Looking at "Vivi edges" with a VHX-6000 digital microscope

[vivi]

I've got access to a lab that has all sorts of test equipment. Most of it isn't applicable to our hobby, but they do have a really nice digital microscope for looking at edges.



I took pictures of three different edges today so we could compare my style edge to others.

1. My black & green PE H1 Pacific Salt. The edge was set two months ago and it has been used hard and dulled, then touched up a few times since. Usually with a handheld folding DMT XX Coarse, but the last touch-up was on a harbor freight 300 grit diamond stone. Despite appearances it can scrape shave.

2. Lab razor. This was a fresh factory edge #18 razor blade from a pack of 100. It was cleanly shaving sharp.

3. Leatherman Micra. I've been carrying this Micra for over a decade. Not sure when I last sharpened it as I rarely use the blade. I believe I last touched it up on a sharpmaker with brown or fine rods. No shaving ability and cuts poorly in general.

First, here is the razor. There is an edge shot fresh from the pack and another after wiping off the oil.





Here's the Micra:





Here's the Pacific Salt:




That's the tip.



Close-up of Sal's logo. Never realized it was four distinct channels etched in.



Close-up of the black blade coating.









The edge. The microserrations are incredibly obvious under this level of magnification.

Imagine using the razor edge to slice rope. Imagine using the Pacific Salt to shave your face.

I don't do much shaving or fine push cutting with my EDC knife, so I went with "the right tool for the job" for me. Coarse edges.

If you guys find this sort of thing interesting, I can make a day of it. Sharpen some knives at different grits and we can inspect them fresh off the stones.


edit: Session #2 is here, with higher quality images and a comparison with a brand new Pacific Salt

[p_atrick]

Man, I'd love to see a Vivi edge compared to a Michael Christy edge. Thanks for doing this; it is really cool.

[ladybug93]

Michael Christy edge.

is that the one with fine on one side and coarse on the other i remember reading about? if so, i've been curious about the performance of that edge.

[Wandering_About]

Cool stuff Vivi. Always appreciate when folks share microscope images of edges. Always something to learn!

[Road Tripper]

Thanks Vivi, this is really interesting to see.

[vivi]

Cool stuff Vivi. Always appreciate when folks share microscope images of edges. Always something to learn!

One thing I've learned after playing with this edge type for a bit, is minor edge damage basically makes no difference.

For example I recently got two small chips in my LC200N Pacific Salt. How did I find out? Not by cutting stuff, it cuts great. But by running my nail down the edge to feel how coarse the apex was sharpened to. I felt two small chips that I couldn't detect by the cutting performance alone.



In that image it looks like the H1 Pacific could have two decent sized chips along the edge. Or it might just be how the blade looked after the last sharpening, not 100% sure. Either way the knife cuts fine. It doesn't feel chipped if I slice some rope, cardboard or paper.

I feel like that sort of edge deformation would be a lot more noticeable in a polished edge.

So while a polished apex to me appears to be the stronger edge, exhibiting a more uniform apex, I feel any damage received to this edge type will be more noticeable and degrade the cutting performance faster.

[p_atrick]

is that the one with fine on one side and coarse on the other i remember reading about? if so, i've been curious about the performance of that edge.

No. He is a YouTuber who does some amazing work when it comes to crisp, clean apexes.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCC-cvUqhuR--z1uUAXqMzaw

[TkoK83Spy]

is that the one with fine on one side and coarse on the other i remember reading about? if so, i've been curious about the performance of that edge.

No. He is a YouTuber who does some amazing work when it comes to crisp, clean apexes.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCC-cvUqhuR--z1uUAXqMzaw

I actually use his style, or attempt to haha...when freehanding and taking off a lot of steel. Once you get in the groove, it's extremely effective. Of course, the lower you go the higher the risk at some nasty scratches.

[ykspydiefan]

Thanks for taking the time to post up, it is great getting a chance to see the edge and equate it to a sharpening progression.

[vivi]

Thanks for taking the time to post up, it is great getting a chance to see the edge and equate it to a sharpening progression.

This was done on a whim while I was visiting the lab. What I'd like to do is have a sharpening day and get a set of knives to inspect. One sharpened at 180 grit, another at 300, 600, 1,000, 2,000 etc.

Plus I want to see what a fresh, "showpiece" 300 grit edge looks like. It was fun looking at an "honest" edge that was straight out of my pocket though, as that's what it looks like day to day. Worked great breaking down a bunch of cardboard last night.

[NCJohn62]

Always good to see how different steels look under magnification with different sharpening protocols. I appreciate you sharing your work with us and look forward to seeing some other edges

[ZrowsN1s]

Thanks for the pics. Always cool to see edge close ups.

[Bloke]

Cool pics Vivi!

Up until I joined the Forum I erroneously chased sharp through edge refinement.

As a young rigger when I needed to cut rope I’d ask one of the boys who sharpened their knives on concrete to use one of theirs. Ah, hahaha!

Today I seldom sharpen anything other than a caping knife over about 600grit and the other day I touched up my most used PE folder, an S30V Military on SM diamond rods at 30 deg and called it good.

[JD Spydo]

VIVI your photos prove that there is no such thing as a plain edged knife. All knives are serrated when you look close enough.

I've often wondered if a true plain edged knife is even possible? You would think that with some of those super fine Shapton stones you might be able to pull it off. But on second thought I kind of doubt it.

[Hardbawl]

Thanks for such an educational post. So cool. It does beg a question. Your edges seem to indicate that stone moved perpendicular to the edge giving a fine serrated finish. Have you ever looked at an edge that a SharpMaker produces? Could you possibly share that?

[vivi]

Thanks for such an educational post. So cool. It does beg a question. Your edges seem to indicate that stone moved perpendicular to the edge giving a fine serrated finish. Have you ever looked at an edge that a SharpMaker produces? Could you possibly share that?

Next time I go in I'll compare a few different edges. Factory edge knife, freshly sharpened Vivi style edge and a hand sharpened knife apexed on the fine sharpmaker rods.

[TkoK83Spy]

Thanks for such an educational post. So cool. It does beg a question. Your edges seem to indicate that stone moved perpendicular to the edge giving a fine serrated finish. Have you ever looked at an edge that a SharpMaker produces? Could you possibly share that?

Next time I go in I'll compare a few different edges. Factory edge knife, freshly sharpened Vivi style edge and a hand sharpened knife apexed on the fine sharpmaker rods.

The white rods feel like a sin to use these days!

[ChrisinHove]

Excellent photos, Vivi! Thank you for posting… fascinating stuff.

[vivi]

Compared my user Pacific Salt sharpened at 200 grit to a NIB Pacific and a razor blade:







I'll be uploading 15-20 images when I get back to my laptop. These are higher quality and more interesting edges, you guys will like this update.

Here's a video of the 200 grit edge shaving pretty cleanly - https://vidsli.com/watch/97wjfM3gE6

[Coastal]

Compared my user Pacific Salt sharpened at 200 grit to a NIB Pacific and a razor blade:







I'll be uploading 15-20 images when I get back to my laptop. These are higher quality and more interesting edges, you guys will like this update.

Here's a video of the 200 grit edge shaving pretty cleanly - https://vidsli.com/watch/97wjfM3gE6

`

What's the angle of that user bevel? Around 12º? It's a very nice edge.