Climate Change, Global Warming or New Ice Age?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What are your thoughts on this everyone? I have read and heard many views and opinions on the whole matter. Some claim we are due for a coming ice age and that we have simply been in a warmer spot between two ice ages or one large ice age, and others claim the Earth is warming up and eventually the Earth will be tropical or subtropical. Which is it or is it a mix of these? Also, to what extent does human activity effect it? I read one book by a man claiming the climate is changing and it is due to radiation changes from the sun and stars and that the volcanoes release far more carbon and other materials into the atmosphere than all of man's industrial capacity combined.



On another thread here a poster showed pictures of a massive snow that hit South Africa, snow with palm trees. That is shocking.

[noseoil]

"Global Climate Change" is just another in a series of manufactured crises which mankind feels a need to impose on themselves. The temperatures go up & down, that's called "normal" in scientific jargon. It is like taking a knife edge which is dull, assuming all knives are the same and then creating a crisis to match this scenario. Only government(s) and ruling parties can save us from this problem. "We've got to fix Social Security" is another. Who created it and so who needs to fix it?

[SolidState]

Oh no,
Here come the sad displays of the level of scientific literacy in the USA.... Also, please be aware that valuing the opinions of those outside of science about what science says is like listening to Palestinians telling you about Israelis or vice versa.

You either believe in the law of conservation of mass, and vibrational modes in molecules coupling to light of resonant energies, or you don't. The problem is, those things exist and flourish even if you don't believe in them. Also, virtually EVERYTHING that you use in your daily life from cellphones to the carbides in your knife are measured based upon those two principles, so to not believe in them makes you kind of a luddite. Contrary to popular, media-driven misinformation, the "scientific community" is NOT in disarray about this topic. It is supported by over 90% of the scientific community, and if you don't count people who form their conclusions prior to their hypotheses (creation "scientists") the number shoots up to over 99%.

It is a tough topic to breach with people because it requires people to accept culpability for problems that primarily exist in an invisible, gaseous state, and it requires us to do something about how we gather and harness energy. Being that the average American has no clue how energy is gathered, produced, transformed, and utilized - it is hard to have this discussion in this country.

Sadly, it's only going to get worse as we continue to plunge into the 30s among industrialized nations in science and math. The real question is whether countries like China - whose politicians statistically know more about science than ours - not doing anything about it is less moral than our politicians doing nothing.

Either way, seven generations from now our descendants will not be looking at this time with pride. They will look at us as troglodytes, luddites and rubes because that's what we are as a culture. What chaps me is that marketing has made the rubes feel that the cognoscente are the rubes. It is an amazing marketing ploy that seems to be very effective ^^^^^

[Blerv]

I don't see it as something to worry about.

Even if we play a large part as a world, how many countries will actually do anything about it? Among those countries how many people (common folk) actually impact that decision rather than large companies that will do whatever they want anyways?

So basically, if we do have a large part in it can we even realistically the damage that is being done? Everyone dies someday whether by heart disease or an ice age. :p

[noseoil]

SolidState: Thanks for your informed tongue-lashing. It must be wonderful to have the incredible wealth of knowledge you have and the gift of prose to accompany it as well. Since the scientific community is nearly 100% in agreement, I guess you'll just have to chalk me up to the ignorant and uninformed. I'm sorry, but I won't live for seven generations to see how right you are and how wrong I am.

I still remember the first "Earth Day" in which we were all going to freeze to death in the next ice age created by our waste products by the year 2,000. Since that model is no longer holding water, and global warming isn't working as projected, we are now facing the marvel of "Global Climate Change" and all of its horrors. Thanks, but I'm not buying into it.

Mother Nature is still pretty good at licking her own wounds.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Mother Nature is still pretty good at licking her own wounds.

Yes she is, and after she has rid herself of the idiots and abusers that we are, she will continue to chug along. And maybe eventually more intelligent life than we are will develop.

Greed and ignorance are what rule now. And while I'm not really ever one to get preachy on a topic. The fact is that unless everyone starts demanding better from the huge conglomerates that run the world, things are going to get far worse and quickly.

I have always been a proponent that the last couple thousands years have been the warming cycle between ice ages, but I also agree that we are causing changes to the environment that are happening faster and with less predictability then they should be happening.

[defenestrate]

In short, the greenhouse effect is a proven and known quantity, humanity has released more of these gases than the Earth likely would have without us (this is contentious, think of how we don't allow for natural fires and the daunting results in California right now), and we don't have enough data to prove what will happen, or whether we have achieved the energy manipulation levels to steer the Earth in one direction or another, or which way would be best, or whether we should steer it at all.

I am of a fairly DIY/rural group who thinks that if you reuse what you can, consume what you can without packaging, allow waste to compost instead of fill landfills, etc. that you are on the right general path and the political ideology needn't play a part in that. Just honest clean living, when plausible.

[noseoil]

I still believe what Bucky Fuller said on the subject. The real pollution on the planet isn't our byproducts, waste or energy consumption. It is the humans.

[BAL]

Yes she is, and after she has rid herself of the idiots and abusers that we are, she will continue to chug along. And maybe eventually more intelligent life than we are will develop.

I'd say that this earns a +1.

[noseoil]

"Also, virtually EVERYTHING that you use in your daily life from cellphones to the carbides in your knife are measured based upon those two principles, so to not believe in them makes you kind of a luddite." This seems to be an an hominem attack, due to the use of the "you" which I can only assume is aimed in my general direction.

Curious that perhaps a mirror would illustrate the penchant for hypocrisy enumerated in this list of energy-consuming and coveted items:
My s: ZDP endura, zdp delica, orange delica, Para 2, Delica II, delica wave trainer, 2 x Swick 2, SPOT, stainless Jess Horn, Snap-it, Lava, Custom & American Gray Baliyos, Smallfly+trainer, Szabofly, Rock Salt, 2 x damascus mules, orange dodo, ss poliwog, Kiwi3, Caly 3.5 Superblue, Caly 3.5 VG-10, Temperance 2, Caly3 Damascus Collection

Currently seeing most pocket time: 3.5

Dude, lighten up, enjoy life and smell the roses. It takes a man to make a room silent.

[Clip]

I am of a fairly DIY/rural group who thinks that if you reuse what you can, consume what you can without packaging, allow waste to compost instead of fill landfills, etc. that you are on the right general path and the political ideology needn't play a part in that. Just honest clean living, when plausible.

I'm with defenestrate. And you need a good knife to support this type of thinking.

[bh49]

This topic is highly politicized and I believe shouldn't be discussed here, just to avoid trouble.

is like listening to Palestinians telling you about Israelis or vice versa.

I think that you shouldn't bring this up either, some people will not take this lightly.

[enduraguy]

I don't buy it. The ozone ain't affected by humans either. Us tiny insignificant creatures have no affect on the planet that it cannot eventually recover from. The planets climat has changed many more times than we know over the however many centuries. Egypt was once a lush marshland type of land once with frequent rain fall. Google " water erosion great sphynx". We will all be ok and nobody is coming back any time soon....they would have made it back by now

[.357 mag]

It is a high of 71today. Record high and we had a record low 2 weeks ago. Last year this time we broke 15 straight record high. Ill believe all this ice age stuff when I see it. Just let me know when to start building my igloo.

[Evil D]

Well, I for one think it's rubbish.

Posted while burning old hairspray cans over an old car tire fire while idling my Mustang on race gas.

I just want you all to know, no offense, but when the world turns to full on Mad Max mode, I'll be coming to steal your gas/rape your women/generally pillage everything. HAIL LORD HUMUNGUS!

[noseoil]

"HAIL LORD HUMUNGUS!" What he said.

[The Deacon]

Earth's atmosphere and climate are changing, just as they've been changing for several billion years. That's a scientific fact. OTOH, the degree to which humans have contributed to the rate and direction in which that change is currently headed are, at best, theories. I've lived long enough to have seen more than one scientific theory overturned. Not to mention that, even if humans are responsible for a meaningful percentage of the changes now occurring, given the current rate of population growth and science's talent for increasing human longevity with no thought of the consequences, we'll run out of fresh water and food before it changes enough to really matter.

[Bladekeeper]

This guy sums it up for me perfectly it has colourful language so please be aware before you open link.
I hope this isn't against the forum rules apologies if it is .
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=OlAcHjNb ... lAcHjNbiyE

[The Mastiff]

I can agree with Deacon on a great deal.

I also know a zealot on a bandwagon when I see one. The earth has been much hotter in the past. It's been much colder as well. All without any help from man. The CO2 levels have been higher and lower as well. Water vapor also. Etc.

Garbage in, garbage out should be familiar to most here. So much of this AGW is based on pure garbage data that it needs a do over. The fact that the political left has latched onto it as a way to reach into peoples pockets on a massive scale doesn't help the science, or it's perceived conclusions either.

Big do over!

[Monocrom]

This again??

The last time we had one of these topics it turned into pretty much a giant cluster f...

****, this topic is so predictable, I'm waiting for a certain member to find it and make his usual lengthy posts about how all of it is true, how we should blindly give up our freedoms to "save the planet", and how he's a centrist instead of a liberal.

It's gotten old and predictable. Like playing through a short, free, online, video game all over again for the 337th time; without a random level generator. You know there's a health pack just behind the zombie with a hole in her chest who appears behind the same door. You know what the crappy access code is in order to get the other access code to unlock the hanger. You know where the chain cutter is located. You know under which desk the water-pump is located. You even know that your M16 is worthless because the guy who programmed the game didn't bother to beta test it.

So, before this topic goes horribly downhill yet again . . . I'd just like to say that my views on this subject haven't changed since the last time this topic was made during the very recent past.