Reverse S vs Hawkbill blades?

[JD Spydo]

Well I've talked a lot about my beloved Hawkbills blades in recent times and I use at least one of my Hawkbill folders constantly as a "companion" blade to my main PE folder that I use for my EDC. Albeit I've had one good Spyder Brother call my attention to the virtues of the "Reverse S" blades that Spyderco has made popular in the past few years. I'm speaking of models like the Civilian, Matriarch, Lil Matriarch and on the extreme end you can even add the Cricket model to the list. The good Brother pointed out that some of these "Reverse S" blades actually have advantages over Hawkbill blades and can even be used quite efficiently for every day carry.

I've been shown that "Reverse S" blades have attributes that you don't have with Hawkbill blades. One example is that "Reverse S" blades have a pronounced belly which certainly gives you more versatility on many cutting jobs. Spyderco's Reverse S blades also have some of the same features that Hawkbills have like a curved point and that they are to some degree also capable of limited "pull cutting" jobs. Whereas pull cutting is one of the Hawkbill blades best selling points. Now I will point out that I've found that Hawkbill blades do indeed have more leverage for pull cutting and seem to do better working with cordage, rope and nylon straps and so forth.

What I want to know is how you all compare the two blade styles and to point out the advantages and disadvantages of both the Hawkbill and Reverse S blades and your personal experiences with both of these blade designs. One good Brother has said that he has even found that some of the Reverse S models even make ideal folders for EDC uses>> whereas Hawkbills tend to be more specialized in certain cutting jobs.

[Michael Janich]

Cool question...

Not long ago, I wrote an article for Small Arms Review magazine on the history of the Civilian/Matriarch family and my take on the performance qualities of the Reverse "S." Thankfully, the folks at SAR saw fit to share some of that article online:

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display. ... icles=3091

Thanks, SAR!

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

[elena86]

Excelent article.I purchased a waved Matriarch some time ago just for self defense purposes ( I tried to use it for edc but with no success ) but I hope I'll never have to use it in a self defense scenario.It's a vicious mean blade.I know because I did some tests on a chunk of pork.In my country civilians are not allowed to carry fire arms and a concealed claw like the Matriarch could be your last ditch if things go crazy(or go south to quote mr.Janich ).Normaly my companion blade is a SE Tasman Salt or a Harpy (I allways carry teeth) but in rare ocasions, when I walk in the dark or in potential dangerous areas , my Matriarch sits quite and deadly in my right front pocket.I only wish they called it the Patriarch cauz we are humans not elephants :D

[JD Spydo]

Thanks for sharing that great article with us Mr. Janich and also I want to thank you for all your excellent, well thought contributions you've made to the Spyderco line up of great self defense tools. You were the one that actually converted me to being a fan of many of your Wharncliffe blade designs and convinced me of their superior slashing and penetration for SD knives with those designs.

With some of the information you've shared along with some of the hands-on experience that Brother "Surfingringo" has also shared with us has heightened my awareness of just how functional the "Reverse S" Spyderco folders possess. I'm also discovering how much tool value that "Reverse S" blades have for many "every day carry" type cutting jobs as well as their self defense attributes.

There is one thing that I believe that Reverse S blades have with Hawkbill blades that I've discovered in my own uses of both blade styles>> and that is they seem to work much better in serrated (Spyderedged) blades than they do with plain edged blades. At least that's been my personal experience with both the Hawkbill and Reverse S blades both. I'm also becoming convinced that Reverse S blades have far more EDC potential than Hawkbills>> in other words I'm finding a more wide range of practical uses for Reverse S blades.

[bearfacedkiller]

My PE Ladybug Hawkbill and my PE Lil Matriarch are my two go to gardening knives.









My serrated LB Hawkbill makes short work of chicken feed bags.



I know the PE Lil Matriarch is a SD knife but like Lance and a few others I find it a very capable utility blade. One advantage my PE Lil Matriarch has over the Harpy is that is is a little smaller when closed. It is bigger than the Delica but slimmer than the Harpy. I also find the subdued hawkbill of the reverse s easier to sneak into tight places when trying to make pruning cuts with the tip. I also find the belly useful for making some cuts. I sometimes use the edge of a planter box, whiskey barrel or fence post like a cutting board to cut things on and the little belly on the matriarch works well for that.



I have no interest whatsoever in SD knives and bought it just for utility. I believe that largely the mind defines the weapon and if things ever get bad enough I can probably press whatever knife I have on me into service. I carry a sidearm for SD and usually have a folder with a larger blade on me. Since the Lil Matriarch is usually the smaller knife on me and since my smaller knife is usually in a left rear pocket or cargo pocket it would be very unlikely that i would grab it over the larger folder I have in a more accessible pocket.

[Surfingringo]

Like Darby, I bought the lil Matriarch with zero thought of self defense. It was purchased purely as an edc/utility blade and I have thoroughly enjoyed it for that role. I think it should be noted that though the matriarch and lil matriarch both have a reverse s blade, they are completely different knives in application. The shape of the lil matriarch is far less extreme and works well as an edc whereas the regular matriarch...not so much.

[elena86]

Like Darby, I bought the lil Matriarch with zero thought of self defense. It was purchased purely as an edc/utility blade and I have thoroughly enjoyed it for that role. I think it should be noted that though the matriarch and lil matriarch both have a reverse s blade, they are completely different knives in application. The shape of the lil matriarch is far less extreme and works well as an edc whereas the regular matriarch...not so much.

How do you sharpen your pe lil'Matriarch ? I might get one for myself eventualy

[JD Spydo]

Like Darby, I bought the lil Matriarch with zero thought of self defense. It was purchased purely as an edc/utility blade and I have thoroughly enjoyed it for that role. I think it should be noted that though the matriarch and lil matriarch both have a reverse s blade, they are completely different knives in application. The shape of the lil matriarch is far less extreme and works well as an edc whereas the regular matriarch...not so much.

How do you sharpen your pe lil'Matriarch ? I might get one for myself eventualy

I've found that the plain edged, Reverse S blades are done very well with a 204 Sharpmaker. Although I've sharpened a plain edged Reverse S type blade with my 701 Profiles also with good results.

[Joris Mo]

Quite like the "Reverse S" profile, seems quite useful for EDC tasks although I tend to prefer a more common blade shape and don't really carry a knife for self defence. (if I would the Matriarch would probably be my first choice)
The Reverse S also seems a bit like like a reverse Kukri blade shape, another great cutter that's all curvy edge.

[bearfacedkiller]

How do you sharpen your pe lil'Matriarch ? I might get one for myself eventualy

I reprofiled mine on the sharpmaker because it had a slightly uneven grind and it came out great.

Here are two tips that may help.

First, you can always reprofile a knife in sections if you need to. With a reverse S you may end up doing it in three different sections. It is really pretty simple to overlap the sections a little and blend them together.

Second, with this blade shape you want to use the flat for the tip but you need to use a corner for the hawkbill/recurve and either one will work for the belly. I hope this makes sense, :) . I put the rods in on the flats but I hold the knife at a slight angle to the base as I begin my stroke. The blade will still be perfectly straight up and down or perpendicular to the floor but it will not be perpendicular to the base. It will be a couple of degrees off from perpendicular to the base. This basically means that you put the rods in on the flats but angle the blade just enough that you are actually using the corner or more specifically the flat right against the corner. Then as you approach the tip you can square up to the base and get the tip on the flat of the rod. It is much easier to do than it is to explain.

Let me know if that makes any sense.

[elena86]

That's what I call a good advice.Thanx a lot Darby.I'll do my best.

Marius

[Evil D]

Seems to me that whatever a hawkbill can do, a reverse S can do plus more. But, it really comes down to the blade shape itself, since some hawkbills have barely any hook to them at all, while some reverse S blades have barely any belly to them. Basically what you get is a more specialized cutting tool the more you push either attributes one way or the other. More hook on a hawkbill means it'll make pull cuts much better, but it'll be less effective at cutting against a solid object (cutting board for example). The same goes with a reverse S, if you give it too much hook, you may as well not even have that belly because you won't be able to reach the belly without hitting the tip/hook first. At that point an S can't do anything more than a hawkbill can, but if you give the S a moderate amount of hook then it becomes more versatile, but it also becomes less of a specialized cutting tool. It's all a compromise.

[DansGunBlog]

Great convo - I've had my eye on the Matriarch for some time and really just trying to decide between the regular and Emerson wave version. Both as a useful serrated companion to the PE Military and as possible last-ditch self-defense option.

[DansGunBlog]

@Michael - great article! What is your thought on the wave opener vs without in a hypothetical self-defense scenario?

As others have noted, indeed a firearm is generally a far more appropriate tool for self-defense, but for whatever reason you don't have your regular sidearm and you do have your regular carry blades.

So the question is this....

1.) How reliable would you say the Emerson opener method is in an adrenaline fueled situation where motor skills may be impacted... or would you go without the wave option?

2.) And what carry position and extraction grip have you found more effective, again staying with the Emerson opener method? some talk about a lanyard and bead to help you get a positive grip on the knife for full extraction as well.

Thanks!
Dan

[Surfingringo]

Like Darby, I bought the lil Matriarch with zero thought of self defense. It was purchased purely as an edc/utility blade and I have thoroughly enjoyed it for that role. I think it should be noted that though the matriarch and lil matriarch both have a reverse s blade, they are completely different knives in application. The shape of the lil matriarch is far less extreme and works well as an edc whereas the regular matriarch...not so much.

How do you sharpen your pe lil'Matriarch ? I might get one for myself eventualy

I have done what Darby described but I usually just use the corners for touchups. If you use the corners on the tip its almost impossible not to start rounding it. It doesnt happen immediately but it will happen. The advantage of what Darby describes is you don't have to change the rod orientation to use the flats on the tip. If you use that technique though, be careful just to barely move the knife enough to hit the corners instead of the flat. If you move it too much you can affect your sharpening angle.

[JD Spydo]

When it comes to sharpening PE Reverse S blades or PE Hawkbills I find both of them kind of tricky. Like SURF said about using the corners of the 204 Sharpmaker stones works about as good as anything. This is why I would love it if they were to bring back the 701 Profiles and in more grits>> and especially diamond.

But I've been having fairly decent luck using DMT conical diamond rods to remove enough stock in order to do finish work with the corners of 204 Sharpmaker rods. Again it is kind of tricky and like SURF said it's hard not to round off the tip of eithera PE Reverse S blade or a PE Hawkbill blade either one.

I'm really hoping that the upcoming GAUNTLET sharpening system that Spyderco is going to unveil soon will have a remedy for that type of sharpening.

Another method I've had decent luck with is to put a PE Hawkbill in a vise and use a 701 Profile and push the stone inward toward the edge of the blade. I'm sure it will work for a PE Reverse S blade as well.

[Surfingringo]

I am pretty excited about that upcoming Gauntlet! I think the Sharpmaker is the coolest thing since sliced bread so if they have managed to make functional improvements to that sharpening design then I will be one happy camper!!

[JD Spydo]

I am pretty excited about that upcoming Gauntlet! I think the Sharpmaker is the coolest thing since sliced bread so if they have managed to make functional improvements to that sharpening design then I will be one happy camper!!

I think that's going to be the case too SURF because I distinctly remember Sal saying that there were going to be some "cat's eye" stones included in the new GAUNTLET sharpening system>> which in turn should give it more versatility sharpening their Reverse S blades and Hawkbill blades along with many of Spyderco's other unique blade designs along with several of their specialty knives as well.

The 204 Sharpmaker was a long time coming when it hit the market so I'm sure they have covered a lot of bases this go-around.

It goes without saying that Reverse S and Hawkbill blades both pose a lot of challenges when it comes to keeping them sharp. But both Reverse S and Hawkbill do perform well when they are sharp and the time it takes to keep them sharp is worth it.

[Surfingringo]

My best advice on hawkbills, reverse s and even serrated blades is stay ahead of them and don't let them go dull. Regular touchups are fairly simple on all three but bringing a very dull knife back can be tedious.

[bearfacedkiller]

Today is the last day for pics from Amsterdam.
I really hope we get to see a pic of this gauntlet. :)