Is sharpening hard steels hard?

[Scandi Grind]

While reading over the "How much does toughness matter?" thread I started wondering about the difficulty of sharpening hard tool steels with high wear resistance. We've all seen the diamond shaped charts that attempt to compare the relative toughness, corrosion resistance, edge retention, and of course ease of sharpening. I have always been a proponent of easy to sharpen steels on survival knives because if I damage the edge I want to be able to repair it with relatively simple tools, by my usual standard, that would be an Arkansas stone, but I have even heard of knives being able to be sharpened on a flat log with sand on top of it if you want to go a step farther.

However, back in the other thread there were some opinions that high wear steels such as Cru-Wear, CPM M4, and similar steels are not harder to maintain in primitive environments, although the requirement seemed to be having the right sharpening tools and good technique.

Those last two requirements seem to still keep me thinking softer steels are better for my requirements. It seems my original perspective still applies even if the "right tools" are a Sharpmaker, that doesn't meet my requirement of being sharpenable on an Arkansas stone, and even if it was possible to sharpen with proper technique, if that technique takes years to learn, then it is certainly not as easy as softer alloys either, and I think not nearly as quick to sharpen even if it were just as easy. One persons comment was that they were able to maintain high wear steels in the field to a point, but if they damage the edge, as opposed to regular dulling, they were not able to repair damage without more advanced tools, this would essentially be my concern.

The point of this thread though is to hear everyone's opinions, experiences, and use cases because I am actually very interested in the increased performance potential of steels with high edge retention, but am not yet ready to abandon the theory that softer steels are more maintainable. What do you think?

[JRinFL]

My personal opinion is that harder steels and "super" steels aren't harder to sharpen, only more time consuming. In other words, it takes longer to sharpen them, but the difficulty is the same. There are many people for whom the time commitment is not worth it, so they choose other steels. I have moved my preference down to somewhere in the middle like Cruwear & Magnacut because, for me, the effort vs reward ratio is better. Also, diamonds are a sharpeners best friend.

Full disclosure: I will never be more than a mediocre sharpener who finds sharpening to be tedious, usually.

[Evil D]

It's harder, it depends entirely on what you're using to sharpen it with. A more fair way to say it would be that it just takes more passes on a given grit stone to get there than a less hard steel.

[vivi]

In my opinion, no.

I've never gone somewhere with a knife that I couldn't also bring some basic sharpening supplies. I keep a 260 grit diamond stone and a UF sharpmaker rod at work. I keep a DMT X Coarse / coarse folding sharpener in my EDC backpack, etc.

I've been saying it for years, but just fold up a sheet or two of sandpaper and store it in your wallet. That's all you need for field touch-ups. I keep a piece of 300 grit in mine.

Using a diamond plate is even easier than using an arkansas stone as they don't wear or dish and they cut faster. fewer strokes = fewer chances to mess up.

[JRinFL]

In my opinion, no.

I've never gone somewhere with a knife that I couldn't also bring some basic sharpening supplies. I keep a 260 grit diamond stone and a UF sharpmaker rod at work. I keep a DMT X Coarse / coarse folding sharpener in my EDC backpack, etc.

I've been saying it for years, but just fold up a sheet or two of sandpaper and store it in your wallet. That's all you need for field touch-ups. I keep a piece of 300 grit in mine.

Using a diamond plate is even easier than using an arkansas stone as they don't wear or dish and they cut faster. fewer strokes = fewer chances to mess up.

Priceless advice.

[wrdwrght]

Harder yes, if you don’t have the appropriate abrasives AND if you don’t commit to the idea that technique truly matters.

This last point sounds intimidating, but let the late Cliff Stamp put you at ease: https://youtu.be/OPGGo3W15HQ

[yablanowitz]

I carry a pair of DMT Diafold double-sided sharpeners in my back pocket. Anything from 420J2 to Maxamet is field repairable with those.

[Ramonade]

The fewer strokes = fewer chances to mess up is a real thing. And maybe that hard steels tend to make people say that they are "harder to sharpen" just because they have to do more strokes and mess up their sharpening because ofthe inconsistency of their technique.

It is not a blow, I do the big reprofile (4° and more) on a fixed angle system, because I would introduce some convexity otherwise. Convexity is good for a lot of things, I just like straigth grind lines

[Soanso McMasters]

I agree with the comments from Vivi and Ramonade. The harder steels are harder to sharpen because of more opportunities (strokes) to mess things up. Oddly though, I find K390 sharpens up fast despite being a hard steel. Not sure why or how that is but it’s one of the very few high edge retention steels I like.

[apollo]

It all depends what sharpener you use and how dull you're blades are.
If the sharpness is faiding on a super steel ist not hard to fix that on the sharpmaker if you have some experience .

If you destroyed you're edge on such a steel then it can be **** to make it good again on things like the sharpmaker because the rods just arent good enough for that kinda work to call it "easy" to resharpen that. In cases like that i use the ken onion worksharp now and my life can not be more easy with that thing... i chipped my new yojimbo 2 wile carving some wood so i needed to reprofile. Now s30v is no super steel but it only took me 4 minuts to get rid of the chips in the blade and finish it to a mirror polish so i guess with a supersteel it maybe takes me 10 minuts tops. So in my case if you can get an edge that is shaving sharp in less then an half hour i call it easy

[Wandering_About]

If you're willing to get the proper abrasives and use the proper techniques, the top level supersteels are not that difficult to sharpen.

If you are not willing or able to get proper abrasives, then they will be difficult to sharpen and you will not get the best out of them. And will just have a poor experience in general with them.

A reprofile to a thinner edge and use of a microbevel makes maintenance of stuff like Maxamet and REX 45 much easier, but there's an up front investment in reprofiling. This kind of edge also will not work for all people and situations-these steels do have limitations when run thin.

I think diamond stones are worth it for most people regardless of steel. As has been mentioned, fewer strokes means less compounding error and diamond stones tend to abrade steel fastest. I'll grant that especially to an experienced sharpener, fast cutting is not everything, but it is a good trait for a stone to have.

[Coastal]

Do any of you use electric sharpening tools?

[yablanowitz]

Not on anything I value.

[Wandering_About]

Do any of you use electric sharpening tools?

The longer I live, the more I believe that I'd only trust a Tormek style powered sharpener. Belt grinders of any kind can get very sketchy when you're dealing with edges, especially thin as I like them. Too easy to cause problems before you even know it has happened.

[jwbnyc]

I’ve seen too many knives destroyed by powered sharpening.

[jwbnyc]

Double tap.

[Coastal]

Not on anything I value.

That's what I figured. I wonder how many of the knives we buy have been electrically sharpened, rather than hand-sharpened.

[vivi]

Do any of you use electric sharpening tools?

yes. machetes, axes, chef knives and choppers generally. Knives under 6" or so I just use bench stones.

scrapyard dogfather, my priciest knife:



modded the spine, reprofiled the edge and convexed the primary grind a bit where before it was flat saber. More nimble and bites deeper on a chop.

Set both the edges on my work knives with a belt sander. Maintain them on bench stones though.

[bdblue]

high wear steels such as Cru-Wear, CPM M4, and similar steels are not harder to maintain in primitive environments

I don't consider Cruwear to be in the same category as M4 in terms of wear resistance or difficulty in sharpening. There are newer high wear steels such as Maxamet, Rex45 and K390 that are a good amount harder than M4 and a bit more difficult to sharpen. I use DMT diamond stones for sharpening and I don't have any problems with these steels. I'd hate to try to sharpen one of them on a piece of rock I picked up off the ground.

[yablanowitz]

Not on anything I value.

That's what I figured. I wonder how many of the knives we buy have been electrically sharpened, rather than hand-sharpened.

My guess would be all of them. Hand sharpening would take too long.