Thinner blade question

[Silcox]

Thin blade stocks are laser beams through whatever they cut.

I don't see a lot of knife makers creating thin blades (Sandrin Knives being the only one). I'm just wondering why? We have the quality metal now to reduce the problems that may come along with thinner shapes, and it's blade stock would allow for further penetration because there would be less friction to stop or impede the blade. As an example, I recall cutting a watermelon with a PM2 (and PM3) and you'll find that the watermelon immediately cracks, whereas the Police 4 slides in better (to a certain point) and is more controllable.

Just a layman wondering

Please note, that I'm sure it's a stupid question, just asking in good faith

Cheers
Travis
(daily carry is usually Police 4 w/ the occasional PM2, Yojumbo alternative switch outs)

[Fly Fishing Rick]

My guess is that most of the most common knives we see are intended for edc carry and not everyone's edc tasks can be handled by thin blade stock. I think you would see a lot more people with broken tips and damaged edges if the majority were suddenly carrying a razor thin blade as their primary knife. This is just an educated guess on my part, there may be and probably are other reasons as well.

[Wartstein]

100 % with you!

From my experience people underestimate what thinner, especially a bit taller leaf shape (for the a bit stronger tip by geometry) blades can take... perhaps because many never actually try.
[Edit to add: And the thinner stock is one aspect (of several) of better slicing performance of course)

Of course blade shape/tallness, thickness behind the edge, edge angle, taperimg, steel type and so on play an important role too, but I really beat on my ffg 3mm Enduras with no problems.

And the Chap FRN with its 2mm blade is currently my personal favorite small hard use folder. Also no problems, the blade has the perfect blend between sliciness and robustness.

See also this thread I started once viewtopic.php?t=85342#p1377379

What I am not a real fan of: Small folders, with fat bladestock (over 3mm), but still fragile tip...
Started a thread about this too once viewtopic.php?t=87156#p1437123

[Wartstein]

...and btw.: Not a stupid question at all, but for me a very sensible one!

[Evil D]

A couple reasons you don't see them:

1. The tactical knife trend. For the last 20 years if a knife can't pry a door open or cut open a can of soup it isn't worth carrying. People became obsessed with using a knife for every other task except cutting stuff and they got thicker because of it.

2. Warranty safety, I think companies began overbuilding them to make them less likely to fail and look bad for the company.

3. Lock face geometry, it's easier to make a compression lock with a 4mm blade than with a 2mm blade because the thinner the blade is, the more precise the lock has to be and the less it can travel.

4. Thicker blade stock can be ground thinner, but the same strength concerns still apply, and could potentially increase cost due to extra wear on belts/machines doing the extra grinding. This is also a waste of material in a way.

[JRinFL]

I like a good thin blade. I also recognize that lots of old timers had multi-blade pocket knives with one or more snapped blades. Most companies and most users will give up some slicing efficiency to gain some durability. The TEOTWAWKI knife trend did go to absurd levels however.

David's post above is excellent.

[Fly Fishing Rick]

I also have to agree that David's response makes a lot more sense than my guess, agree 100% :)

[p_atrick]

4. Thicker blade stock can be ground thinner, but the same strength concerns still apply, and could potentially increase cost due to extra wear on belts/machines doing the extra grinding. This is also a waste of material in a way.

If you ever check out Triple B's Instagram page, he used to post a pile of used belts that were consumed in making a single, thin knife. Of course it was something like Rex 121 at a very high hardness. I'm sure a large company operates differently than a custom maker, but, as a layman, there's so much to this that I don't really understand.

[Evil D]

4. Thicker blade stock can be ground thinner, but the same strength concerns still apply, and could potentially increase cost due to extra wear on belts/machines doing the extra grinding. This is also a waste of material in a way.

If you ever check out Triple B's Instagram page, he used to post a pile of used belts that were consumed in making a single, thin knife. Of course it was something like Rex 121 at a very high hardness. I'm sure a large company operates differently than a custom maker, but, as a layman, there's so much to this that I don't really understand.

I even experience this on a much much smaller level when I'm modifying a blade with my Dremel, I'll wear out sandpaper barrels quicker on some steels. There are a lot of small things that add up that people don't always consider.

[Danke]

All them paint cans ain't gonna open themselves.

No seriously people are dumb, like serious panicky animal dumb. I can't count the number of questions from people who want to use a $1000.00 folder for both IG clout and HVAC or the electrical trade. How about about tinsnips or wire strippers instead? Even when they do survive that they pass it over to the mobile sharpening van to remove 50% of the bevel.

[Wartstein]

A couple reasons you don't see them:

1. The tactical knife trend. For the last 20 years if a knife can't pry a door open or cut open a can of soup it isn't worth carrying. People became obsessed with using a knife for every other task except cutting stuff and they got thicker because of it.

2. Warranty safety, I think companies began overbuilding them to make them less likely to fail and look bad for the company.

.....

Very good points (as usual)!

Especially 1.) and 2.) are probably and sadly pretty important these days imo...

There ARE those youtube "reviewers" and "testers" who of course can invent completely irrelevant and unrealistic tasks (when it comes to use of FOLDERS!) that will break a thinner blade earlier than a thicker one (Probably anywhere else the same on social media, but I can´t tell cause I´ve never been on "insta-book and face-gram" )

And if this happens (the thinner blade breaks in a task practically no one ever would use their folders for), this sheds a bad light on a folder that in reality might be a great, reliable and even pretty (folder-)hard use cutting tool...

If I had the money and additionally the world would not face bigger problems, I´d really like to send out like 20 Chap FRNS to randomly chosen Regulars and real knife users here and ask them to use that model for the hardest hard use task they REALLY use any Spydie they own for - and look if a blade like the Chaps (thin,, but short, pretty tall and not too pointy tip) could take it or not.
In MY use 2mm is strong enough for anything I throw on a Chap blade, and that is a lot
I´d really be interested what would be the results of a broader test. Actually for me momentarily one of the things that interest me most when it comes to Spydies: How thick does blade stock realistically need to be, just and solely when it comes to enough strength for "folder hard use". And where IS the perfect blend between "sliciness and sturdiness" for the average guy (and not for me as an individual) just concerning strength of a blade.

/ Now, of course a thicker blade still has other advantages - for example it is more comfortable to put a finger on the (thicker) spine when really bearing down on the knife.

[TkoK83Spy]

If you have interest in some thin stock Spyderco knives, the Delica, UKPK, Chaparral, Watu and Centofante have always stood out to me (of knives I've actually tried myself)

[Evil D]

They both have their uses. I still enjoy a big beefy slab of steel, I have a fascination with folders that push the limits and attempt to be as strong as a fixed blade, but the trade off is of course that they're not as efficient in slicing so it's all what you plan to do with the knife.

[z1r]

If you have interest in some thin stock Spyderco knives, the Delica, UKPK, Chaparral, Watu and Centofante have always stood out to me (of knives I've actually tried myself)

We all know about Chaparral, but agree that the Centofante has a surprisingly good blade! Another that I personally like is the Spy-DK. I also like that the DK blade is not so tall.

[VooDooChild]

Yeah, a pocket knife has become a generalised tool, etc.

I have seen plenty of broken and bent knives with thin blade stock. I guess its always a balancing act.

[z1r]

I've seen a good many broken and bent tips on thick blades as well.

I have to admit that because of the bevel on the top of the blade, I thought the DF2 had a thinner blade. Found out the first time I was cutting up an apple. A 2mm DF2 for fruit would be sweet.

[Evil D]

I know I'm not the only guy who grew up with Case and Buck knives and snapped blades off. Back before multitools it was way more of an issue, because your knife may have been the only tool you had on you and whatever the task was it was going to get done one way or another. These days if you're actually at work or something and need to pry or need a screwdriver there's no reason to not carry a multitool, there are so many options that everyone can find one that suits their needs and then your knife can be just a cutting tool. I only ever worry about how aggressive I get when cutting stuff because even that does tend to lean towards hard use at times and if I actually used the right tool for the job every time I'd need to carry a tool chest on my back.

[Evil D]

I've seen a good many broken and bent tips on thick blades as well.

I think this comes from a false sense of confidence in the knife not failing because "it's hard use bro, I bought a Strider/Hinderer/Medford/whatever and it's a tank so now I can do this stupid unrealistic task because it's bomb proof" but even steel has it's limits. I love the idea of a pocket knife that can do anything but I do start to feel stupid when I damage an expensive knife doing something that a $5 Harbor Freight pry bar could have done.

[JRinFL]

I did it myself (using the wrong tool for the job) the other day. I used my Polestar to cut through some NM cable because it was very hot, I was exhausted, and the Polestar is what I had on me. Stuff happens.

[ZrowsN1s]

There should be a thinned out "Performance" Delica in VG-10 in the works. It's been discussed in a few threads. This is the original thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79799