Sharpening Stones (Spyderco vs. DMT vs. Others)

[xceptnl]

I have been working hard on my freehand skills for the past 2 years. I still get sloppy on occasions, however I can certainly see my abilities improving greatly with help fro this forum. My wife has a strict "no weapons" policy regarding gifts in our household. This means I can't pic out guns, ammo, knifes, axes, anything sharp basically. This has always been a double-edged sword (pun intended). On one hand, I always know I don't have to smile when a sub-par gift is given to me yet I know a knife is never waiting for me under the wrapping paper. This morning I discovered the loop-hole! I have always been one to bestow jewelry on my better half because she loves it. Now our anniversary (10 years) is upon us and she wanted to get me something nice. It hit me all of a sudden . . . . STONES!

Ok so with a bit of cunning I circumvented the rule and to add a cherry, the 10 year anniversary gifts are either Aluminum (classic) or diamond (modern). I took this to mean High-Alumina Ceramic or Diamond impregnated. You can imagine the look she gave me and the conversation that followed, but either way I won. Not the choice is upon me. I have a budget (maximum) of around $140 for a set of 3 grits. I am willing to have smaller stones to get three vs two. See poll for my current choices, or feel free to post your own suggestion. Thanks all!

[captnvegtble]

I have also been refining my hand sharpening skills over the last couple years and have gotten better with help from this forum.

Unfortunately for your poll, I use both DMT diamond bench stones (coarse and fine), and Spyderco ceramic bench stones (medium and fine), and Spyderco Sharpmaker... so I can't accurately vote. For touch ups I use the sharpmaker. For rebeveling I go from DMT coarse >> DMT fine >> Spyderco medium >> Spyderco fine. This gives me the grit separation that I'm looking for (i.e. DMT "fine" is more coarse than Spyderco "medium" bench stones), and I like the ceramic stone finish.

[Fancier]

The Spyderco products are, in my opinion and having owned both types, the more durable choice. If you want to hog steel off a knife the DMT products do cut really fast, but their performance changes over time and depending on how hard you work the diamonds. The Spyderco ceramics just keep on working day after day, month after month, and year after year.

[Clip]

I've only used the Spyderco M of all those, but I've been pretty happy with it. I wish Spyderco made a coarse for fast stock removal.

So I'm voting for the 302s and pick up a coarse DMT later for serious reprofiling jobs.

[jackknifeh]

I can't vote either because I have adopted a mixture of DMT and Spyderco after trying various stones. One benefit of DMT and Spyderco is you can use them dry. If I were to start sharpening knives for a living I'd get a set of Shapton Glass stones and the sink mounted stone holder. But I prefer keeping it clean for now. The only Spyderco medium stone Ive used is the 5" size. I mounted it to an EP blank. It works fine but doesn't remove enough steel fast enough IMO. So after using DMT (4 years), Spyderco (3 years) and Shapton Glass (6 months) I now have the extra-course, coarse, fine and extra fine grits DMT 6" stones. I prefer larger stones so I also have a fine and extra-fine 8" DMT stone. Most of my sharpening time is for touch ups so I settle for the 6" size in the extra-coarse and coarse DMT grits. Also, having the EP I can reprofile much faster and more accurately with it. But, for the super sharp finish I like free hand. You can get the 4 grits in DMT for around $100. I have the 4 grits in 2 stones in a wooden box but I don't see them sold very often. I got them in what I consider a fantastic deal for around $80 I think.

My recommendation: Go to this site and get the coarse and extra-fine grit DMT stones. Then put the Spyderco fine grit 8" stone in your cart. I believe you can use the DMT coarse stone then skip to the extra-fine grit ok. You will need to spend more time with the extra-fine stone but I think it's a doable progression. I would say get the DMT fine and extra-fine but that leaves you wanting when you need to seriously remove metal. Then use the Spyderco fine grit last. This will keep you in the 3 stones and price goal you mentioned.
http://www.cutleryshoppe.com/dmtdia-sha ... dquot.aspx

In the future you may want to consider getting the fine grit DMT stone to make the progression from coarse to extra-fine easier. I would recommend getting it now if you can but for the minimal set I think the coarse and extra-fine would be better. Or, get the coarse and fine grits. Leave the extra-fine grits for later. I don't think you want to eliminate the Spyderco fine grit. You WANT that stone. Possibly the UF grit also in the future but definately not a requirement when the set is limited.

If you can live with the 6"x2" DMT stones you can get 3 of the grits and the Spyderco fine also and keep it under your goal. Here is a BIG "but". If you almost never reprofile anything leave the coarse DMT off the list and get the fine and extra-fine grits. They truely are a great selection for grit progression IMO.

FINALLY AND THIS IS ESSENTIAL! I'll say this not knowing your experience with DMT stones. They require a break-in period before they start performing like they will for years after they have been broken in. The way I now break them in is I use them (EVERY GRIT) as if I were trying to flatten a water stone. The DMT stones feel much coarser brand new than they will later. The water stone will break them in and ensure the entire surface is broken in. If you break the stones in just by sharpening the entire surface won't be touched. SECOND. You need to make a point of using light pressure when using diamond stones. If you use the same amount of pressure you can use on other types of stones you will ruin the diamond surface. Use light strokes. Trust that the diamonds are cutting and watch the results. This takes a little getting used to because I have always felt more pressure will remove more material. In this case it may not but it WILL ruin the stones.

I hope this helps.

Jack



Spyderco. I have the 8" fine grit stone and love it. I can get GREAT results with it. No finer grit stone is needed IMO. Having said that I will be getting the UF 8" stone sometime soon. Other things will come first because I don't need it. I just want it and will have it. :)

[Donut]

Congrats on winning. :)

I say do a combination. DMT seems coarser than my Spyderco stones. The Extra Fine DMT produces a scratch pattern that is more coarse than my Spyderco Medium stone. I think it has to do with the cutting power of DMT, but you can jump from Extra Fine to Spyderco Fine.

Check out the DMT Duo-Sharp, you can get two grits on (opposite sides of) one 2x6 stone for $40-50. Probably just do the Fine/Extra Fine and spend the rest on Spyderco stones. I dunno if you can get the Fine and Ultra Fine for that price.

[kbuzbee]

As mentioned, Spyderco->more durable, DMT->faster cutting. There's also Atoma diamond plates but they are more $.

They will be a bit over your price range but I really like the Chosera stones. I think they give a better edge than either diamonds or ceramics (but they do wear and need to be flattened) Maybe Jack can say a bit more on the Shaptons as I seem to recall he likes them very much.

Ken

[xceptnl]

FINALLY AND THIS IS ESSENTIAL! I'll say this not knowing your experience with DMT stones. They require a break-in period before they start performing like they will for years after they have been broken in. The way I now break them in is I use them (EVERY GRIT) as if I were trying to flatten a water stone. The DMT stones feel much coarser brand new than they will later. The water stone will break them in and ensure the entire surface is broken in. If you break the stones in just by sharpening the entire surface won't be touched. SECOND. You need to make a point of using light pressure when using diamond stones. If you use the same amount of pressure you can use on other types of stones you will ruin the diamond surface. Use light strokes. Trust that the diamonds are cutting and watch the results. This takes a little getting used to because I have always felt more pressure will remove more material. In this case it may not but it WILL ruin the stones.

I hope this helps.

Jack

Thanks Jack. Maybe a bit more background on my current tools and history will help better. I am very familiar with the DMT stones and how they wear in and out. 10 years ago I was using a Gatco angle system to sharpen my knives (Cold Steel, Benchmade, CRKT). I still have the oil stones that are concaved because I never flattened them. Later I transitioned to the DMT with the Aligner. I have the following pieces for that kit now:

WS4XX (Silver Extra Extra Coarse 120 micron)
A4X (Black Extra Coarse 60 micron)
A4C (Blue Coarse 45 micron)
A4F (Red Fine 25 micron)
A4E (Green Extra Fine 9 micron)
A4EE (Tan Extra Extra Fine 3 micron)
All these in the interrupted diamond. This is my primary tool for reprofiling, but I can use these freehand as well. The short length makes the work long, but it does the job for almost everything.

I also am very familiar witht he Medium (Brown) and Fine (White) Spyderco 701 Profile stones. Basically I am just asking about the continuous DMT. I know I don't want to have to flatten stones and I don't want to have to use oil again. Water is fine so I can take it or leave it.

[arty]

If I need to regrind an edge I use a 1x30 belt sander. I like the Spyderco ceramic stones for stainless steels, but go to other types of stones for simple steels with less chromium. Then Spydercos are convenient for knives and work well. I have too many stones out in the garage, but the ceramics are my go to stones for most knives.

[jackknifeh]

Thanks Jack. Maybe a bit more background on my current tools and history will help better. I am very familiar with the DMT stones and how they wear in and out. 10 years ago I was using a Gatco angle system to sharpen my knives (Cold Steel, Benchmade, CRKT). I still have the oil stones that are concaved because I never flattened them. Later I transitioned to the DMT with the Aligner. I have the following pieces for that kit now:

WS4XX (Silver Extra Extra Coarse 120 micron)
A4X (Black Extra Coarse 60 micron)
A4C (Blue Coarse 45 micron)
A4F (Red Fine 25 micron)
A4E (Green Extra Fine 9 micron)
A4EE (Tan Extra Extra Fine 3 micron)
All these in the interrupted diamond. This is my promary tool for reprofiling, but I can use these freehand as well. The short length makes the work long, but it does the job for almost everything.

I also am very familiar witht he Medium (Brown) and Fine (White) Spyderco 701 Profile stones. Basically I am just asking about the continuous DMT. I know I don't want to have to flatten stones and I don't want to have to use oil again. Water is fine so I can take it or leave it.

Great. Much easier to recommend now. The continuous DMTs are great IMO. The only benefit of the corrogated stones is for the metal particles to stay off the stone by falling into the holes. That's my understanding. I bought the corrogated 8" stones a while back and didn't really like them but love the continuous ones. I keep them clean while sharpening just buy using water (when I want to). So, given you know about DMT products, grits, etc. I think two DMT continuous stones of your choice(coarse thru extra-fine) and the Spyderco fine grit would be great. If there are any holes in the progression you can fill them in later with one more stone of whatever you think you are lacking. Good luck.

[xceptnl]

I think two DMT continuous stones of your choice(coarse thru extra-fine) and the Spyderco fine grit would be great. If there are any holes in the progression you can fill them in later with one more stone of whatever you think you are lacking. Good luck.

Alright Jack, now I am even more confused. I can get the following by compromising the size slightly to get more progressions.
Using you link (I already planned to buy from Jeff anyway).

DMT D6CX - Double Sided Dia-Sharp Continuous Diamond Bench Stone - 6" x 2" - Coarse/Extra-Coarse
DMT D6EF - Double Sided Dia-Sharp Continuous Diamond Bench Stone - 6" x 2" - Extra-Fine/Fine
Ceramic Bench Stone 302UF - ULTRA FINE w/Polymer Storage Case (8" x 2" Ultra-Fine)

All this for $4 more than I had planned on spending. This will allow reprofiles faster correct?

Also to Ken, I have looked into the Atomas because of Cliff's review however they just are not in my budget rigth now.

[jackknifeh]

Alright Jack, now I am even more confused. I can get the following by compromising the size slightly to get more progressions.
Using you link (I already planned to buy from Jeff anyway).

DMT D6CX - Double Sided Dia-Sharp Continuous Diamond Bench Stone - 6" x 2" - Coarse/Extra-Coarse
DMT D6EF - Double Sided Dia-Sharp Continuous Diamond Bench Stone - 6" x 2" - Extra-Fine/Fine
Ceramic Bench Stone 302UF - ULTRA FINE w/Polymer Storage Case (8" x 2" Ultra-Fine)

All this for $4 more than I had planned on spending. This will allow reprofiles faster correct?

Also to Ken, I have looked into the Atomas because of Cliff's review however they just are not in my budget rigth now.

I agree with your selection 99%. The one thing I'm unsure of is the jump from DMT extra-fine to the Spyderco UF. I can go from the DMT EF to the Spyderco fine and see the results of a finer grit scratch pattern after the Spyderco stone. Give me a minute and I'll put a scratch pattern on an edge with my DMT extra fine then use my Spyderco UF triangle stone to see if it will work. If it works it should about eliminate any scratch pattern from the DMT EF. I'll post again in a few minutes.

[xceptnl]

I agree with your selection 99%. The one thing I'm unsure of is the jump from DMT extra-fine to the Spyderco UF. I can go from the DMT EF to the Spyderco fine and see the results of a finer grit scratch pattern after the Spyderco stone. Give me a minute and I'll put a scratch pattern on an edge with my DMT extra fine then use my Spyderco UF triangle stone to see if it will work. If it works it should about eliminate any scratch pattern from the DMT EF. I'll post again in a few minutes.

Thanks Jack. The only reason I am looking to skip the Spydie Fine is because I have that in the profile if I must have it. Otherwise I will fill in the gap later. I will standby.

[jackknifeh]

Thanks Jack. The only reason I am looking to skip the Spydie Fine is because I have that in the profile if I must have it. Otherwise I will fill in the gap later. I will standby.

Your selection seems to work fine with a short test. I put a scratch pattern (more of a haze actually) on a bevel using the DMT EF stone. Then I stroked it on my UF Spyderco rod and it polished it up very nicely. I was happily surprised. Add the fact that you already have the fine grit profile it looks like your plan is a winner. Now I'm wanting my new Spyderco UF bench stone more now than I did a few minutes ago! THANKS A LOT!!! :D

[Evil D]

I'm far from a freehand expert, but I did play around freehanding my S30V Leek on my Edge Pro Shapton glass stones, and I was able to put a ridiculous edge on that knife (really impressed myself because it's been decades since I even tried freehand). They're a bit small for freehand work, and I don't really know how easy it would be to use them with a larger knife with a big belly, but I didn't have much trouble since the Leek is almost a wharnie. I did set the bevel with the Edge Pro beforehand and had used the knife a few times and was having problems getting the EP set up to actually hit the entire flat bevel (because it's down to 20 inclusive so the bevel is super wide) so I said screw it, lets see what I can do freehand. It was enough that I've considered getting some bench stones, but then again this knife didn't cost me much money and I wouldn't be heartbroken if I scratched it up and messed up the bevel. I'm not sure I would feel as confident freehanding one of my sprints.

[jackknifeh]

I'm far from a freehand expert, but I did play around freehanding my S30V Leek on my Edge Pro Shapton glass stones, and I was able to put a ridiculous edge on that knife (really impressed myself because it's been decades since I even tried freehand). They're a bit small for freehand work, and I don't really know how easy it would be to use them with a larger knife with a big belly, but I didn't have much trouble since the Leek is almost a wharnie. I did set the bevel with the Edge Pro beforehand and had used the knife a few times and was having problems getting the EP set up to actually hit the entire flat bevel (because it's down to 20 inclusive so the bevel is super wide) so I said screw it, lets see what I can do freehand. It was enough that I've considered getting some bench stones, but then again this knife didn't cost me much money and I wouldn't be heartbroken if I scratched it up and messed up the bevel. I'm not sure I would feel as confident freehanding one of my sprints.

I have the Shapton Glass for the EP also. Five grits from 500 to 8k and have to agree with you on the stupid sharp edges they give. Of course the 6"x1" EP size is as expensive as other larger bench stones. Some are even double the price. If I ever have more money than I know what to do with I'll get a set of them. In my limited experience they truely are a stone species unto themselves. Even if I were a go-zillionaire though it would still be a waste of money for me. I just don't have enough knives to sharpen. The ones I do have don't get dull fast enough either. Just don't use them enough. BUT, for sheer sharpening joy the Shapton Glass is a hard stone to beat. After I get the Spyderco UF stone I may splurge on an 8k Shapton Glass bench stone. There's no "justification" for it, especially on my budget. Would you believe me if I said that would by my first purchase withough financial wisdom? :rolleyes: I didn't think you would. :)

[jackknifeh]

exceptional (your spelling is too difficult :) ), I played more with the progression from DMT EF to the Spyderco UF rod I have. Now I believe for the UF stone to do the job it is capable of you will need to spend significant time with it after the DMT EF. I determined this after looking at the edge under 30x magnification. Before I just looked at it. I don't know how suited for a reliable test the 1/2" wide stone is combined with my skill at free hand. I still like your shopping list but wanted to pass this along. I think you may use the profile stone more than I did before. As you said you can get the Spyderco fine stone later.

Oh yeah, happy anniversary. :)

[GMArthur]

I only free hand sharpen now. My progression is DMT coarse - DMT fine and then Spyderco medium. I rarely go with the white stone anymore. I find the brown stone gives me a great working edge.

[xceptnl]

exceptional (your spelling is too difficult :) ), I played more with the progression from DMT EF to the Spyderco UF rod I have. Now I believe for the UF stone to do the job it is capable of you will need to spend significant time with it after the DMT EF. I determined this after looking at the edge under 30x magnification. Before I just looked at it. I don't know how suited for a reliable test the 1/2" wide stone is combined with my skill at free hand. I still like your shopping list but wanted to pass this along. I think you may use the profile stone more than I did before. As you said you can get the Spyderco fine stone later.

Oh yeah, happy anniversary. :)

I really don't think this will be an issue. I may opt to buy the 306UF vs the 302UF to give myself maximum working surface. I may go back later and add the medium and fine benchstones later. Also if I get those double-sided DMTs, I am getting the base as well. Any other alternate recommendations for a base?

[jackknifeh]

Any other alternate recommendations for a base?

I assume you mean the DMT base for $13.99. I have the one below but it's twice the price. I don't know about the DMT base because I've never used one. The one below is $30. I really like it because it holds every stone I have superbly. The 6" and 8" DMT stones and the 8" Spyderco stones. The Rubber ends create enough traction thay you don't really need to clamp the stones. It also won't slide around on anything you sit it on. To be honest I think if I had two chunks of rubber to sit under a stone they would work just as well. I saw on USAknifemakers.com a 12"x12"x5/8" thick piece of rubber like they use in horse stalls. It's described to be used for knife handle material and the whole piece is only $2.50. I bet you could use this to make a great stone holder. Add a couple of threaded rods and nuts and you have it. Or just cut some pieces and stack them to get the height you want. One stack at each end of the stone. It wouldn't be pretty but I bet it would work. If I had it to do over I'd try it out. I would at least call DMT to find out the versatility of their base I think. Or maybe someone here has one and will chime in.

Stone holder at chefknivestogo.com
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/nastho.html

Horse mat at USAknifemakers.com
http://usaknifemaker.com/horse-stall-ma ... -x5-8.html