VG-MAX- Tell Shun to give it up

[Baron Mind]

Does anyone at Spyderco have any connections at Shun? Shun needs to let Spyderco do some sprints in VG-MAX. Would be good marketing for Shun. That steel looks .

Carbon - 1.1
Chromium - 16
Tungsten - 3.0
Vanadium - 3.0
Molybdenum - 1.5
Cobalt- 2.5

That's a sexy composition.

I suppose SPY27 could be considered a different take on VG10, both suped up VG10s, but personally I'd like to have both.

[Larrin]

If VG10 is 9 better than VG1, how much better is Max than 10?

[benben]

I have a Shun Santoku in VG-MAX, use it everyday, absolutely love it! It’s my favorite knife, period!

[olywa]

I am slowly replacing the knives in my kitchen block with Shuns. I have gained a new-found respect for VG10.

[Bill1170]

Does anyone at Spyderco have any connections at Shun? Shun needs to let Spyderco do some sprints in VG-MAX. Would be good marketing for Shun. That steel looks .

Carbon - 1.1
Chromium - 16
Tungsten - 3.0
Vanadium - 3.0
Molybdenum - 1.5
Cobalt- 2.5

That's a sexy composition.

I suppose SPY27 could be considered a different take on VG10, both suped up VG10s, but personally I'd like to have both.

Do we have any performance testing data on VG-Max used in knives?

[archangel]

If VG10 is 9 better than VG1, how much better is Max than 10?

Easy. The answer must be 42.

[VashHash]

It goes to 11
https://youtu.be/4xgx4k83zzc

[Larrin]

The composition looks way too rich for good toughness for an ingot steel. The wear resistance would be pretty high for an ingot steel of course.

[JuPaul]

I've been quite happy with my Shun knives in vg-max, but I have heard reports that it can be chippy, so we're careful not to leave those knives in the sink or anywhere they might get banged up.

[Deadboxhero]

Does anyone at Spyderco have any connections at Shun? Shun needs to let Spyderco do some sprints in VG-MAX. Would be good marketing for Shun. That steel looks .

Carbon - 1.1
Chromium - 16
Tungsten - 3.0
Vanadium - 3.0
Molybdenum - 1.5
Cobalt- 2.5

That's a sexy composition.

I suppose SPY27 could be considered a different take on VG10, both suped up VG10s, but personally I'd like to have both.

Spy27 is a better steel.

[Deadboxhero]

There was a curious steel called 1.2838 that highlights why ingot VG Max is not ideal if the chemistry is correct and it is also a non pm steel.

1.2838,
is a high vanadium, high carbon steel roughly like "Super Blue", but with Vanadium thanstead.

Right away that will grab a lot of folks attention.


Personally I was also enthralled by its chemistry.

1.45% carbon
3.25% vanadium
0.40% manganese
0.25% silicon

Well, my excitement ended when I learned more about how carbides form in the steel and why the powdered metallurgy process is important for bypassing carbide growth to prevent massive sizes when cooling the steel from liquid when it's made. When the strong carbide forming elements and carbon are in significant amounts inside the steel massive blocky carbides will form when cooling to without a PM process.

The 1.2838 would be a blocky mess.



What if we PM it?

Well, there is already a steel that fits that role without reinventing the wheel. (Something Larrin pointed out to me when we had the conversation about 1.2838)

CPM 4V, a fine structured Vanadium rich carbon steel capable of high hardness and good edge stability with air hardening to boot.

If VG Max is an ingot steel it would not be desirable for the above reasons.

Even if it was a PM grade the Chromium volume is higher than it needs to be and not as ideal and will lead to more blocky chromium carbides.

Spy27 has a better carbon chromium balance.

The vanadium in VGmax won't be as exciting as one would think either even if it was a PM steel.

Vanadium has an affinity for chromium carbide and likes to enrich the chromium carbides if the chromium volume is significant. This is why steels like elmax and m390 don't actually make a lot of vanadium carbide despite having a decent amount of an vanadium.

So Spy27 is the better steel to VG Max and what's available to Spyderco.

Even if Somehow VG Max was available there's just simply better steels available to select in 2020.

[cycleguy]

Has anyone here tried the Yaxell Dragon BD1N? Walkaway impressions vs the other Japan kitchen cutlery that is done in VG-10 or VG-10 variant? I feel it is a little harder than Spyderco folder BD1N and therefore is something of a different animal, but I have no proof/test results of this; just impressions. Could BD1N be one of those better steels to select?

CG

[Abyss_Fish]

My understanding is their reformulation is more of a PR thing, setting themselves apart from cheap knockoff Japanese cutlery. I doubt they’ll let go of it anytime soon.

[Baron Mind]

There was a curious steel called 1.2838 that highlights why ingot VG Max is not ideal if the chemistry is correct and it is also a non pm steel.

1.2838,
is a high vanadium, high carbon steel roughly like "Super Blue", but with Vanadium thanstead.

Right away that will grab a lot of folks attention.


Personally I was also enthralled by its chemistry.

1.45% carbon
3.25% vanadium
0.40% manganese
0.25% silicon

Well, my excitement ended when I learned more about how carbides form in the steel and why the powdered metallurgy process is important for bypassing carbide growth to prevent massive sizes when cooling the steel from liquid when it's made. When the strong carbide forming elements and carbon are in significant amounts inside the steel massive blocky carbides will form when cooling to without a PM process.

The 1.2838 would be a blocky mess.



What if we PM it?

Well, there is already a steel that fits that role without reinventing the wheel. (Something Larrin pointed out to me when we had the conversation about 1.2838)

CPM 4V, a fine structured Vanadium rich carbon steel capable of high hardness and good edge stability with air hardening to boot.

If VG Max is an ingot steel it would not be desirable for the above reasons.

Even if it was a PM grade the Chromium volume is higher than it needs to be and not as ideal and will lead to more blocky chromium carbides.

Spy27 has a better carbon chromium balance.

The vanadium in VGmax won't be as exciting as one would think either even if it was a PM steel.

Vanadium has an affinity for chromium carbide and likes to enrich the chromium carbides if the chromium volume is significant. This is why steels like elmax and m390 don't actually make a lot of vanadium carbide despite having a decent amount of an vanadium.

So Spy27 is the better steel to VG Max and what's available to Spyderco.

Even if Somehow VG Max was available there's just simply better steels available to select in 2020.

Thanks for the insight!