds of steels used appropriately in folders. Choose the best steel for the intended purpose, not the type of knife.

[bdblue]

That's a tough question. My first impression is that tougher steels would be more appropriate for fixed blades but I also like the idea of tough steels in folders. For knives that I would buy I would think about the intended use of the knife before selecting a steel however I'm more likely to think in terms of tougher steels for fixed blades.

[Scandi Grind]

It's more about use case than folder or fixed, but because folders are inherently weaker we tend not to use them for abusive tasks as much and therefore do not require as much toughness in the steel. That means you can focus on other attributes such as edge retention in folders without hindering it's already established range of use.

Fixed blades tend to be called upon specifically for their strength, so tough steels are often used. However, fixed blades don't require tough steels, they can be just as appropriately made with high wear resistance steels if that fits the use case you have in mind for it. Fixed blades can be made any way you please, but folders don't tend to focus on toughness as often because there best use case is not chopping logs.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Good knowledge. The forum consensus seems to be that VG10 and BDN1 are good general purpose folder blade steels?

[Wartstein]

Good knowledge. The forum consensus seems to be that VG10 and BDN1 are good general purpose folder blade steels?

I just can give you my personal "first associations" on these two:
VG10 great for serrations, BD1N extremely good "effort to sharpen / edge holding" ratio (supereasy to touch up and for that (!) more than decent edge retention).

[spydergoat]

LC200n steel, when used in a folder, turns the handle a very nice green color. But, I noticed it doesn't do that in fixed blades.

[cycleguy]

Didn’t take to LC200N Mule while LC200N Salt 2 is a favorite. Not certain what this means, if anything at all.

CG

[cycleguy]

LC200n steel, when used in a folder, turns the handle a very nice green color. But, I noticed it doesn't do that in fixed blades.

Exactly

[The True North]

I think strength is important in folding knife steel. Toughness? Not so much.

[Barmoley]

As has already been said it is more of a use difference and just the reality of small blades vs large blades. With a small blade fixed or otherwise you have very little edge to work with. Due to this it makes sense to have high wear resistant steel to prolong the edge life. Sharpening a short edge is also easier, so you can get away with high wear steels since you need to remove a lot less material. In general smaller blades are not used in ways where high toughness is required either. You can use any type of steel in any knife, but some just make more sense given expected use scenarios.

[spydergoat]

Another steel quality I look at is stainlessness. Or "corrosion resistance." For a do-everything folder I like to maximize this because you never know what it will need to do. Food prep. Being carried outside in bad weather. Hiking or running or exercise. Also being closed in its handle, the folder has a lot of chances for corrision to build up. Fixed blades can be a bit easier to wipe down. Of course preferences vary, but I think a lotof people are comfortable with stainless pocket knives but will get a carbon steel for fixed blades.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Would Spyderco make blades with European 1.4116 or 1.4116N stainless steel?

[zhyla]

Would Spyderco make blades with European 1.4116 or 1.4116N stainless steel?

You want Spyderco to use worse steel than any steel they currently use?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Would Spyderco make blades with European 1.4116 or 1.4116N stainless steel?

You want Spyderco to use worse steel than any steel they currently use?

No. After looking at the info on that steel I have two questions about it. 1 Why are European knife makers making so many knives from it when they can use better alloys like N690 which they do? 2
Someone on a website claimed there is a 1.4116N with added nitrogen. Is that real?

3 do you think Spyderco should make more Sandvik steel knives?

[mikestp]

Depends on intended use.

If a folder is not built for hard use, then what benefits are you really getting from a super tough steel? Less edge damage? You can work that out with edge angles.

I don't have the experience to back up what I'm saying, just an observation from sources such as Larrins website and Cliff Stamp Youtube, so please view the following as a question not a statement:

Wouldn't managing poor toughness with and increased edge angle defeat the purpose of a high edge retention steel?
From Larrins graph going from 15dps to 22.5dps halves the edge retention.


If the ingredients for a stable low edge angle are hardness and toughness then presumably the steels that achieve both e.g. Cruwear, M4 , Magnacut etc run at their minimum stable angle could outperform the fragile edge retention kings run at their (higher) minimum angle? Depending on how much the increased toughness affects the minimum edge angle.

If you choose to run these "balanced" Steels at higher angles you still have acceptable edge retention but gain bonus resistance to edge damage caused by real world factors such as cutting dirty material (which these high edge retention steels seem to be vulnerable to) Refer Cliff Stamps criticism of 10V for context:

[zhyla]

Would Spyderco make blades with European 1.4116 or 1.4116N stainless steel?

You want Spyderco to use worse steel than any steel they currently use?

No. After looking at the info on that steel I have two questions about it. 1 Why are European knife makers making so many knives from it when they can use better alloys like N690 which they do? 2
Someone on a website claimed there is a 1.4116N with added nitrogen. Is that real?

3 do you think Spyderco should make more Sandvik steel knives?

You can re-read the thread you started on 1.4116:

viewtopic.php?t=84319