Falling out of love with serrations

[vivi]

For a while there I carried SE every day. Loved it.

Since switching my PE knives from 1000+ grit to 200-300 grit, I've stopped loving it.

I carry SE from time to time as a way to check my own biases and see if I'm missing something.

I like how thin they come ground from factory. And that's about it these days.

Off the top of my head I can't think of a cutting job that I'd prefer to use a SE knife for instead of a coarsely edged PE knife.

Those coarse PE edges seem to have all the advantages and none of the drawbacks.

They grab materials and don't slip around at all like SE, but there's no snagging.

Repairing a damaged edge is so much easier, as is finding a wide variety of abrasives to use.

I used to hate SE and only carry PE. Then a Pacific Salt 1 SE opened my eyes and I was more 50/50 on what I'd carry. Now I find myself wanting to carry PE again every day.

[sethwm]

[sethwm]

Since switching my PE knives from 1000+ grit to 200-300 grit, I've stopped loving it.

Remind me, how do you strop after… What material and compound?

[metaphoricalsimile]

Since switching my PE knives from 1000+ grit to 200-300 grit, I've stopped loving it.

Remind me, how do you strop after… What material and compound?

With the stubble on his chin.

[RustyIron]

Falling out of love with serrations

Who ARE you and what did you do with our friend Vivi?!!!

Mark my words, you'd better return him unharmed, or we will hunt you down!

We have razor sharp blades sharpened to 80 grit,
and if we don't get him back NOW, you'll be sorry... VERY sorry!

[VooDooChild]

There are plenty of things I prefer plain edge over serrations for.

But serrations are always going to outcut pe if you just need to make 1 thing 2 things. So for an emergency knife or backup knife I still prefer serrations.

[vivi]

But serrations are always going to outcut pe if you just need to make 1 thing 2 things. So for an emergency knife or backup knife I still prefer serrations.

I'm not so sure about that. My SE Pacifics get hung up on certain materials my PE don't.

[Evil D]

But now you've also traded off high sharpness push cutting. I guess it all comes down to preferences and the types of things you cut the most. You can do the same thing with low grit edges on serrations if you wanted to. You can apply the exact same edge finish to both SE and PE and in the end serrations will have advantages in many situations due to their shape.


I can't remember the last time one of my SE knives snagged something but I can tell you all about the last time I had PE slip off and fail to cut something, it happened last Tuesday about a dozen times cutting weeds and saplings before I dropped my mule and pulled out my Autonomy and laughed at the difference. I do think lowering the edge geometry would improve my mule's performance, but it will never pull cut as aggressively as my serrations do. Not everything can be compensated for with edge finishes, otherwise bread knives wouldn't exist. To me it's the same sort of detail as blade shapes and blade angles and how those effect performance. In the same way that a hawkbill will always pull cut better than a clip point (assuming both have the same blade/edge thickness and same edge finish and all that), serrations will always cut more aggressively than plain edge when all other things are equal because the shape itself makes it cut more aggressively. This isn't my opinion, this is physics. Serrations focus the force of a cut into areas of high pressure.

[ladybug93]

this is why i always carry both instead of trying to force either to do everything.

[Wandering_About]

I've been playing with a serrated UKPK Salt for the past few weeks. Have never been a big fan of serrations, and to be honest I'm still not a huge fan. They work well for me for certain things, but overall I prefer a plain edge better. Maybe it's because that's what I'm most used to. There are certainly other practical reasons also.

One thing I've noticed, and I've noticed this before with Spyderco serrations, is that the edge takes damage much more easily than even my thinned out plain edges. It's been the same for me with 8Cr and VG-10. Both chips and rolls (mostly rolls on this UKPK Salt). At this point sharpening SE is a pain for me, mainly due to lack of experience.

Won't say there's no place for SE, but I'm still a bit meh on it. Especially once you get away from factory plain edges and start experimenting with other angles and grits, PE becomes a whole different world. It's still giving me all the performance I want.

[James Y]

I like both, but use PE and SE for different things. It depends on the task for me.

Last week, I was doing some yard work and cutting some overhanging vines. I tried using my Military for the task and it slid off several times. I used one of my usual yard work knives, my SE Tasman, and the task was easy as pie. My other yard work knife is a SE Pacific Salt 1.

And yet there are other tasks i much prefer using the Military for over those two knives. It all depends.

Jim

[huyfishin]

this is why i always carry both instead of trying to force either to do everything.

I like your style

[prndltech]

Preferences do change…

[elena86]

Good luck cutting with a PE what I cut with my Jumpmaster 2 or even with my SE Pac Salt in H1 at peak sharpness. The only task I can't accomplish fast enough with my spyderedges (sharpened my style) is to peel a rotten tomato

[vivi]

this is why i always carry both instead of trying to force either to do everything.

I carried both side by side on vacation and in every single comparison the coarse PE did better.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head my SE Pacifics cut better than me PE. If you guys have any suggestions I'll try them out.

[sethwm]

Good luck cutting with a PE what I cut with my Jumpmaster 2 or even with my SE Pac Salt in H1 at peak sharpness. The only task I can't accomplish fast enough with my spyderedges (sharpened my style) is to peel a rotten tomato

Is that just a test or do you actually have a need to peel rotten tomatoes?

[vivi]

Since switching my PE knives from 1000+ grit to 200-300 grit, I've stopped loving it.

Remind me, how do you strop after… What material and compound?

I don't. If it can't cleanly shave right off the 200-300 grit diamond stone, I did a bad job minimizing the burr and keep at it until it shaves.

[prndltech]

I should’ve added to my original post… combo edges!

[zuludelta]

My favourite thing about SE is that it keeps a working edge longer relative to a PE blade in the same steel. Well ground SE in thin blade stock is great for getting the most out of steels that have lower quantified edge retention (e.g., 8Cr13MoV, VG-10, BD1N, LC200N) compared to high-vanadium content particle metallurgy "super steels".

For my work uses, this makes a serrated LC200N & VG-10 folder an excellent complement or even alternative to the more wear-resistant plain edge knives in my regular work knife rotation (which is currently populated by PE knives in S30V, S90V, S110V, K390, ZDP-189, and Maxamet). I could use my SE Caribbean as my sole work knife if I had to & would have no complaints, functionality/utility-wise.

In my experience, and for what I cut at work (mostly industrial cardboard & pallet straps), SE LC200N & VG-10 keep a working edge just fine—maybe not as long as the edge I can get out of PE S30V, but they come reasonably close—while taking less time to touch up/resharpen (with the appropriate tool & technique). This is a good tradeoff for me. Almost all the cutting I do at work is what I would term "rough cutting", so I prioritize working edge retention over initial razor sharpness.

All that said, I overall still prefer PE over SE both for work & personal-carry, though a big reason for that is just subjective preference with regards to design/aesthetics.

[elena86]

this is why i always carry both instead of trying to force either to do everything.

I carried both side by side on vacation and in every single comparison the coarse PE did better.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head my SE Pacifics cut better than me PE. If you guys have any suggestions I'll try them out.

That's a good one It's a joke, yes ?! You almost fooled me

P.S Just in case you are serious I can give you a rope (or even a special belt) that MY SE Pac Salt cuts better than your PE...not to mention my Jumpmaster 2. Your PE could take a back seat