CTS-XHP Sharpening Angles

[Skidoosh]

I'm really enjoying cts-xhp on my mule. It is currently at 40 and is a pretty solid edge. What experience have people had at 30 is it worth it and what do I gain what do I trade away?

[jackknifeh]

I'm really enjoying cts-xhp on my mule. It is currently at 40 and is a pretty solid edge. What experience have people had at 30 is it worth it and what do I gain what do I trade away?

You won't need to trade anything away by going to 30 degrees. You will have MUCH to gain in cutting performance with a 30 degree edge. I'm assuming you have a Sharpmaker since you mentioned these specific angles. I think XHP would be great with an edge bevel of 30 degrees and a back bevel of 23-24 degrees. It's a great steel IMO but my experience with different steels is limited. I think others will agree though. I think if Spyderco would change the base of the Sharpmaker to add an angle setting of 20 or 22 degrees it would be a wise choice. Re-profiling with a Sharpmaker is difficult I understand but once your back bevel was at 22 degrees and the edge bevel was at 30 that would be a mean slicer and the edge would be durable for stuff like cardboard, zip ties, etc. Which knife do you have? The blade shape or grind might change an opinion but the steel itself is up to a 30 degree edge easily I think. If you do have a sharpmaker the only down side is when touching it up at the 30 degree angle it would take longer than if you had a back bevel at a lower angle. But a micro bevel at the 40 degree setting would solve that. The back bevel 30 degree angle would keep the knife cutting better. I think the back bevel being at 30 or lower is really the thing that would improve the cutting performance. The micro bevel would really only serve to speed up touch ups. My opinion only. :) Hope it helps some.

Jack

[kbuzbee]

I agree with Jack. I keep my XHP at 26° inclusive (no micro bevel) and it holds up just fine. 26° slices even better than 30° and the edge seems plenty durable. I imagine 22° with 30° would work at least as well, if not better.

Ken

[kwakster]

I agree with the members above.
I got the edge of my CTS-XHP Manix 2 to buckle when it was sharpened at 25 degrees inclusive (no microbevels used) and i cut into a piece of laminated desktop (while leaning on the back of the blade with my other hand)
Since then i tend to stay on the safe side and keep the edge angle at least 26/27 degrees inclusive.
So far without any problems i might add.

I also found that CTS-XHP keeps an armhair shaving edge longer than S30V, is better corrosion resistant, and also easier to sharpen.

[Skidoosh]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm surprised after I use it and check the edge thinking I need to sharpen it but, nope it's still razor sharp. Having a few more angles on the sharpmaker would be a big help too.

[chuck_roxas45]

Yep, I have the same experience with XHP. Seems to hold a fine edge for some time especially when it's polished. Almost seems like an easier to sharpen ZDP for me. My XHP millie is at around 28° inclusive but I touch it up at 36° inclusive. I did damage the edge a bit when I cut up a lot of limes at the range for a fast and dirty ceviche and forgot to wash it. After around two weeks, I had some rust but also a bit of what looked like pitting on the edge. The pitting on the edge almost looked like chips but had dark, almost black color in the hollows. Little time on the EP repaired it.

[Paulsmp]

The (original) Edge of my Mule XHP dulled faster than I expected (skinned 2 small deer), thought about reshaping the whole edge to 20 inclusive (and polish). Did this on a Kershaw Elmax blade and worked fantastic.
My other two Mules (K390 and Elmax) still have the first Edge and are razor sharp (while the K390 was not used a lot yet).
Do you guys think this is too agressive?

Martin

[jackknifeh]

The (original) Edge of my Mule XHP dulled faster than I expected (skinned 2 small deer), thought about reshaping the whole edge to 20 inclusive (and polish). Did this on a Kershaw Elmax blade and worked fantastic.
My other two Mules (K390 and Elmax) still have the first Edge and are razor sharp (while the K390 was not used a lot yet).
Do you guys think this is too agressive?

Martin

There is nothing special about the original edges on new knives. Spyderco's are normally sharp or very sharp but other than that you never can tell what angle they have. Normally (8 out of 10 or so) they are between 30 and 40 degrees. I think 40 degrees is a high angle for the steels on SPyderco knives. Especially the better ones, XHP included. I think you should try a 30 degree edge. Do you have a sharpmaker or system where the angles are set? I think the basic idea with the SHarpmaker angles is to sharpen at 30 and use the 40 degree setting for touchups. This makes touch ups quick and easy but there is nothing wrong, or too low about a 30 degree edge angle IMO. It may take a while to get the edge down to 30 degrees to begin with but that is normal.

Jack

[Evil D]

Yep, I have the same experience with XHP. Seems to hold a fine edge for some time especially when it's polished. Almost seems like an easier to sharpen ZDP for me. My XHP millie is at around 28° inclusive but I touch it up at 36° inclusive. I did damage the edge a bit when I cut up a lot of limes at the range for a fast and dirty ceviche and forgot to wash it. After around two weeks, I had some rust but also a bit of what looked like pitting on the edge. The pitting on the edge almost looked like chips but had dark, almost black color in the hollows. Little time on the EP repaired it.

Bit off topic but are you saying you feel that ZDP holds a fine edge for long periods of time? If so I'm curious how you sharpen it, because I've had the exact opposite experience. It seems to lose that super fine edge fairly quickly and settle into a working edge that lasts forever.

[chuck_roxas45]

Bit off topic but are you saying you feel that ZDP holds a fine edge for long periods of time? If so I'm curious how you sharpen it, because I've had the exact opposite experience. It seems to lose that super fine edge fairly quickly and settle into a working edge that lasts forever.

Yes, the ZDP on my endura and stretch do hold a fine edge well when it's polished. I strop it with both 3u and 1u paste using worn EP tapes loaded with diamond paste, using the EP. I find that finished that way though, ZDP loses aggressiveness for slicing but will push cut nicely. Having said that, I do prefer my ZDP with a coarser edge these days.

[Chris_H]

Skidoosh,

If you are using a Sharpmaker, don't forget about the grooves in the bottom of the base that can allow you to use the stones as a bench stone. You can put a shallow back bevel on the blade that way then refine the edge bevel using the SM in the normal angle-guided manner.

Bit off topic but are you saying you feel that ZDP holds a fine edge for long periods of time? If so I'm curious how you sharpen it, because I've had the exact opposite experience. It seems to lose that super fine edge fairly quickly and settle into a working edge that lasts forever.

Yes, the ZDP on my endura and stretch do hold a fine edge well when it's polished. I strop it with both 3u and 1u paste using worn EP tapes loaded with diamond paste, using the EP. I find that finished that way though, ZDP loses aggressiveness for slicing but will push cut nicely. Having said that, I do prefer my ZDP with a coarser edge these days.

Like Chuck, I sharpened a Caly Jr. on a DMT Dia-Sharp EEF (8K mesh / 3&#956 and it maintained a wickedly sharp edge for light cutting -- push or slicing -- but it lost some aggressiveness to the edge.

[Paulsmp]

There is nothing special about the original edges on new knives. Spyderco's are normally sharp or very sharp but other than that you never can tell what angle they have. Normally (8 out of 10 or so) they are between 30 and 40 degrees. I think 40 degrees is a high angle for the steels on SPyderco knives. Especially the better ones, XHP included. I think you should try a 30 degree edge. Do you have a sharpmaker or system where the angles are set? I think the basic idea with the SHarpmaker angles is to sharpen at 30 and use the 40 degree setting for touchups. This makes touch ups quick and easy but there is nothing wrong, or too low about a 30 degree edge angle IMO. It may take a while to get the edge down to 30 degrees to begin with but that is normal.

Jack

Thank you Jack!
I do have something similar to a Sharpmaker, but changed the base and added all kind of angles (10, 15, 20, etc...) so 30 degrees is as easy (or as bad) as 20 for the touch-up. The Problem would be the Initial edge Setup. The Stones I have take some time to take material off, so I'd prefer something faster...
I mainly use this mule for skinning and butchering, so the lower the angle the easier to work with (at least for me :) ). Given XHP is as good a steel as supposed, it should still hold the edge, right?

Best: Martin

[bchan]

Thank you Jack!
I do have something similar to a Sharpmaker, but changed the base and added all kind of angles (10, 15, 20, etc...) so 30 degrees is as easy (or as bad) as 20 for the touch-up.

How do you do that? Thanks.

[jackknifeh]

Thank you Jack!
I do have something similar to a Sharpmaker, but changed the base and added all kind of angles (10, 15, 20, etc...) so 30 degrees is as easy (or as bad) as 20 for the touch-up. The Problem would be the Initial edge Setup. The Stones I have take some time to take material off, so I'd prefer something faster...
I mainly use this mule for skinning and butchering, so the lower the angle the easier to work with (at least for me :) ). Given XHP is as good a steel as supposed, it should still hold the edge, right?

Best: Martin

The only thing about cleaning game that may be damaging to the edge would be sepreating bones (socket joints, etc.) Any type of sideways force may tend to chip the edge. I've never cleaned anything larger than a squirrel so that's about all I MIGHT know. Even then though, I think a 30 degree edge on XHP would hold up fine as long as you use the knife like a knife, not a prybar. But your use will be the judge. In your shoes I'd probably sharpen the edge to 30 degrees. Get the knife barely sharp then put a higher degree edge angle on it. 40 or a bit less would be good. Then use it and see how it goes. If you don't have any problems with edge chipping or if you can see the edge rolling (this may be hard to see) you are good to go. I think you will be good. BUT, the thinner the blade and lower the angle is the better any knife will cut. So then if you want, lower the 30 degree "back bevel" to 25 or 26 degrees. This will thin the steel. Leave the edge angle at 40 for now and keep it touched up. After more use (you determine how much), try lowering the edge angle to about 35 or 36 degrees. Pick the angles on your sharpener that are close to these angles. At that point you are probably as low as you want to go to get good performance and not have to worry about the edge getting dull, chipping or rolling quickly. But if you want to try lowering it again go for it. When you start loosing the edge at a given angle just put the edge angle back to the last angle that you had no problem with. Then just use those angles on this knife.

Or I could have just said, yes I thing 30 degrees is fine. :) But if you want the angles lower do it slowly, in steps. Lower is always better as long as the steel holds up to how it is used. :)

Hope this made sense. If you already knew all the lowering an angle in steps and just wanted to know about XHP, I apologize. I tend to get a bit wordy.

Jack

[Holland]

i have my chaparrals at 28 degrees with a 36 degree microbevel and it slices great and holds up to damage just as well

[jackknifeh]

i have my chaparrals at 28 degrees with a 36 degree microbevel and it slices great and holds up to damage just as well

I think that is a good angle default. Possible the improvement in steel quality in the past several years makes lower angles possible under the same conditions as the older stainless steels. Just a thought. I really don't know but those angles work for me. But I don't work hard any more because I'm old and decripid. Add that to my life long laziness and you have me, one useless human. :)

Jack