ZDP-189 concern

[babtron]

Hey guys, long time lurker...

I revisited my ZDP-189 DF2 after using my SB DF2 for some time. I decided to use my ZDP-189 at work a couple of weeks ago and was using it to unwrap an engine. I was cutting mostly through plastic wrap, bearing paper, regular paper and some zip ties. I took care to not hit anything on the engine itself, but I noticed the edge wasn't holding too well. When I first got the knife, it was the sharpest I've ever received BNIB. I barely used it until this time at work, except opening packages, some paper, etc..

I decided to carry it today and I noticed the edge was definitely not as sharp as when I first got it. It had a hard time cutting through paper and I noticed a small chip and burr towards the tip. I've read that ZDP has some of the best edge retention out there, but mine didn't seem to hold up. I have read it is prone to chipping--no big deal to me.

Now I am definitely not *****ing about it since I can always sharpen it and I love the knife and that slab of ZDP. I even received my new waterstones in the mail today, so this is the perfect time to try them out :D. I was just wondering if this is a cause for concern. Was the edge from the factory too fragile? Is this common with ZDP?

Thanks guys!

[JD Spydo]

One major problem I encountered with ZDP-189 back about 4 years ago>> I was cutting up some tomatoes with a ZDP-189 blade and in my own absent mindedness I forgot to wash it off or rinse it in cold water. As a result the next day it was as though termites were eating it. The edge looked like a minefield and the chemical reaction from the juice of the fresh tomatoes really wreaked havoc with the blade. It was so bad that I sent the knife back to Spyderco for them to inspect it.

They sharpened it and polished the blade again for me and told me to always clean it thoroughly after using. I've taken that advice and not had any problem since then. But I'm here to warn all of you that food acids will do damage to ZDP-189 blades and you always want to wash them.

Now your concern was about "Edge Retention">> All I can say to that is when I sharpened my ZDP-189 blades at 40 degrees on the 204 Sharpmaker I had really good luck keeping the edge sharp. You might want to learn the bare basics of Sharpening. There are 2 books I highly recommend>> the first one being "The Razor Edge Book Of Sharpening" by John Juranitch also there is "The Complete Book Of Sharpening" by Leonard Lee. It wouldn't hurt to study the basics because you are desribing to me an edge that wasn't sharpened properly to begin with. Also the video that comes with the Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker has some valuable information on it as well. Good Luck

[Holland]

The factory edge might just be weak. I usually cut off the factory edge and reprofile my knives. After you sharpen it once or twice i bet it will be fine. Enjoy your new knife and welcome to the forums! :D

[Blerv]

Yea, all factory edges are a bit weak compared to an aftermarket job. Spyderco grinds them nice and sharp but does so with a power belt. The nice thing is they set you up well to sharpen it later (rather than having to hog off a bunch of steel just to put a decent edge on it).

All edges are going to wear as you use them. They chip, roll, dent, abrade on a micro-chip level, or a combination of all these things. ZDP-189 is a VERY high carbon, high chromium carbide steel. It should resist rolling and denting quite well. If it's not chipping on you, at least to a repairable level, it's about the best one can hope for. In this same kind of work I would guess a VG10 or even H1 plain edge would be winded even sooner.

If you want something to keep cutting regardless of how the cut looks you might get a serrated Spydie and try it out. Even a Ladybug SE can be had for like $28 or so. For pull cuts it's really tough to beat them because even when they get "dull" you can saw through dang near anything.

[3rdGenRigger]

The grinding of the factory edge bevel will affect the heat treatment at the very edge, so it should improve with a few sharpenings.

[opusxpn]

I noticed the same thing when I first got my ZDP Endura. It was a weak edge, I hit it on the sharpmaker and it fixed my problem you can even go to put a 45 degree on it to make it stronger but 40 works well enough. It is a high carbon steel I take care of super blue, zdp, s110v and m4 the same I always rinse with hot water wipe dry then wipe the blade with a tuff cloth after use every night or just a finger of cutting board mineral oil and this prevents any type of rusting or oxidation that might happen. When oxidation attacks the first thing that goes is the edge.

[Cliff Stamp]

IIs this common with ZDP?

Nothing should should chip out on paper and light plastics with common sharpen angles of 15-20 dps. It is likely you hit something you didn't realize. If you sharpened it again and repeated the work you are likely not to notice the same consistent behavior.

[bdblue]

The grinding of the factory edge bevel will affect the heat treatment at the very edge, so it should improve with a few sharpenings.

I've wondered about the heating part of it, and I've read before that the edge will last longer after it has been sharpened a few times.

I bought one of the new S110V Manix 2's and tried a very informal test of cardboard cutting with the factory edge. It didn't do very well. I sharpened it myself and tried again, this time it lasted much longer but still not as long as my M4 Manix 2 that I've sharpened.

[The Mastiff]

I'd say Cliff is correct. On Zip ties though I've seen knives that had some tension on the blade just before it cuts through the plastic get moved sideways due to the angle cutting at and just that little sideways movement under tension can cause really small areas of damage. The thinner the edge and higher the steel's hardness the easier it can happen.

Not talking about large half moon chips, just very small areas of edge damage more felt by a fingernail than seen. I just sharpen them out and keep on going. .

If I couldn't explain it very well I apologize. Sometimes I lack the ability to describe things properly.

joe

[noseoil]

I used my new Delica in ZDP to open a picture frame, which had staples embedded in the brown paper. Yep, chipped the blade right out of the gate. I decided it would just "sharpen it up a bit" on a fine stone, wrong! Long story short, it is one hard steel, amazingly so. Don't be surprised if you hear it laughing at you part way through the learning process. You will need a good stone, even strokes, and finishing up with some very light passes to get the edge back. Once you've mastered this technique (give it a week or two) you can sharpen any steel, until then, you have my sympathy.

This is an incredibly hard steel, but the advice given by others is true. Remove the factory edge by sharpening a few times before you find out what all the hype is really about.

[ohcyclist]

You will find a number of threads discussing ZDP sharpening on the forum and like many others here I initially found it frustrating. It requires patience and I find very light sharpening strokes help.

[babtron]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but I finally got around to sharpening this on my Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5000 and it sharpened wonderfully. The most frustrating part was I kept hitting the ricasso :p

I'll see how the edge will hold up in the coming days. Maybe I'll sideline my Dice to home use and play and carry my ZDP DF2 :)

[Jazz]

Keep us posted. My Caly 3 had a very chippy factory edge from whittling wood. I've sharpened it to wonderfulness and it seems fine. I really like ZDP.

[babtron]

It ended up being a ZDP-189 day yesterday. I got around to sharpening my Caly 3 as well for the first time. That thing had an awesome factory edge. It lasted me months of use.

[Knutty]

I hate ZDP-189 because of issues mentioned in this thread. But I've always thought that zip ties were better cut with diagonal pliers than with a knife. It's safer and easier.

[Pyrite]

Every day I get happier and happier with my VG-10.

Gotta admit to a fondness for 154-CM also.

But....then again.... I don't HAVE any ZDP. :rolleyes:

[Knutty]

Every day I get happier and happier with my VG-10.

Gotta admit to a fondness for 154-CM also.

But....then again.... I don't HAVE any ZDP. :rolleyes:

I have 2. One is a ZDP CF Stretch, and I like the CF and the rest too much to let ZDP ruin it for me. The other is a ZDP FRN Stretch which I sold to an idiot who then returned it to me with a damaged clip. I still want to get rid of it but I'm not sure how.

[Gimpeyhand]

I ve got the Endura with the ZDP 189 blade. This was my first Spyderco and is still one of my favorites. It does not like salt water conditions though. After going to a BC Canada Gulf Island cabin for a week on the Pacific it developed rust all over the Spyderco ZDP 189 marking at the base of the blade. ( It never actually went in the ocean ) Easily removed by running it lightly over my leather Strop loaded with green compound. I let it get dull once a while back and it was real tough to get sharp again, even with my sharpmaker and ultra fine Spyderco stone. Now I just give it a few strokes on the strop after it s daily kitchen use and it s been tomato slicing sharp going on at least a year ( with a nice polished edge ). I do have to completely dry it after each use or those ZDP 189 markings will rust again, even with city tap water. This steel is the hardest I ve ever come across, but really holds an edge for a long time with a little maintenance.

[nirvanero]

Not the toughest steel but ZDP-189 is great, just don't let it dull as said. My knives are pretty rust resistant, no problem with tap water at all.