Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

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Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:32 pm

Well I have an issue I want cleared up. And I may indeed be wrong which is why I'm coming to all my brethren to get this minor disagreement cleared up. A good Spyder Brother of mine and I are having a slight disagreement. He believes that models like the Szabo folder, C-60 Ayoob and Chinook ( models with a large degree of belly) are classified as "Recurve" blades :confused: .

I respectfully disagree with him because I've always believed that models like the Adventura, Spyker, Zulu and ULIZE are true RECURVE models. Now if I'm wrong ( which I'm 98% certain that I'm not) please tell me where I went in the wrong direction and how I got disinformation on those classifications of blade designs?? :confused:

Now there are models like the C-111 Captain that I feel could actually fall under two different blade types>> the Captain has a lot of the attributes of a Hawkbill and some attributes of a Recurve IMO. But the models I listed above I don't think there is any valid argument>> I believe they are what they are. OK let's get this straight>> and I welcome those of you who think my good Spyder-Brother is right but please tell me what the truth is?

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby The Deacon » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:46 pm

I'd agree that he's wrong, JD, at least where the Ayoob and Chinook are concerned. There's no recurve at all in either. OTOH, while I don't own a Szabo folder, the pictures I've seen of it seem to indicate a very slight recurve. While it's certainly nothing like the recurve of the Spyderco recurves you mentioned, it does appear to be one, at least technically.
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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:02 pm

The Deacon wrote:I'd agree that he's wrong, JD, at least where the Ayoob and Chinook are concerned. There's no recurve at all in either. OTOH, while I don't own a Szabo folder, the pictures I've seen of it seem to indicate a very slight recurve. While it's certainly nothing like the recurve of the Spyderco recurves you mentioned, it does appear to be one, at least technically.
That's interesting because I got the pleasure of actually meeting Laci Szabo at a knife show in Texas some time back and he had quite a wide selection of his stuff there at the show where him and his wife were running their own booth. I really liked a lot of the stuff he had and I don't really recall any recurv models that he had displayed at that show.

I've never yet owned one of those Szabo folders that Spyderco did but I'll take a closer look at it. But of all the extreme tactical designs I've seen at that show and on his website "szaboinc.com" I don't really recall anything I would have defined as a classic recurve :confused:

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:13 pm

OK I went over to Bladeforums and found a really clear, close up photo of the Szabo Spyderco folder. I see where someone could construe the blade as being a "recurve" of sorts but not at all like classic Recurves like the Zulu, Adventura, Spyker and Ulize folders. To me it's not even close. The only part of the blade that appears to go into a "recurve" position is all the way back to the heel of the blade>> its not a part of the blade you would try to sharpen or use in my humble opinion.

I do see what the Deacon is talking about but if I was on a jury there is no way you could convince me that the Spyderco Szabo folder is a classic recurve>> I'm not at all trying to be disagreeable either >> I just don't see it. To me the blade on the Szabo folder has a lot of the same attributes as the C-60 Ayoob and to some degree it has the same degree of belly as the Chinook and other models like them.

Again the part of the blade that appears to go into a recurve position is just not a working part of the blade. I would never classify that blade in the same group as the 4 I mentioned above. Albeit I do think there is a good argument that Reverse S blades could be classified as a type of recurve.

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby Evil D » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:45 pm

Seems to me any blade that has an S shape to it is a recurve, however little it may be. If the blade has an inward curve near the tang and the edge makes an S, what else would you call it??
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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby RLDubbya » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:33 pm

Good, quick read on recurves on the A.G. Russell site:

https://agrussell.com/knife-articles/recurved-blade

There's an interview with Ernie Emerson someplace on Utube where he discusses how the Commander series is a recurve design. He advocates for the use of a recurve in a fighting knife because when used properly, you have more blade to "stab and slice" the opponent. Since the belly of the recurve juts out more than the handle, you can sink the belly deeper into your enemy's abdomen and keep your hand from entering as well. This means that the belly of the knife can inflict lethal damage to organs, while the hand stays outside the body cavity, and cannot be cut by a broken rib for example.

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:54 pm

Evil D wrote:Seems to me any blade that has an S shape to it is a recurve, however little it may be. If the blade has an inward curve near the tang and the edge makes an S, what else would you call it??
I understand what you're saying and technically after splitting hairs that might be true>> but with the 4 Spyderco Recurves I previously mentioned i.e. The Zulu, The Adventura, The Spyker and the ULIZE all have something in common that the Szabo doesn't they are true recurves. The very slight inverted curve toward the heel of that Szabo model really can't be utilized for much of anything that you would get from those other 4 models from the way I'm looking at it. Which is why I just can't label that one in the same genre as the 4 that I mentioned.

For instance if I actually needed a Recurve for some type of obscure job I could easily recommend the 4 as being real recurves.

So I guess with all that being said we might just as well put the C-111 Captain in the Hawkbill sector :confused: Personally I don't see how you could market the Szabo model ( which I like by the way) as a classic recurve model :confused: There's just got to be a more clear definition of what a classic recurve really is?

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby Evil D » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:07 pm

I think for description purposes it's fine to call them a recurve, they just may not be the best examples. I've seen knives labeled as hawbills that are barely past being a wharncliffe.
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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby ThePeacent » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:40 pm

to me, a recurve is simply a blade of any kind that has along its edge a usable section that is convex and a usable section that is concave, with a degree of curvature enough to be distinguished by the naked eye.

As such, the Lil'Matriarch here has a concave shape half of it edge length, and a convex edge the other half

Image

Let me post some other non-Spyderco knives that I consider recurve, by the same rule

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part curved inward, part curved outwards

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IMO is as simple as that. So, the Captain, Ulize, and Reverse S blades are recurves. The Szabo is not, as there is no "usable" edge length with an opposite curvature to the main one

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:52 am

PEACENT I just knew you would back me up on this one >> because everything you stated I completely agree with. If I was wanting a recurve blade the Szabo folder wouldn't even cross my mind. Because again I put it in a class of streamlined blades with a significant amount of belly on them ( convex only).

And like I said earlier the one portion of that Szabo folder that is inverted is a part of the blade that has no working ability to speak of. Don't get me wrong I love the Szabo folder and wish I owned one and I eventually will if I get my wish. But if I truly wanted a Spyderco "recurve" to do serious cutting work with the Szabo folder would be about the last blade I would consider using. I would use the Szabo folder as a combination EDC and SD folder.

So far my favorite of all the Spyderco recuves ( true recurves that is) is the Spyker and how I would love a Sprint Run. But the one I want most would be a Spyderedged version of the ULIZE. And hey guys I'm not trying to be argumentative, disagreeable, redneck, arrogant or just a plain ol' "Stick In The Mud" :rolleyes: I just call them the way I see them that's all :)

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:17 am

Hey JD, hawkbill or poorly sharpened wharnie? ;)

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:26 am

Evil D wrote:Hey JD, hawkbill or poorly sharpened wharnie? ;)
That's an interesting question you pose :) Because you know I personally would want more curve than those on any working/user Hawkbill that I would put to work. Probably the Crossbill and Superhawk is about as small of a curve as I would want to work with.

It does pose an interesting question and to some degree a very interesting debate because technically I guess you could really call them a "Wharnie-Hawk" :rolleyes:

We had a thread going a few years back and I think it was even before you became a citizen of Spyderville. I was posing a question as to whether or not anyone here would like a fixed blade Hawkbill. We had at the time a good Brother who went by the forum name "Ceya" and he presented a very interesting fixed blade Hawkbill that he affectionately called "Ceya's Hawk" and I'm here to tell you that it is a beautiful design and I probably would have got one had Spyderco ever made it.

I haven't talked to Ceya in at least 3 to 4 years now but I wish I could remember the name of that thread because I would like to pull it up and show it to everyone again>> but it didn't have much more curve than the ones you showed but I still think that knife would have been a beast in SE.

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:52 am

I was merely pointing out that you could probably find any blade type and make a debate about whether it qualifies as a particular blade type or whether it doesn't have enough of a certain quality to be acceptable. If you don't allow them to be one blade type then you're inventing hybrid blade names to describe them. It gets complicated.
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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:37 am

Here’s a good one for you guys to discuss! ;)

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:57 am

RadioactiveSpyder wrote:Here’s a good one for you guys to discuss! ;)

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Rerecurvecurve ;)
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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:49 am

RadioactiveSpyder wrote:Here’s a good one for you guys to discuss! ;)

Image
The KRIS model is not only a "Recurve" but it's really kind of different from most classic recurves. The KRIS is one of the very few old school models that I unfortunately never got to own or use. I'm hoping that someday I might find a used one in a Pawn Shop or maybe nail on in a trade.

For those of you who use and/or EDC REcurve blades I have to ask "What Do You Primarily Use Them For?" The KRIS is a very solid built model and it' wasn't on the main line up very long. The history of the KRIS design goes back many centuries from what I've been told. The KRIS and the CAptain are two models that I would like to ask the designer what their primary purpose is?

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:25 pm

I have read that the Recurve Edge Blade is the most efficient blade shape and pattern for cutting materials. Is that true or false?

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Re: Definitions? Recurve? Reverse S? & other Exotic Blade designs?

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:27 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:25 pm
I have read that the Recurve Edge Blade is the most efficient blade shape and pattern for cutting materials. Is that true or false?
That's a very subjective but yet also a very interesting question as well>> because I guess it just boils down to what type of material are you cutting?

One big thing about Spyderco's great recurve models like the Adventura, The Spyker, The Zulu and the Ulize to me are all "classic recurve" models and I would probably use all of those mentioned for virtually the same cutting chores. For a long time I've wanted to see how one of Spyderco's Spyderedged Recurved models would perform>> but for some strange and unbeknownst reason they have never made any of their recurves available in Spyderedge :confused: >> but they make Reverse S blades in Spyderedge>> and we know how well they perform>> I just don't get it especially with Spyderco being the best in the business with serrated blades :confused:

One advantage that a Recurve and a Reverse S blade both has is that the blade is always at an angle of attack so to speak>> which makes it an aggressive cutter. With the superb performance you can get from a Spyderedged Matriach ( Reverse S blade) for instance I can't understand why they don't make a classic recurve in Spyderedge :confused: I just know in my gut it would be one very aggressive cutting tool>> especially the ULIZE model :cool:


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