Let's discuss the Spyderco military h1 "salt" knife

[Surfingringo]

Ok, apologies in advance to anyone who is also a member of bf, because I just started this thread over there and decided I would rather pose this question on spydercos actual forum. So here ya go...

I want to have a real discussion about this knife. If something like this were made available, I would buy two of them immediately! I was hoping to hear some input and have a serious discussion about whether something like this is feasible. I have participated in a few threads lately where the idea was played with, but I really believe this is the kind of knife that would have a fanatical following. My idea is to have the military design (or even better military 2 with 4-way clip). I guess it could have a g10 handle if the hardware was h1 or titanium? I understand that spyderco is not doing ffg with h1, but I would definitely accept a blade with whatever grind was necessary to accommodate h1! From a fisher and point of view I would strongly suggest a combo edge. I have both pe and se in h1 and while I understand the inherent benefits of se in h1, I believe that a boat/ocean knife needs some plain edge too. For example, I always use my dfly instead of my se pacific salt for cutting bait. Those serrations are good for lots of cutting tasks, but a pe works way better on slimy squid and other soft bait. If not a combo edge then at least a 3/4 serrated with at least a full inch of pe at the end.

Ok, that's my idea. I would love to hear others opinion on this knife. Maybe Sal will chime in and give a clue as to whether this could actually happen. ****, I'd be willing to listen to a quote for having one custom made! I believe there is absolutely a market for this knife and I also know that nobody is going to step up and make it besides spyderco. Let's see where this thread goes...sometimes enough small voices can move mountains. .

Lance

[The Deacon]

At the very least, the questions would be whether there would be enough folks interested in a hollow ground Military at a premium price to make such a project feasible. While my total lack of interest in such a knife may influence my opinion, given that it would add less than .2 " of blade length over the Pacific Salt, and cost at least twice as much, I'm thinking not too many would find it an attractive package. A combo edge Pacific might have a better chance of seeing the light of day.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

At the very least, the questions would be whether there would be enough folks interested in a hollow ground Military at a premium price to make such a project feasible. While my total lack of interest in such a knife may influence my opinion, given that it would add less than .2 " of blade length over the Pacific Salt, and cost at least twice as much, I'm thinking not too many would find it an attractive package. A combo edge Pacific might have a better chance of seeing the light of day.

Good point Paul. Not to beat a dead horse on my quest for some bidirectional FRN scales on the Pacific Salt, but maybe this is a good chance to outfit this CE version with an E4-like set?

I'd sure be curious to see an H1 Military though, and I bet that a sprint run of these would fare pretty well (pretty sure I would get one). Not as exciting as the upcoming CPM-Cruwear version!

[mrphotoman]

I do not like the h1 steel at all.

[Donut]

So, what's wrong with the Pacific? Do we prefer a liner lock over a back lock?

The easiest model to make this happen would probably be the titanium military. I don't know how easy it is to make a liner lock out of titanium or H1, but I think the Air is a titanium liner lock.

I'm not sure it would be worth the $200 price tag that I would expect.

[Surfingringo]

So, what's wrong with the Pacific? Do we prefer a liner lock over a back lock?

The easiest model to make this happen would probably be the titanium military. I don't know how easy it is to make a liner lock out of titanium or H1, but I think the Air is a titanium liner lock.

I'm not sure it would be worth the $200 price tag that I would expect.

It's interesting that I always hear this point of view. When people say they like the military or would like one with different steel, people don't say "meh, what's wrong with the endura?" I can't get my mind around why folks want to imply that a Millie in h1 is redundant because the Pacific already exists. It's the same as saying the Military has no use because the endura already exists. :confused:

[twinboysdad]

I would like the idea quite a lot. The problem is getting the knife as close to an existing Millie without requiring anything new cost wise. Can the liner lock be made from Ti or from H1? Would it be as good as the current liner lock (probably not)? Can the screws and internals be made with H1, probably so? So, if you kept the liner lock as is and H1'ed the internals you would lose the "immersed in the ocean" rust resistance but still have a mostly rust resistant Millie. I like H1 in SE and meh in PE. If this knife was not SE or 3/4 SE then I don't see the point. Also should be yellow G10, which I am not sure exists. My suggestion would be H1 SE with an inch of PE in yellow G10 with all the standard hardware making it a good but not perfect salt water knife. I wonder if Spyderco wants to confuse the non-afi customer base who think (rightly so) than H1 equals rust proof and open themselves up to these same people *****ing to the moon and back about their "Salt" Millie being a rust bucket! I like the idea, I like the Millie, I like yellow, I like SE H1, so I am real curious what Senor Glesser will say about this.

I will derail and say that an H1 SE Dodo in yellow G10 would be more feasible due to no liners and the ceramic ball, but I would not want to clean fish with a Dodo!!

[Jay_Ev]

Spydercos H1 knives are completely rustproof. In order for an H1 Military to make that claim, all components of it would also have to be made of rustproof metal. This would not only mean the blade itself, but also the liners, lock, clip, screws, standoffs, washers, lanyard tube, etc. I would suspect doing this would carry a hefty price tag.

[Surfingringo]

I would like the idea quite a lot. The problem is getting the knife as close to an existing Millie without requiring anything new cost wise. Can the liner lock be made from Ti or from H1? Would it be as good as the current liner lock (probably not)? Can the screws and internals be made with H1, probably so? So, if you kept the liner lock as is and H1'ed the internals you would lose the "immersed in the ocean" rust resistance but still have a mostly rust resistant Millie. I like H1 in SE and meh in PE. If this knife was not SE or 3/4 SE then I don't see the point. Also should be yellow G10, which I am not sure exists. My suggestion would be H1 SE with an inch of PE in yellow G10 with all the standard hardware making it a good but not perfect salt water knife. I wonder if Spyderco wants to confuse the non-afi customer base who think (rightly so) than H1 equals rust proof and open themselves up to these same people *****ing to the moon and back about their "Salt" Millie being a rust bucket! I like the idea, I like the Millie, I like yellow, I like SE H1, so I am real curious what Senor Glesser will say about this.

I will derail and say that an H1 SE Dodo in yellow G10 would be more feasible due to no liners and the ceramic ball, but I would not want to clean fish with a Dodo!!

Those are all valid questions, and were the kinds of ideas and concerns I was hoping to toss around here. Another huge concern I can see to bringing h1 steel to a main stream knife like the Millie is dealing with the perception of folks who aren't worried about corrosion resistance. As it is, most anyone who buys a "salt" knife is buying it for ocean/salt/water/high corrosion environments and uses. For the most part, folks like us are willing to overlook the steels shortcomings (no ffg, poor edge retention in pe) because of the massive benefit we get in corrosion resistance. But I could see there being a huge s&@$ storm were they to just throw a h1 blade on a pm2 for example. Whew, people would be squawking and moaning how there knives won't stay sharp!

So, that leaves only two options.
1. Make something and market it strictly as a "salt" knife as a way of controlling perceptions, or
2. Make it in se only so there would be no "performance loss"

Problem is, either scenario greatly decreases the size of your market. Add to that the cost of actually getting the thing designed and into production and...sigh...yeah.

Now I'm starting to bum myself out. Oh well, I guess I'll leave the knife designing up to Sal and company. They've done a pretty good job of making me what I need so far. Who knows, maybe they have considered adding something like this to the salt line. A guy can dream.

[twinboysdad]

Surfingringo,

Before you despair, let me see if this floats your boat...H1 SE GODDARD SPRINT. Absolutely zero reason it could not be produced as it is based on the same lock work and handle as all the Salt series. The FRN molds are already made therefore they are just costing money sitting there. The Goddard is Military-esque to me on so many levels and NONE of the previous objections we discussed apply. So if we can get this in as close to FFG SE as possible, we have your "premium Salt" knife come to fruition! What say you?

[twinboysdad]

http://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco-W ... een--14471

this but with yellow FRN, SE H1 in as close to FFG grind as possible

[Surfingringo]

Sure, I'm in. I'll buy any new salt they make. :) . As I've said before, if they would run some more catcherman knives I'd be all over that! Heck that's the easiest solution. It's a knife they have already made in h1 and it might even be ahead of the imaginary "military salt" on my list! The only reason I don't own one is I refuse to pay "collector prices" for a user.

Oops, I forgot. I want a metal clip on that catcherman. Hehe...I knew it sounded too easy.

[xceptnl]

All good and valid points above. I personally love the concept of an open construction knife with a large H-1 blade and G-10 handles. That being said, I also acknowledge the cost would be fairly high (probably close to the Ti military prices or higher).

[Blerv]

A partially rust-proof knife as some mentioned is less easy to market. H1 also scratches easily, cannot be flat ground on a production basis, is Japanese in origin, and is relatively costly compared to VG10 since the msrp of a Pacific Salt is close to an Endura 4 (flat-ground with liners).

I do like the idea of a larger grippy salt, a new model. I'm not sure how g10 handles moisture but maybe titanium with Krayton inserts?

[twinboysdad]

Probably time for Sal to chime in and give this thing a once over :spyder:

[Pockets]

What about making the Pacific Salt with a G10 handle? It would be a higher end knife, be rust resistant, and the hardware would remain the same.

[twinboysdad]

What about making the Pacific Salt with a G10 handle? It would be a higher end knife, be rust resistant, and the hardware would remain the same.

This is progress and a great idea, but looking for that old Millie 3/4 SE and 1/4 PE edge profile. Great Ideas though

[rodloos]

I don't think Spyderco has made any H-1 folders that weren't back-locks, have they?

I love the Military, and I really like H-1 for certain things, but I'm not sure I'd like a Military that wasn't FFG quite as much. And while I would prefer a replaceable-clip to the FRN clip, I think the Catcherman is great for boating/fishing needs (enough so that I bought 3 of them, a backup-to-the-backup :) ) and you *might* be able to find one at a reasonable price if you are patient. After all the posts I saw requesting a re-release of the Catcherman, I was really surprised they didn't sell very quickly when they did release the USN-green one. Rather than have Spyderco be disappointed with non-selling stock, I did my part to buy my share :) .

I do really like my Pacific for fishing needs also, and am really glad they released a version of the ENUFF in H-1 SE to ease the pain of discontinuing the Aqua. For my kayaking (and actually for yard work too) I find it hard to beat an H-1 hawkbill though, the Tasman, or if you can find it the Spyderhawk. If I get tangled up in someone's old trotline or other rope, the hawkbill will take care of that very well.

[Surfingringo]

Hey rodloos, how do you like your catcherman? And how secure is the frn clip? I carry my truck key attached to my knife iwb in my kayak, so the idea of a flimsy clip kinda scares me.

[rodloos]

Hey rodloos, how do you like your catcherman? And how secure is the frn clip? I carry my truck key attached to my knife iwb in my kayak, so the idea of a flimsy clip kinda scares me.

So far I like the Catcherman. The FRN clip is just OK. My first two Spyderco knives I ever bought, back in the '80s, were a Stainless Steel Economy, and an FRN Endura SE - both with built-in clips. What I considered to be one of the great advances since that time is the idea of replaceable clips :) . I've had clips on other brands of knives get horribly bent or broken, catching the clip on the strings of a hammock, or the arm of a chair.

So I *do* wish the clip on the Catcherman was replaceable, but I understand to save costs they used the same mold as the original Catcherman which had the clip built in. It seems secure enough to me, though I may prefer to keep a lanyard attached to it if trying to use it over water in my kayak. I *think* Spyderco used to offer a replacement type of clip that fastened through the lanyard, for FRN clips that got broken - but then you would be giving up the use of the lanyard hole to actually tie a lanyard to. I don't know if they still offer those, might have to call the SFO about that.

It is a pretty long, thin blade (as a filet knife should be) so it is obviously not a self-defense type knife. It would be too easy to bend/break the blade trying to tickle someone's ribs with it :D . Unfortunately I have yet to clean fish with mine, I haven't caught any fish worth keeping lately :o . Works well enough for food prep, as little as I cook.