Zero Gound Spydies

[MachSchnell]

Just curious about Full Flat Ground knives.... For example the Paramilitary 2 has a rather large secondarily bevel when we, the consumers receive them. But they must have started life with a near zero grind.

I think it would be sweet to own a FFG knife (like the paramilitary 2, etc) before that secondary bevel gets put on (or rather taken off,) and then grind away minimal material when necessary.

Though I do realize that this would be a nightmare for the warranty and repair department, and it would cause a lot of skewed opinions from average Joe's chipping and thrashing such a thin keen edge. But if it were taken care of it wouldn't be too bad to not completely destroy the edge.

Just a thought :cool:

[JacksonKnives]

There's no "edge" on the blades at all 'til final sharpening; they're blunt without that secondary bevel. Spyderco *could* run a few 0-grinds off with some tweaks to the tooling setup, I imagine, but as you say the appeal would be limited to a fairly small (however vocal) group of hair-whittlin' enthusiasts.
It's quite possible to do yourself; not easy, but possible. With a sturdy, coarse-diamond bench stone it wouldn't take you nearly as long as it would take to wait for Sal to make some.

[Sequimite]

Just curious about Full Flat Ground knives.... For example the Paramilitary 2 has a rather large secondarily bevel when we, the consumers receive them. But they must have started life with a near zero grind.

No, except for the Bushcraft, all the Spydies have a blunt flat edge before they are sharpened which requires a bevel. I'm guessing the thickness of the edges before sharpening is in the area of .5 to 1 mm.

[Pekka]

Puukko's blade is full flat ground.

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=726

Pekka

[razorsharp]

Just curious about Full Flat Ground knives.... For example the Paramilitary 2 has a rather large secondarily bevel when we, the consumers receive them. But they must have started life with a near zero grind.

I think it would be sweet to own a FFG knife (like the paramilitary 2, etc) before that secondary bevel gets put on (or rather taken off,) and then grind away minimal material when necessary.

Though I do realize that this would be a nightmare for the warranty and repair department, and it would cause a lot of skewed opinions from average Joe's chipping and thrashing such a thin keen edge. But if it were taken care of it wouldn't be too bad to not completely destroy the edge.

Just a thought :cool:

They seem to be around 0.5ish mm before edge is put on. I make some of my grinds thinner on a belt grinder :D

[Blerv]

The closest thing to a zero grind is the puukko and folding puukko in the works. Spyderco sells knives to the masses, a thin zero grind would be more a liability than boon for most.

[kbuzbee]

Just for reference, a "typical" Spyderco would come in somewhere between 6° - 10° inclusive, depending on blade thickness and width. Most folks who try thinning out their edges seem to start having issues with chipping and/or rolling around 20°. I took a thin kitchen knife to 18° and it slices like a razor but it needs touched up for every use.

Yes, with the right steel and gently used a blade could survive but as a general use, real world cutting tool..... I don't think so.

Ken

[Donut]

Bushcraft is zero ground.

Maybe make the forum knife a zero grind. :)

[ABX2011]

The not-yet-released Nilakka has a zero grind.

[The Deacon]

Bushcraft is zero ground.

Maybe make the forum knife a zero grind. :)

But it has a flat saber grind, not a full flat grind.

In addition to creating a relatively fragile edge I'd imagine there are a couple other points against zero edge FFG for Spyderco. Maintaining one as a zero edge grind means sharpening the entire flat of the blade. Not that hard with large stones, but not really going to work using a Sharpmaker and not something the average buyer would want to be doing. Plus, if done, it will remove the :spyder: logo from the blade after a few sharpenings.

Forum knife is the one place it might make sense, they're pretty much an "afi only" item and few see actual use so whatever grind they have is more for show than anything and they few folks who turn them into users would likely know what they were getting themselves into.

[Cliff Stamp]

A full flat grind would have an angle of about 2.5 dps, on a high carbide steel that is going to be very fragile. There are however a lot of people who do such regrinds if you want it. Tom Krien is very popular for it, Wilson used to do it but doesn't any more and there are scads of YT guys who do regrinds. Of course the warranty is gone if you do such a modification.

[Ankerson]

Just for reference, a "typical" Spyderco would come in somewhere between 6° - 10° inclusive, depending on blade thickness and width. Most folks who try thinning out their edges seem to start having issues with chipping and/or rolling around 20°. I took a thin kitchen knife to 18° and it slices like a razor but it needs touched up for every use.

Yes, with the right steel and gently used a blade could survive but as a general use, real world cutting tool..... I don't think so.

Ken

There is a big difference in thinning out the edge and having the blade reground, regrinding is the preferred method if it's done properly.

I have tested knives in high alloy steels at high hardness at .005" behind the edge at 10 DPS and they held up well, but I am talking about customs here for the most part.

I do have a Para 2 in 20CP that is around .009" behind the edge that I use, keep that one at 15 DPS.

Start thinning out production blades getting them down into that sub .015" range and one will start having issues depending on the steel/HT/HRC.

It should be noted that those said knives become slicers, but can take harder use if the user can follow the proper technique of keeping the spine inline with the edge in use.

As the blades get thinner the HRC should go up to take advantage of the compression strength of the steels that could be used.

[Ankerson]

A full flat grind would have an angle of about 2.5 dps, on a high carbide steel that is going to be very fragile. There are however a lot of people who do such regrinds if you want it. Tom Krien is very popular for it, Wilson used to do it but doesn't any more and there are scads of YT guys who do regrinds. Of course the warranty is gone if you do such a modification.

Phil still grinds his knives pretty thin in the .010" range (I have a few of his that are well under that), but that's him doing it and with his HT and tempering processes and tweaking until he gets just what he wants out of it. :D

But we are talking about Custom knives made by one of the Legends in the knife industry. :)

[Cliff Stamp]

He still grinds his knives that way but I don't think he does regrinds anymore, I doubt it is worth his time primarily.

[Drkknight614]

A zero grind would only work on certain knives. A Para 2 would be to thin IMO and would chip and roll too easily. A knife I really want to see with a zero grind/convexed edge is the Lionspy.

[Blerv]

A zero grind would only work on certain knives. A Para 2 would be to thin IMO and would chip and roll too easily. A knife I really want to see with a zero grind/convexed edge is the Lionspy.

It certainly would fight against the whole, Parattitude :) . Tough knife, grippy handle, strong lock, etc.

It's always funny when someone tries to figure out the warning tag on an old Civilian or Matriarch...

"What do they mean about it not being a utility knife? Can I EDC this?"

"Yea, but if you break the tip nobody will feel bad for you."

[Ankerson]

He still grinds his knives that way but I don't think he does regrinds anymore, I doubt it is worth his time primarily.

Nope, he doesn't do them anymore as you said. :)