Need help: Remedying gritty action on stainless steel Endura (no disassembly, no screws at all!)

[Wartstein]

My stainless steel Endura has abruptly developed a really gritty action.
Guess some dirt or sand must have gotten between scales and liners (EDIT: Meant WASHERS, not liners) or washers and blade in the pivot area.

In the 180 degree half circle the blade does when opening the knife, the "grittiness" starts at about 90 degrees, there actually are noticeable resistances to overcome at three points (a bit like with a half stop) and the action is generally gritty till the blade is almost opened.

The knife is still usable, though actually clearly harder to open and close one handed, and with a terrible "crunchy" feel.

Now the SS Endura has no screws at all (except for the clip), so I can´t disassemble it and can´t adjust anything.

- I tried to flush it with hot water and dishwashing liquid, I opened and closed it multiple times while trying to tilt the blade a bit to the left or right, also with the lockbar always kept depressed, I worked a sheet of paper between blade and scales at the pivot and moved it up and down there (the paper) hoping to "clean" the area...nothing worked.

- Oiling the pivot makes the issue a bit better, but just indirectly (does not actually remove the dirt or whatever is in there)

- Only thing left I can think of is compressed air (actually just ordered a can, so far I never needed compressed air for anything)

Any ideas? I´d really appreciate your input!

[JRinFL]

Are you holding the lock bar down when you flush the pivot area? I find that necessary to flush lock backs fully. I also sometimes have to flood the pivot with mineral oil to help float out the grit. It is messy and can take time to allow the oil to lift a carry the grit away.

Also, have you used a bright light and your loupe to inspect the tang of the blade where the lock bar rides? The curved portion. You may find machining marks that are the actual cause of the grittiness. Those are much more difficult to deal with, I'm sorry to say.

[S-3 ranch]

Try some PB blaster penetration oil , with blade 1/2-2/3 open lock bar open and blast it clean
Works for me in the Texas desert and beach

[spoonrobot]

Pack the pivot area full of toothpaste, open and close a few dozen times, wash with soap and hot water scrubbing with a toothbrush all around the pivot area with the blade both opened and closed.

If it's better but not 100%, repeat the process. Some people prefer to use an actual polishing compound but I've found them harder to remove completely. I do this on my SS and pinned FRN models when they get grit or sand stuck in the action.

[Holland]

I find holding the lock bar down helps a lot. I also put a light layer of vaseline on the blade in the pivot to help decrease drag where the lock bar glides

[vivi]

back when I carried the pinned Pacific Salt 1 this was my method:

toss the whole knife in a bowl of really hot soapy water.

flush it out with the lock release depressed.

repeat both steps again.

give the pivot a final rinse with the lock release depressed using a high pressure sprayer (garden hose with your thumb covering most of it can do the trick. I had access to a commercial dish washer back then with a high pressure sprayer).

finally, give it some lube.

[RustyIron]

Try some PB blaster penetration oil , with blade 1/2-2/3 open lock bar open and blast it clean

^^^This.

I was going to suggest something like Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber or disc brake cleaner spray, followed by some kind of lubricant. Really, there are a thousand spray cleaner/lubricant products that will be suitable. Just hose it out until all the contaminants are washed out.

[Evil D]

It depends on what you have in your country, but here I would try a penetrating oil called PB Blaster, it's pretty well known for being able to creep it's way into tight places and lubricate things and it might help to get out whatever crud is making the action gritty.


B'laster 16-PB Penetrating Catalyst - 11-Ounces https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I2079E/re ... 62ZD7A1Y7N

[JRinFL]

I think the oil has to be thick enough to hold the particles in suspension, at least long enough to float them out of the action. Super penetrating oils won't do that, but they do help removing other contaminates.

[S-3 ranch]

I think the oil has to be thick enough to hold the particles in suspension, at least long enough to float them out of the action. Super penetrating oils won't do that, but they do help removing other contaminates.

It’s the PSI from the spray when used with the spray tube, brake cleaner will blow it out also
But must be followed up with a oil to lubricant ( example drop or two of 3:1 oil )

[ladybug93]

yeah, i hold the lock at down and work the blade back and forth quickly while water is running through the pivot area. i do that from the back and flip it over and flush it through the handle as well. i've never disassembled my pac salt and that's always worked to get gritty sand and shells out of the pivot.

[Wartstein]

Are you holding the lock bar down ..

yeah, i hold the lock at down ..

I find holding the lock bar down ...

Thanks much for your inputs, guys!

- Yes, whenever I have to flush the pivot area of a lockback (which is almost never the case though) I do this with both the lock depresses and not depressed
- I did inspect the area with both my 10x and my 20x loupe and a strong light indeed. Nothing to see there, and I think machining marks can be ruled out, since the issue occured abruptly. Using and closing the knife, all fine - put it in pocket - next time opening it - gritty...
- @ Holland: I´ll try the Vaseline, just out of interest - never would have needed this so far on any backlock, but probably it is still improving things

[Wartstein]

Try some PB blaster penetration oil , ....

It depends on what you have in your country, but here I would try a penetrating oil called PB Blaster...

Thanks for your help, guys!!

Actually never heard of "blaster oil" - I never, ever would have needed such so far, my backlocks were always fine enough despite using them in dirt and sand and mud - the very few time I found them a bit gritty I just disassembled and cleaned.
But this "blaster oil" sounds like a good thing to check out!

[Wartstein]

Pack the pivot area full of toothpaste, open and close a few dozen times, wash with soap and hot water scrubbing with a toothbrush all around the pivot area with the blade both opened and closed.
---

Thanks for your input and help!

Now that´s something I never would have thought of - and something everyone who has these kind of issues can try easily (assuming that almost all people like to brush their teeth... ). I´ll certainly do so!

[Wartstein]

back when I carried the pinned Pacific Salt 1 this was my method:

... disc brake cleaner spray, followed by some kind of lubricant....
[/quote]

Thanks for your help, guys!

@Vivi: Yes, I was thinking about how I could get the most pressure behind the water jet... your method with the garden hose sounds good!
@ Rusty: I do have break cleaner at home, thanks, I´ll try!

[Wartstein]

Now some general questions:

- Do you guys really have to do these kinds of "backlock-cleanings" often?
I think about 90% of the times I have been using a Spyderco it was a Seki FRN backlock, and that was pretty often and in all kinds of dirty/muddy... conditions.
Still almost never had any real problems with "crunchy action".

- Do you find that kinds of "cleaning" normally preferable/quicker to just disassembling and cleaning the knife (which is not an option with the SS Endura)?

[Wandering_About]

I disassemble knives as rarely as possible. My favorite method for cleaning really dirty knives is brake cleaner followed by compressed air. Usually that does pretty good, but I won't make any full guarantees. Best to wear some protective Eyewear while doing this, brake cleaner in the eyes is no good.

[Toucan]

All I can say is that if the knife is ever gonna touch food, I wouldn't use anything with gnarly solvents, toxic petroleum distillates, heavy metals, etc. You get what I mean. Those things leave residue that you can probably never fully remove.

If you go the hot soapy water route, which is generally what I do, you can swish the knife in 90% rubbing alcohol afterwards and it will mix with all the water left in the nooks and crannies and evaporate more readily. I dry my knife off as best I can, give it a few shakes, and leave it by a desk fan to dry. Afterwards a few drops of food safe mineral oil (I use a toothpick to apply it.)

I've never not been able to remove grit with just hot soapy water and some swishing/ moving the blade back and forth. The tooth paste idea is interesting. While we're on the topic of oral health supplies as knife cleaners, you might be able to use a water flosser to blast out debris too. Never tried it, but why not?

[Evil D]

Try some PB blaster penetration oil , ....

It depends on what you have in your country, but here I would try a penetrating oil called PB Blaster...

Thanks for your help, guys!!

Actually never heard of "blaster oil" - I never, ever would have needed such so far, my backlocks were always fine enough despite using them in dirt and sand and mud - the very few time I found them a bit gritty I just disassembled and cleaned.
But this "blaster oil" sounds like a good thing to check out!

The blaster part is really more advertising than anything lol. I guess if you get help from a second person and have them spray the pivot while you work the blade back and forth that might help but it's just a penetrating lubricant. The argument for a thicker lube carrying the debris is a fair one as long as the lube can make it into the tight spaces.



Based on your description of how and where the gritty feeling happens, I would look at the tang where the lock bar rides along the blade during the opening arc, and clean out the notch that the lock bar seats into and clean it out several times. To me it sounds more like you have something going on in that area than in the actual pivot, because it starts happening half way through the opening arc. If grit was inside the pivot, I think the gritty feeling would be there throughout the entire opening motion. I've spent some time polishing back locks in these areas and I've found that the most performance you can gain in smoothing out the opening action is often in how smooth the lock bar contact is that rides along the tang. Usually they do a really good job at finishing the blade tang and making them smooth, but the lock bars are sometimes rough and sometimes they only contact the tang part way and they can even start to dig scratches into the tang over time and make the action worse instead of breaking in and getting better. Hopefully that's not the issue with yours, it's difficult to tell with a pinned construction knife.

[Wartstein]

...
.... but the lock bars are sometimes rough and sometimes they only contact the tang part way and they can even start to dig scratches into the tang over time....

Thanks again!

Yeah, I know what you mean, had this on one ore two backlocks, but just to a slight degree so it did not bother me.
But, as said: I think I can rule out that such wear over time is the case here. My SS Endura was perfectly fine when I put it in pocket, next time I deployed the action was grittier than I´ve ever experienced on any Spyderco...(now people will wonder what kind of lint must live in my pockets.. )

You know, since I very rarely had such issues with my backlocks, and if, clearly less severe I begin to think that the stainless steel construction might make the knife "behave" differently here:
Due to the extremely rigid built, there is not a bit of flex in the handle, also not at the front part where the blade sits.
Now a tiny bit of flex and motion there, which I guess all Seki FRN backlocks tend to have (perhaps not even really conceivable, but still existent) might actually act a bit in the way of a "self cleaning function" - as said, the SS construction can´t offer this (does not mean that the very rigid built and feel is not nice in other capacities).

Good thing is: Most people won´t use a heavy, slick and thin handled stainless steel handle Spyderco as a dedicated outdoor-mud-and-dirt folder anyway... I still DO so though occasionally... (see pic below)