Takefu's "SPG STRIX"

[weeping minora]

Whilst we're fresh from Reveal 15's introduction of Takefu's VG XEOS, I've learned of another new addition to their line-up that they're calling SPG STRIX. STRIX stems from the words "STRONG MATRIX".

From the limited info that I've found, it was introduced sometime in the later months of 2023. There is no compositional disclosure from Takefu, same as is true of VG XEOS. It is marketed as a powdered stainless steel, able to achieve ~65rc, *whilst being easier to work with, and notably easier to sharpen and achieve "unsurpassed cutting sharpness" (*when compared to other stainless PM steels?). The goal was to create a stainless PM steel that behaves like a very high hardness carbon steel.. sounds a bit like a steel currently sweeping the market?

They're marketing an increase of attention to the microstructure of the steel via its composition, which as many of us have been informed of via the efforts and sharing from Shawn and Larrin, the microstructure is attributable to the heat treatment, and not merely based on knowing the composition alone. It sounds like they created the steel with a microstructure first mindset, which I find interesting and of which I believe is the next phase of steel 'evolution', at least as far as cutlery is concerned. I find it strange that Takefu are unwilling to publish composition, nonetheless.

Current cutlery climate being what it is, this leads to the question: is this perhaps the Japanese aimed equivalent, or competitor, to Magnacut, and, will we see a Mule Team in this steel, seeing as we're being treated to VG XEOS?

Perhaps a carrot you can throw our way, sal?

Link to Takefu's website regarding SPG STRIX: https://e-tokko.com/spgst.php?lang=en

[barnaclesonaboat]

It sounds like they created the steel with a microstructure first mindset, which I find interesting and of which I believe is the next phase of steel 'evolution', at least as far as cutlery is concerned.

This is an interesting development, indeed! I appreciate your alerting us all to the steel. While it is a little weird the composition isn't public knowledge yet, I did like the way they went about selling the material on their website by including images of etched samples, HT graphs, etc. Sure, it's promotional material from the producer, but still, at face value the presentation makes a more compelling case than a lot of steel info sheets.

I hope this does make it into the Mule Team lineup. In addition to general interest, with an apparently similar set of engineering goals/targets to Magnacut it would likely be very informative for Spyderco and the knife community alike to have some mule team-style testing of a similar recipe produced by a totally different manufacturer with their own HT, etc. This kind of opportunity for testing and comparison of some steels that seem similar on paper feels right in line with the general goals of the Mule Team program. My 2cents.

[Bolster]

It sounds like they created the steel with a microstructure first mindset, which I find interesting and of which I believe is the next phase of steel 'evolution', at least as far as cutlery is concerned.

Very interesting, thanks for the alert. "Microstructure first." To quote Jessica Simpson: "I totally don't know what that means, but I want it."

[weeping minora]

It sounds like they created the steel with a microstructure first mindset, which I find interesting and of which I believe is the next phase of steel 'evolution', at least as far as cutlery is concerned.

This is an interesting development, indeed! I appreciate your alerting us all to the steel. While it is a little weird the composition isn't public knowledge yet, I did like the way they went about selling the material on their website by including images of etched samples, HT graphs, etc. Sure, it's promotional material from the producer, but still, at face value the presentation makes a more compelling case than a lot of steel info sheets.

I hope this does make it into the Mule Team lineup. In addition to general interest, with an apparently similar set of engineering goals/targets to Magnacut it would likely be very informative for Spyderco and the knife community alike to have some mule team-style testing of a similar recipe produced by a totally different manufacturer with their own HT, etc. This kind of opportunity for testing and comparison of some steels that seem similar on paper feels right in line with the general goals of the Mule Team program. My 2cents.

You have to be in the know metallurgically to be able to discern the chemical composition datasheets. I've tried over time to discern compositions, but it can be challenging to remember just what each elemental % can mean for different steels. They don't always seem to differentiate in a linear way from steel to steel, which can make it more challenging. I agree that the metallography showing the microstructure was nice to see, even though we don't quite know exactly what we're looking at in terms of carbide content.

Takefu certainly sells the steel well, but I'd think that without the composition being listed, it will ultimately dissuade some interest. I absolutely agree that this would be a perfect candidate for the Mule Team!

[weeping minora]

It sounds like they created the steel with a microstructure first mindset, which I find interesting and of which I believe is the next phase of steel 'evolution', at least as far as cutlery is concerned.

Very interesting, thanks for the alert. "Microstructure first." To quote Jessica Simpson: "I totally don't know what that means, but I want it."

I have a feeling there's a bit of marketing at play here, or perhaps a language barrier discrepancy, but it's an interesting take on the marketing of this steel. Hopefully Miss Simpson can persuade Spyderco to get us a taste!

[Traditional.Sharpening]

This steel sounds like a good mix of attributes, would love to try some given an opportunity.

[bobartig]

Wait, there are modern steels where the manufacturer doesn't disclose their compositions? Is that normal? Are tool/knife manufacturers expected to purchase a steel composition without knowing what it is and make production productions out of it to sell? I didn't realize that was a thing.

[p_atrick]

Wait, there are modern steels where the manufacturer doesn't disclose their compositions? Is that normal? Are tool/knife manufacturers expected to purchase a steel composition without knowing what it is and make production productions out of it to sell? I didn't realize that was a thing.

VG XEOS is the same way. Spyderco has made an educated guess, but there is no official word of the composition. Knife maker Yu Kurosaki seems to be "all in" VG XEOS. Some other forums say that he will use VG XEOS to replace Hap40 (though the steels are nothing alike).

Is this normal? I don't think so, but Takefu is doing it lately. Not sure if there is a history of this from others.

[weeping minora]

Wait, there are modern steels where the manufacturer doesn't disclose their compositions? Is that normal? Are tool/knife manufacturers expected to purchase a steel composition without knowing what it is and make production productions out of it to sell? I didn't realize that was a thing.

I wouldn't say it is "normal". Certainly causes apprehension from the buyers point of view. Nonetheless, I'm still interested in this STRIX steel, and would purchase a couple Mules if Spyderco chooses to do a run.

[sal]

Thanx for the input, Minora,

We'll be looking into it. We're also looking into Hitachi's new Cobalt blade steel.

As far as disclosure, we've informed out steel vendors that we will analyze the Odd material and let our customers know what we find out and let them know that the information is not from the factory. We've explained that our customers want to know what it's made of and it's our obligation to tell them or we can't purchase the steel.

sal

[weeping minora]

Thanx for the input, Minora,

We'll be looking into it. We're also looking into Hitachi's new Cobalt blade steel.

As far as disclosure, we've informed out steel vendors that we will analyze the Odd material and let our customers know what we find out and let them know that the information is not from the factory. We've explained that our customers want to know what it's made of and it's our obligation to tell them or we can't purchase the steel.

sal

Thank you for the insight, sal. Glad to see you back on the forum.

I'm interested to hear more about this new Cobalt steel that Hitachi has to offer.

[sal]

Hi Weepng Minora,

I just heard that the Hitachi steel was made exclusively for a scissor company and was not available to anyone else.

sal

[weeping minora]

Hi Weepng Minora,

I just heard that the Hitachi steel was made exclusively for a scissor company and was not available to anyone else.

sal

Sal,

That's a bummer. Would this happen to be Hitachi's ATS-314?

[sal]

Yes. Hitachi's 314, which I also heard is very similar to their ATS-34. The scissors that I saw for sale using the material were very expensive.

I heard that Larrin thought the Takefu chemistry didn't make sense. In fact I heard that he said that Takefu must not have had any metallurgists on staff. I've been using the VG-XEOS Mule Team at home for a while. It does get very sharp pretty easily. I guess we'll keep using it and "hide-n-watch" to see what others think?

sal

[weeping minora]

Yes. Hitachi's 314, which I also heard is very similar to their ATS-34. The scissors that I saw for sale using the material were very expensive.

I heard that Larrin thought the Takefu chemistry didn't make sense. In fact I heard that he said that Takefu must not have had any metallurgists on staff. I've been using the VG-XEOS Mule Team at home for a while. It does get very sharp pretty easily. I guess we'll keep using it and "hide-n-watch" to see what others think?

sal

ATS-314 is very similar to ATS-34, indeed. There are incredibly expensive scissors made of ATS-314, to be sure!

ATS-314 is also incredibly similar to the composition of VG-10. Minus the Manganese(?), add a little more Chrome, and you have ATS-314.

https://zknives.com/knives/steels/steel ... hrn=1&gm=0

I know somehow, Jon Broida of Japanese Knife Imports had a run of knives ran in ATS-314, the Fukakuryu series made by Ryusen Hamono. Allegedly easier to sharpen, and less brittle than VG-10. They seem to be very well received and well liked. There may be some way to get the steel to be produced for knives, it just sounds like you need the right connections.

[sal]

We'll keep working on it. I'm guessing there would be a greater demand for kitchen knives than folders. And as you mention, I'm sure that "Who you know" helps? Also, getting short runs for Mule Teams is not a big enough order to command a lot of attention. My "pitch" that "if they like it, we'll buy more", works sometimes.

Blade steels seem to be having a bit of a Renaissance recently, which I guess is good. There sure seems to be a lot of "Salt" type steels coming out as well.

sal

[weeping minora]

We'll keep working on it. I'm guessing there would be a greater demand for kitchen knives than folders. And as you mention, I'm sure that "Who you know" helps? Also, getting short runs for Mule Teams is not a big enough order to command a lot of attention. My "pitch" that "if they like it, we'll buy more", works sometimes.

Blade steels seem to be having a bit of a Renaissance recently, which I guess is good. There sure seems to be a lot of "Salt" type steels coming out as well.

sal

Sounds good, Sal. I appreciate the discussion, consideration, and efforts in trying to get these hard to acquire steels into the hands of those of us interested.