Is there an updated steel chart?

[paisa777]

Long time lurker, but very few posts. While I love me some Spydies, I don't have much money to spend on all that I want. When I do get the itch, I check on here and read about so many different steels that are available or coming out. Lately it's been the HAP40 that everybody wants to get in on. My question is does anybody have a steel chart that they keep track of? It would really help newbies like myself to figure out what type of steel we should be looking for. Maybe something like below?

Steel Strength Weakness
H1 (PE) Rust proof edge retention
HAP40 edge retention price

[The Deacon]

The charts on Spyderco's website and in the 2016 catalog seem fairly up to date, at least to me. As for more qualitative comparisons, they can be misleading. If steel A holds and edge twice as long as steel B, but takes twice as many strokes to sharpen, using the same equipment, it may be better" for some uses, and worse for others. H-1 is particularly misleading, the edge holding of a plain edge H-1 blade may be lackluster, but the Spyderedge version of that same blade may stay sharp longer than almost all other steels.

[paisa777]

right, I completely understand that. I saw the steel chart on the website but it really just states the elements of it. Doesn't provide a layman's description of it. I really just wanted to see what the differences were with all the steels. I mean, I keep hearing about Elmax, SuperBlue, M40, HAP40 at such. So before I bought a knife with any of these steels, I wanted to see what exactly I was getting.

[The Deacon]

The problem is that many of the "characteristics" we value are dependent on more than just the steel. Hardness, blade thickness, edge thickness, edge angle, even surface treatment, affects them.

[Michael Janich]

One thing you should consider is getting one of the 2016 Spyderco wall calendars. This year's calendar features a fold-out, detachable poster of our 40th anniversary Damascus Native 5. On the back of the poster are three steel charts--or more accurately, one updated chart sorted the traditional alpha-numeric way (the same as in the catalog), and two additional charts sorted by carbon content and chromium content. Since carbon and chromium are primary defining and comparative factors in evaluating steels, we find these charts very useful.

If you look closely on our web site, you'll find they're also included there: http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If you're looking for layman's summaries of the attributes of different steels, one of my personal favorite web sites is this: http://zknives.com/knives/steels/index.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Cool tools and great general comparisons, but as Deacon wisely points out, there's a lot more to a knife blade than steel alone. The execution and design of the blade must also complement the material choice.

Stay safe,

Mike

[can't freehand]

Doesn't provide a layman's description of it. I really just wanted to see what the differences were with all the steels. I mean, I keep hearing about Elmax, SuperBlue, M40, HAP40 at such. So before I bought a knife with any of these steels, I wanted to see what exactly I was getting.

Good idea on waiting before you know more, especially considering the prices of these knives.

Seek out Cliffstamp's posts on steels, both on this forum and his own forum (towards .1 micron). Google is helpful. Though I think Cliff overcompensates in his war against the high-carbide hype machine, understandably, his commentary on the influence of carbide is basically right.

To make a long story short, if you are wanting an all around good steel in a folding knife, just go with Spydie S30V. The only steels in production that will substantially outperform S30V are S90V and S110V (edit: also 10V and similar ultra-Vanadium steels), all the others are marginal improvements, even ZDP-189, much as I enjoy its extreme hardness.

[dreadside]

hope this help's!
it's not a exact science but gives you more or less of an idea

[Blerv]

It's like cooking and the page is just a summarized recipe book. It doesn't list temps and steps either.

Problem is, like cooking, you are going to create varied products depending on the approach with the same ingredients. Knowing something has a cup of garlic vs another with two cups of cilantro will give a general idea of how it tastes and people will form opinions on if it's for them. They still won't know for sure until they take a bite.

My understanding is rudimentary. Doing a little search on "high carbide" and knowing how certain elements like chromium, tungsten, niobium, and vanadium play with varied levels of carbon will help you pick recipes you might want to try and others you won't.

Still, I wouldn't count anything out until you have personally ruled it out. Not everyone uses knives the same way and a little forum buzz doesn't mean much in the real world. You know...CPM-S30V isn't adequate nor is 500hp in a commuter car .

[bpahk]

you should read Phil Wilsons posts on heat treating. The chemical makeup of a steel isn't nearly so important as the heat treat and what it's being optimized for. Take s30v by a custom maker heat treated to optimize edge retention and it may outperform a production s110v blade with the same geometry. But you just might sacrifice some toughness or other quality that's being balanced, but the custom maker will know your intent of use. Production blades are bought by idiots too so the heat treat has to for the masses that may abuse them and you won't get the most of out the steel. The cooking analogy was pretty good in that respect. It's all up to the chef and what he's going for.