Batoning Enuff 2?

[AutoRock]

After some very pleasant experiences with Spyderco folders, I am considering getting a Spydie fixed blade for outdoor use. Out of the current models, Enuff 2 seems to fit my preferences the most. It would be nice to try a more performance-oriented knife after my usual fare - scandi grinds, thicker and softer blades, etc..

The overall profile of the Enuff 2 makes it look like a great all-around tool - and it happens to remind me of my Native 5. I’m mostly concerned with cutting performance, where I expect Enuff 2 to very well. However, I also regularly do a bit of light batoning with my outdoor knives - usually either to make some kindling, or to split a section of wood before carving it. So I expect all my outdoor blades to be able to handle some batoning.

I’m a bit on the fence with the Enuff 2. On the one hand, it’s only 3mm thick, and both VG10 and K390 are not particularly tough steels. I have no direct experience with either VG10 or K390, but the toughness ratings on Larrin Thomas’s site place them pretty low. Oddly enough, K390 is actually ranked higher than VG10 in his tests - perhaps due to finer microstructure? While I have used VG10 in Fallkniven knives, they have much thicker, laminated blades, so I can’t really compare them to a thinner, monosteel VG10 blade on the Enuff 2.

On the other hand, I’ve done plenty of batoning with a 3.2mm Mora made out of (as far as I know) 1095 - which also scores pretty low on toughness in the same KnifeSteelNerds tests. The Mora never had any issues with reasonably straight-grained wood 2-3 inches in diameter.

I realize Enuff 2 hasn’t been out for that long, but has anyone had any experiences doing light batoning with Spyderco blades in similar steels/geometry?

[Giygas]

I don't have any experience with the Enuff 2, but I baton with my k390 Police 4 LE all the time.

[JoviAl]

After some very pleasant experiences with Spyderco folders, I am considering getting a Spydie fixed blade for outdoor use. Out of the current models, Enuff 2 seems to fit my preferences the most. It would be nice to try a more performance-oriented knife after my usual fare - scandi grinds, thicker and softer blades, etc..

The overall profile of the Enuff 2 makes it look like a great all-around tool - and it happens to remind me of my Native 5. I’m mostly concerned with cutting performance, where I expect Enuff 2 to very well. However, I also regularly do a bit of light batoning with my outdoor knives - usually either to make some kindling, or to split a section of wood before carving it. So I expect all my outdoor blades to be able to handle some batoning.

I’m a bit on the fence with the Enuff 2. On the one hand, it’s only 3mm thick, and both VG10 and K390 are not particularly tough steels. I have no direct experience with either VG10 or K390, but the toughness ratings on Larrin Thomas’s site place them pretty low. Oddly enough, K390 is actually ranked higher than VG10 in his tests - perhaps due to finer microstructure? While I have used VG10 in Fallkniven knives, they have much thicker, laminated blades, so I can’t really compare them to a thinner, monosteel VG10 blade on the Enuff 2.

On the other hand, I’ve done plenty of batoning with a 3.2mm Mora made out of (as far as I know) 1095 - which also scores pretty low on toughness in the same KnifeSteelNerds tests. The Mora never had any issues with reasonably straight-grained wood 2-3 inches in diameter.

I realize Enuff 2 hasn’t been out for that long, but has anyone had any experiences doing light batoning with Spyderco blades in similar steels/geometry?

I regularly baton with my Magnacut and T15 mules without any dramas. YMMV - I match the tool to the task, so usually softwoods like pine and I don’t wail on it with a block hammer or anything, but I’ve never had any issues.

[dlum1]

I regularly baton corner pieces off of firewood at campsites to make some kindling with an m390 bradford guardian. If it's the geometry that cuts, it's also the geometry that determines deformation (whether chipping or rolling). M390 is not a tough steel but is sufficient for my tasks. With any steel, if you experience some rolling or chipping, make the edge angle a little more obtuse. I freehand sharpen, so I've likely convexed the edge and made it more stable. K390 would also work well in this role -- likely even at more acute edge angles.

[Ferruginous]

I would only do it in an emergency, but I would expect it to hold up so long as I kept the material being split away from the handle.

I used to baton with a knife for fun (as opposed to necessity). After damaging a couple of knives, which will happen eventually if you do it often enough. The knives that failed were 3/16" and 1/4" 3V and A2 btw. One broke under the handle and one lost a quarter sized half-circle from the cutting edge. I switched to a small axe or hatchet for splitting wood.

As a teenager I learned to whittle a wedge and use that to split logs that I had carved a notch into the top of. When the wedge wears out or breaks, use your slipjoint to make another one. It worked surprisingly well but was obviously slower than using a fixed blade which is slower than a hatchet.

[vivi]

I've batoned with VG10 Perrins (street bowie and street beat) for over a decade. No issues. With how short the enuff 2 is its not like you'll be splitting huge logs in half anyways. I wouldn't think twice about it.

[Wartstein]

Full tang, 3 mm stock, pretty short blade: Sure you can baton it.

Imo for splitting smaller diameter wood / branches and just making some kindling batoning a knife is more comvenient than using a hatchet.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have found vg10 to be durable. I abused a Schempp Rock for quite a while. I put a slight bend in it at some point but it never broke.

You would only be making kindling with something the size of the Enuff2 so you should be fine. Just don’t try to force it through any tough knots.

I use a small twig stove when camping and have made fuel for it with all sorts of knives including folders.

[AutoRock]

Thank you for your feedback, folks. I'm glad to hear that I am overthinking it. I agree that there are limits to what a 4" blade can split, and kindling really is it. I also find that sometimes a thin blade works better for making fine kindling than an axe or a hatchet. There's more control when making longer, thinner splits - e.g. the sort I feed into my Kelly Kettle.

The question I'll need to answer for myself will be VG10 vs K390. VG10 is a more sensible, maintenance-free choice. However, I have no knives in anything resembling K390, so I'm really curious to see what this steel can do. Plus those blue handle scales just happen to look nice.

[Bolster]

Did anyone welcome you to the forum, AutoRock? If not...welcome! Thanks for an interesting question.

[sal]

Hi AutoRock,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[vivi]

Thank you for your feedback, folks. I'm glad to hear that I am overthinking it. I agree that there are limits to what a 4" blade can split, and kindling really is it. I also find that sometimes a thin blade works better for making fine kindling than an axe or a hatchet. There's more control when making longer, thinner splits - e.g. the sort I feed into my Kelly Kettle.

The question I'll need to answer for myself will be VG10 vs K390. VG10 is a more sensible, maintenance-free choice. However, I have no knives in anything resembling K390, so I'm really curious to see what this steel can do. Plus those blue handle scales just happen to look nice.

If I were buying an enuff 2 I'd go with VG10. Here's my thoughts as to why:

VG10 Pros

+ More corrosion resistant
+ Cheaper
+ Easier to sharpen
+ I believe (could be wrong), overall toughness is higher


K390 Pros:

+ Superior edge holding (wood, cordage and food are what I'd mostly use this sort of knife on, none of these materials really need crazy good edge holding.)
+ I believe edge stability is higher.


I've used VG10 in the woods for years like I said and its a proven performer. No corrosion issues, simple to field sharpen if need be, tough enough to handle light batoning / chopping / prying without a sweat.

The main advantage of K390 over VG10 is edge holding. Now how much this matters for you depends on your use. For me this knife would fill a general purpose woods knife role. It'd come along on hikes, camping trips, etc., and would do minor food prep, help prep fires and cut misc things like cordage.


I know from experience low edge holding steels like 440C, BD1, SK5, 1095 etc. fill those role for me. I like steels that are quick and easy to sharpen and don't require a ton of care or maintenance. So VG10 fits the bill for me, though for car camping style trips I like taking a carbon steel model and working on developing a nice patina.

[AutoRock]

Thank you, Bolster and Sal!

When I was making the post, I was a bit worried that it would trigger an overly spirited discussion of pros and cons of batoning, as has been known to happen in Internet discussions from time to time. I very much appreciate everyone's responses and shared experiences.

[AutoRock]

If I were buying an enuff 2 I'd go with VG10. Here's my thoughts as to why:

<snip>

Thank you for the detailed breakdown, vivi.

I was initially leaning towards K390 because I was thinking of killing two birds with one stone: first fixed Spydie, first fancy tool steel, once purchase. Perfect!

But in terms of practicality, Enuff 2 in VG10 really does make more sense - particularly on multi-day or multi-week canoe trips, which is where I would probably use it the most. I've used non-stainless knives a lot, including on river trips with a lot of white water, but they do require a lot more attention (especially if they are stuck for days in a soggy leather sheath). It is nice to just focus on the trip, rather than tool maintenance.

I'm really curious about K390 is a "let's see what this baby can do!" sense, but I think a Dragonfly or a Delica might be a better K390 test platform for me. Those blue handles sure are purdy, though...

[JoviAl]

If I were buying an enuff 2 I'd go with VG10. Here's my thoughts as to why:

<snip>

Thank you for the detailed breakdown, vivi.

I was initially leaning towards K390 because I was thinking of killing two birds with one stone: first fixed Spydie, first fancy tool steel, once purchase. Perfect!

But in terms of practicality, Enuff 2 in VG10 really does make more sense - particularly on multi-day or multi-week canoe trips, which is where I would probably use it the most. I've used non-stainless knives a lot, including on river trips with a lot of white water, but they do require a lot more attention (especially if they are stuck for days in a soggy leather sheath). It is nice to just focus on the trip, rather than tool maintenance.

I'm really curious about K390 is a "let's see what this baby can do!" sense, but I think a Dragonfly or a Delica might be a better K390 test platform for me. Those blue handles sure are purdy, though...

Vivi talks a lot of good sense. If you are looking to try K390 then the Wharncliffe dragonfly is an outstanding platform for it - it’s the kind of small, pocketable knife that benefits from a steel with a long lasting edge. It would make an excellent companion to a VG10 Enuff 2, weighs virtually nothing, and both combined can be had for around the price of one k390 Enuff 2.

[Wartstein]

Vivi talks a lot of good sense. If you are looking to try K390 then the Wharncliffe dragonfly is an outstanding platform for it - it’s the kind of small, pocketable knife that benefits from a steel with a long lasting edge. It would make an excellent companion to a VG10 Enuff 2, weighs virtually nothing, and both combined can be had for around the price of one k390 Enuff 2.

This sounds like very good advise!

Though I personally would grab the K390 wharnie Delica (as long as it is still available) instead of the DFly. More versatile due to the longer blade and larger handle while still being a small, slim very pocketable folder imo.

Just my 2 c of course.

[JoviAl]

Vivi talks a lot of good sense. If you are looking to try K390 then the Wharncliffe dragonfly is an outstanding platform for it - it’s the kind of small, pocketable knife that benefits from a steel with a long lasting edge. It would make an excellent companion to a VG10 Enuff 2, weighs virtually nothing, and both combined can be had for around the price of one k390 Enuff 2.

This sounds like very good advise!

Though I personally would grab the K390 wharnie Delica (as long as it is still available) instead of the DFly. More versatile due to the longer blade and larger handle while still being a small, slim very pocketable folder imo.

Just my 2 c of course.

I think we both know the answer to this Dragonfly vs Delica conundrum - BUY BOTH!

[AutoRock]

I think we both know the answer to this Dragonfly vs Delica conundrum - BUY BOTH!

Isn’t that the correct solution to pretty much any Spyderco conundrum?

[JoviAl]

I think we both know the answer to this Dragonfly vs Delica conundrum - BUY BOTH!

Isn’t that the correct solution to pretty much any Spyderco conundrum?

In a word…yes.

[kerrcobra]

I'm going to second the suggestion that a K390 Delica (regular version, not that wharncliffe nonsense :p ) is the perfect companion. Although, I went with the k390 Enuff 2 as well, and I love it. I have no question about its capability to do what I need it to which includes some light batoning (one typically only batons 2-3" logs/sticks with a 4" blade anyway). I don't sweat fluoroantimonic acid like Vivi does, so corrosion is less of a concern; however, I can also attest to the strength of my other VG10 spydies like my street beat or street bowie or my Moran trailing point.