Maxamet Native 5 lock

[Ramonade]

Hi ! I wanted to ask something to people using their Maxamet Native 5 LW a lot.
Since I've had mine, I've been using it for every cardboard cutting (when it wasn't the Maxamet Para 3) around the house. I've opened and closed it many times. Certainly a thousand cycles or more.

For a couple months, I've had severe lock stick from time to time, and I didn't know why. There is also some vertical play.
During maintenance today, I've noticed that the blade really dug a groove in the lockbar, wich is obviously the cause.

It's a subject that is quite funny since it's been talked about by both Eric and Sal Glesser during the past months. They both mentionned how difficult it can be to find 2 steels that can work without both getting damaged, or one getting damaged too much before tens of thousands openings and closings.
I bet it was hard to find something that'd work with Maxamet !


Do people using the same model have had a similar experience? I know Maxamet is a duper hard PM tool steel, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's just the way it is.
However, if I'm an isolated data point, maybe a new lockbar could resolve this? I'd be interested to know!

I tried to take some pictures of the lockbar :

[JRinFL]

I wondered how lock faces would handle these super aggressive steels and now we know. Not so well after all. CRKs ceramic lock interface is looking quite appropriate now.

[Crox]

Wow that is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

I assume something like that would be covered by warranty?

It really makes me think the detent could wear fast on a Maxamet Para 3 or similar - not much metal there by comparison.

[Ramonade]

Wow that is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

I assume something like that would be covered by warranty?

It really makes me think the detent could wear fast on a Maxamet Para 3 or similar - not much metal there by comparison.

I do not know, I did not want to annoy Spyderco's Customer Service before I knew if this was a recurrent issue. This N5 LW Maxamet is a knife I did an acidwash on. If Spyderco were to say no to sending me a new lockbar intended for this model, I would understand.

As for the Para 3, the lock engagement still hasn't moved on mine. Maybe 5 to 10% like on any compression lock or linerlock after some time of use. As far as the detent ball is concerned, I'm not worried since I have like 20 compatibles ceramic detent balls in stock if there ever is the need ! (To reinsure you, the ball is still round on the point of contact, or at least as far as my eyes can see)

[Fly Fishing Rick]

Wow that is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

I assume something like that would be covered by warranty?

It really makes me think the detent could wear fast on a Maxamet Para 3 or similar - not much metal there by comparison.

I think most Spyderco knives have ceramic detent balls now, at least my Sage 1 and Smock both do. I didn't think to check my CruWear PM2 when I had it apart but I assume it does too.

[Donut]

That looks like rubbing when the blade is rotating around the pivot. There is minimal wear, where pressure is applied when the lock is engaged.

I think people use a pencil when a lock sticks.

*edit* This is the face that I believe would cause your lock to stick. This is the only photo you posted of it and it's an extreme angle, so tough to tell.

[Ramonade]

That looks like rubbing when the blade is rotating around the pivot. There is minimal wear, where pressure is applied when the lock is engaged.

I think people use a pencil when a lock sticks.

*edit* This is the face that I believe would cause your lock to stick. This is the only photo you posted of it and it's an extreme angle, so tough to tell.

Well the other angles are not showing a reflection on the corner that is up of that face. There is a pretty substantial part of that corner missing and this seemed to be the problem. I'll try some pencil, but usually this trick is for "not well ajusted yet" lock interfaces, now we can say that it's pretty well adjusted to the blade

[Crox]

Wow that is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

I assume something like that would be covered by warranty?

It really makes me think the detent could wear fast on a Maxamet Para 3 or similar - not much metal there by comparison.

I do not know, I did not want to annoy Spyderco's Customer Service before I knew if this was a recurrent issue. This N5 LW Maxamet is a knife I did an acidwash on. If Spyderco were to say no to sending me a new lockbar intended for this model, I would understand.

As for the Para 3, the lock engagement still hasn't moved on mine. Maybe 5 to 10% like on any compression lock or linerlock after some time of use. As far as the detent ball is concerned, I'm not worried since I have like 20 compatibles ceramic detent balls in stock if there ever is the need ! (To reinsure you, the ball is still round on the point of contact, or at least as far as my eyes can see)

That’s good. Maybe it’s a pressure thing with the Native. Back lock certainly presses harder.

I didn’t know one could swap detent balls. I’m going to look into that.

[Crox]

Wow that is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

I assume something like that would be covered by warranty?

It really makes me think the detent could wear fast on a Maxamet Para 3 or similar - not much metal there by comparison.

I think most Spyderco knives have ceramic detent balls now, at least my Sage 1 and Smock both do. I didn't think to check my CruWear PM2 when I had it apart but I assume it does too.

I thought US made were not - not sure though. My Kapara is ceramic.

[Brock O Lee]

Well the other angles are not showing a reflection on the corner that is up of that face. There is a pretty substantial part of that corner missing and this seemed to be the problem.

I second this opinion as the cause for your lock rock. The integrity of that corner is crucial for proper lockup. Is there any wear on the blade for the mating corner? It is Maxamet so I assume not...

Picture here:
https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/ ... echanisms/

The Manix with its ball bearing lock would handle this wear much better.

[Fly Fishing Rick]

Wow that is pretty neat. Thanks for sharing.

I assume something like that would be covered by warranty?

It really makes me think the detent could wear fast on a Maxamet Para 3 or similar - not much metal there by comparison.

I think most Spyderco knives have ceramic detent balls now, at least my Sage 1 and Smock both do. I didn't think to check my CruWear PM2 when I had it apart but I assume it does too.

I thought US made were not - not sure though. My Kapara is ceramic.

That very well could be, I really should have said I assume instead of I think since I only have 1 Golden model and I didn't think to check it.

[Donut]

Well the other angles are not showing a reflection on the corner that is up of that face. There is a pretty substantial part of that corner missing and this seemed to be the problem. I'll try some pencil, but usually this trick is for "not well ajusted yet" lock interfaces, now we can say that it's pretty well adjusted to the blade

I guess I was thinking (and not saying) that the corner doesn't look like wear, it looks like it came from the factory like that.

[Ramonade]

Oh, well if it came that way I think I would've experienced the problem from the start. It's so polished that friction with the blade tang seemed like the only possible cause.

What I wonder is, would a new lockbar fix this issue ? I live in France and simply requesting a lockbar would be a hundred times easier than trying to ship the knife to the USA, it'd cost very much.

[PStone]

Hey Ramonade. Sorry for your issue you’re having. Is there any wear spots on the blade tang? If not, you could use a marker to color both surfaces of the lock interface, reassemble, then cycle the open/close action several times. When you take it apart, it should show you exactly where you’re getting contact between the surfaces. The marker will rub off on those areas. Could help you narrow down exactly where on the surface the stick is coming from. My guess is a small burr that you can’t see with your naked eye on the lockbar from the wear of the harder blade against it.

[Enactive]

Of course it looks like abrasive wear from the cam of the tang...

Any metallurgists or knowledgeable folks:

Is some of the other wear/ damage possibly galling or adhesive wear?

[Guts]

Interesting. Haven't used my Maxamet Native 5 to that extent just yet, but I'll have to keep an eye on the lock bar wear from now on. I do have a Manix 2 in Maxamet as well so that'll be interesting to see which one wears out faster (if at all).

[Ramonade]

Hey Ramonade. Sorry for your issue you’re having. Is there any wear spots on the blade tang? If not, you could use a marker to color both surfaces of the lock interface, reassemble, then cycle the open/close action several times. When you take it apart, it should show you exactly where you’re getting contact between the surfaces. The marker will rub off on those areas. Could help you narrow down exactly where on the surface the stick is coming from. My guess is a small burr that you can’t see with your naked eye on the lockbar from the wear of the harder blade against it.

Well, i said lockstick cause it's stuck, but I had to use both thumbs several times to unlock the blade. This is more than lockstick in my opinion. The removed material seems to make the lock engagement deeper, and it wasn't made for that

Here's some additionnal pictures :

The lock engagement now :


(We can see that the lockbar goes further, before it was flush)

Photos of the state of the blade tang

(I compared with my other Maxamet N5 LW (wich is still new in box),the blade tang is the same on the new one)

I covered the lock interfaces with sharpie



The results :





We can see that that the blade tang really only hits where a groove has been dug on the lockbar, even the curve of the blade tang still has sharpie both up and down along the curve.

[Brock O Lee]

Thanks, those are insightful pictures.

[PStone]

Great pictures Ramonade! I did the same on my end, but not as good pics.

Front face of blade tang cutout:

Rear face:


Lockbar front face:

Rear/under:


I don’t see anything majorly different other than a bit more wear on the rear/under of your lockbar. I think yours is actually cleaner/crisper looking than mine. But after playing around with mine I think your stick/seize is coming from the front face of the lockbar against the front blade tang cutout face.


Wether or not the difference in the corner of the lockbar is contributing or not I’m not sure. It could be allowing the “hammer” to seat deeper or at a different angle than it should be. Have you tried the graphite on those two surfaces?

[Ramonade]

There is a big difference between both of our lockbars ! the polished surface are at the same spot for sure, but I miss half a millimeter of material on the corner of the hammer making contact with the blade tang.
It's hard to see in pictures, but it is not minimal wear ^^
I have a S110V N5 LW I used as much, and the lockbar doesn't show any special sign of wear either.

I tried the graphite but as I thought it doesn't help. The blade tang being digging into the lockbar makes for poor action and a deeper lock engagement wich blocks the lockbar in locked position half of the time